Those their right hands possess verses

[Sarah]

Peace

I have some questions about this...

We all know humans, male or female have a soul right? So we're all souls in either male/ female bodies. The bodies aren't really us, it's the soul. The body is just the outer shell.

We know we shouldn't just view someone as their body because that's objectification. Also, men do not 'possess' women and neither do women 'possess' men. Humans do not OWN/ POSSESS other humans. We belong to God, right?

So why are women talked about here in terms of possession? Some websites even state that it also refers to men...

[brook]

Peace

I have some questions about this...

We all know humans, male or female have a soul right? So we're all souls in either male/ female bodies. The bodies aren't really us, it's the soul. The body is just the outer shell.

We know we shouldn't just view someone as their body because that's objectification. Also, men do not 'possess' women and neither do women 'possess' men. Humans do not OWN/ POSSESS other humans. We belong to God, right?

So why are women talked about here in terms of possession? Some websites even state that it also refers to men...

Peace Sarah. I would like to make 2 points:

1.Men also seem to be talked about in terms of possession. Please refer to كَاتِبُوهُمْ in 24:33.
2.As a matter of fact the possessor is one person's oath like in 33:50 or several people's oaths like in 24:33.
Your oath makes you resposible rather than possessor.
 

[Cerberus]

My understanding of the Quran as a book is that it had a purpose, not to abolish slavery directly or create some sort of cultural reform in Arabia but to remind people of what is essential in life. And to do that in a manner that they could understand best and fits their norms. Though their norms when you look at them from today's perspective seem ridiculous because we have evolved.

Therefore Quran in my opinion does contain elements of the culture of Arabia of the 7th century. Including patriarchal elements and violent elements.
It addresses things that were once the norm of the people the quran was revealed to, so nothing surprising here. But the core of the message can still be grasped if we abstract it away from these details. With philosophy.

As for the first part of your post I agree, I do believe we are divine beings, the sexes are for the bodies that is going to decompose in this earth, like every other creature.

[huruf]

This possession things seems indeed to be a demoniacal possession in deed.

If the Qur'an meant possession, why bother to Go into the trouble and tangle of right hands or left hands, why not leave at malaka, that would be sufficient possession all right.

Those who see in the expression ma malakat ayman... seem to be the ones possessed by demons, their own demons.

Right hands, right hands... Who is somebody related to the right hand as opposed to mere mulk or left hand?

Mamalakat aymanukum is those to whom you are a benefactor, mamalakat aymanuhum it is those to hum they are a benefactor.

Devil possession is an evil condition and I doubt that the devil has any right hand which could be of benefit for anyone.

Beware of the obssession wiht possession.

Salaam 

[good logic]

Besides , if GOD wanted to talk about our possession the Arabic expression is "Ma Malaktum" not "Ma Malakat Aymanukum"!!


I DO NOT SEE WHERE OUR "POSSESSION" COMES INTO IT?

So, Aymanukum, the one who has the possession is not us. It is a social duty i.e "What we are responsible for".

In simpler term, What you are responsible for is a duty towards others that serve your cause and you serve their cause as guardian or spouse or workers or ?.
I would call them "rules" of helping people to coexist/live in harmony.
For example, are we saying our children are our possession?

GOD bless.
Peace.

[huruf]

Just something to point out, dear good logic: "ma malaktum" would be what you possess, not whom you possess. Ma has got absolutely necessarily be a thing, it cannot be a person, a person would be man. Therefore nobody is possessed, save the obssessed with possession. Now, what could be possessed by the right hands of somebody? The most sure hting would be good deeds, meritorious actions to which you bind yourself.

The whole thing really is off track and once again one has to be shocked by the contrived destruction of Qura'nic grammatical logic and moral logic. Anything goes, making things into persons, making hand dissappear... It is dismal... And the fault is not fo some seventh century
weakness, about which we mostly know absolutely nothing about, whereas we talk as if had leaved for years in a place called seventh century. Could we not become more normal, even if it more boring than this phantastic runaround with dissappearing hands, persons turned into things, and all the beautiful adornments made to Qur'an so that it is more fun than just moral and spiritual things which really do not make for much excitement.

Yes I am being sarcastic and I think there are good reasons for it.

Salaam

[good logic]

I agree sister with your analysis.
We do not even possess ourselves. Look at our bodies, have we any control/possession of any of the organs?
We try to gain control/possession by using artificial things like drugs....etc to control our muscles /aches ...But in the end we have absolutely no control!
GOD bless you sister.
Peace.

[zigazigha]

Try reading this https://thefatalfeminist.com/2017/12/20/the-oath-possesses-your-right-hand/

[Novice]

Just something to point out, dear good logic: "ma malaktum" would be what you possess, not whom you possess. Ma has got absolutely necessarily be a thing, it cannot be a person, a person would be man. Therefore nobody is possessed, save the obssessed with possession. Now, what could be possessed by the right hands of somebody? The most sure hting would be good deeds, meritorious actions to which you bind yourself.

Salaam sister huruf

I think you need to reassess it in the light of 70:29-30

وَٱلَّذِينَ هُمۡ لِفُرُوجِهِمۡ حَـٰفِظُونَ (٢٩) إِلَّا عَلَىٰٓ أَزۡوَٲجِهِمۡ أَوۡ مَا مَلَكَتۡ أَيۡمَـٰنُہُمۡ فَإِنَّہُمۡ غَيۡرُ مَلُومِينَ


And those who guard their private parts
except for their spouses who are under their oaths so they are not blamed ones.

[Mazhar]

Quote from: huruf on May 24, 2019, 03:06:34 PM
Just something to point out, dear good logic: "ma malaktum" would be what you possess, not whom you possess. Ma has got absolutely necessarily be a thing, it cannot be a person, a person would be man. Therefore nobody is possessed, save the obssessed with possession. Now, what could be possessed by the right hands of somebody? The most sure hting would be good deeds, meritorious actions to which you bind yourself.

Salaam sister huruf

I think you need to reassess it in the light of 70:29-30

وَٱلَّذِينَ هُمۡ لِفُرُوجِهِمۡ حَـٰفِظُونَ (٢٩) إِلَّا عَلَىٰٓ أَزۡوَٲجِهِمۡ أَوۡ مَا مَلَكَتۡ أَيۡمَـٰنُہُمۡ فَإِنَّہُمۡ غَيۡرُ مَلُومِينَ


And those who guard their private parts
except for their spouses who are under their oaths so they are not blamed ones.

Or those houses the keys of which are possessed by you people, [Refer 24:61]

The verb is Transitive Perfect. At most of the places the object is elided being otherwise explicit in the context and by the collocates.
مَا مَلَـكَـتْ أَيْمَٟنُـهُـمْ

: It is found in Arabic text as Particle and a Noun. The noun is found as [ما الموصولة] General Relative Pronoun; or an Indefinite Noun modified by an adjective. General Relative Pronoun means that relative noun which is used for Being and inanimate; masculine and feminine; singular, dual, and plural. A Relative Pronoun is followed by a sentence which relates back to it, most often with a Pronoun named as [الْعَائِدُ] that links back to it. Here, in the above sentences, it is General Relative Pronoun as it is followed by a Relative Clause comprising a complete Verbal Sentence.