Author Topic: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?  (Read 1420 times)

Lost

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Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« on: May 09, 2019, 07:59:58 PM »
I see while reading through various posts in this forum that this is still the claim advanced by most members. Let me inform you that you are late in the matter, this theory has long been discredited by genetic evidence. Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Khazarian Jews, at least not in any significant way. The contribution from Khazarians is minimal. I would urge everyone to stop propagating such pseudo-scientific non-sense.

Instead, genetic data clearly shows that Ashkenazi Jews are a mixure between middle-eastern men (mostly old Jews but not only them) and european women. I can go on and prove this to you but I doubt anyone here is knowledgeable enough about population genetics to understand. Therefore, let me keep it simple : ashkenazi jewish Y-DNA(ie paternal) lines derive mostly from the Levant, this is explicitely proven by many lines, naming only a few is enough to clear the case beyond the shadow of a doubt. E-Z17699, E-Y14891, J-Y3088,  R-Y18855 are some of the undeniable ones. Most of these lines are totally inexistant outside of middle-eastern populations.

On an autosomal level, thus taking into account the overall ancestry rather than uniparental lines only, the same euro-mideastern profile emerges, causing Ashkenazim to cluster close to South Italians on a global plot.


Emre_1974tr

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 01:50:22 PM »
All Jews are Turkic. And a little Indian...


quincy

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2019, 11:57:08 AM »
The inevntion of the Jews got exposed years ago by people who are called "Jews" themselves. Banu Israel is not a religion but a culture and nation, not of a caucasoid race but of negro, the hebrews. Open the table of nations in the Torah and you will see that Ashkenaz was not from the line of Shem. If you name a state ISRAEL then you need to expect that people will look at the scripture to see whats going on. The khazarian Khaganate had a mass conversion to a religion called "Judaism" which in fact was talmud based, to be exact, Rabbinic Judaism as those hold authority and are considered to be a filter to the Torah and the Tradition. The Khazar khaganate had not only Ashkenaz originated people, there were also Magogans and others from the line of Japhet. Khazar was the ruling tribe, who were Magogans.

Even some israelis know that, but cant do anything about the established lies by the zionist movement.
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Jane

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2019, 12:17:30 PM »
I think Semites count as Caucasian, it's a skull shape not skin colour. I agree the Ashkenazi are fake Semites though.
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Emre_1974tr

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2019, 04:53:02 PM »
All Jews are Turk.

Jane

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 01:30:58 PM »
Not all Turks. A mix of ethnic groups, about 4 distinct ones I heard. Most don't have a significant amount of 'Semitic blood'. Just pointing this out would be considered a hate crime in my country though. Weird.
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quincy

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2019, 03:23:07 AM »
Not all Turks. A mix of ethnic groups, about 4 distinct ones I heard. Most don't have a significant amount of 'Semitic blood'. Just pointing this out would be considered a hate crime in my country though. Weird.

Germany?  ;D Actually you can even go to jail for questioning the mainstream narrative regarding WW2.
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Emre_1974tr

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 04:50:56 PM »
All Jews are TURK.

Jane

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2019, 02:10:07 PM »
No, Britain. Not as bad as Germany yet. Questioning the holocaust is defined as a hate crime I think but they haven't started locking us up for it yet.
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Lost

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2019, 11:13:27 AM »
People, I advise you not to talk about what you do not have any knowledge of. I gave you some genetic insight about the nature of ashkenazi jews, yet you keep rehashing stupid debunked non-sense, such as the Khazarians and Turks or whatever. When DNA comes into play, it is no longer a matter of debate...

quincy

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2019, 01:09:47 PM »
Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of Ashkenaz. Most dominant Y-DNA Haplogroup in the northern caucasus today is J-M172, that Haplogroup can be found in the Jewish DNA as well. White Jews are from the northern caucasus who have no genetic connection with semites - but of japhetic origin. No one is saying that ashkenazi Jews are Khazars. The problem is that all white Jews are considered to be ashkenazim - etymologically speaking Ashkenazim comes from the hebrew bible in the Table of Nations, one of the Sons of Japhet - and not Shem. Etymologically speaking is shemite someone who is from the line of Shem.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/JewishDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults (page 2)

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ingush/default.aspx?section=yresults
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quincy

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2019, 03:45:12 AM »
Some citizens of Israel are very aware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wKrbPsAJDc
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Lost

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2019, 11:38:35 PM »
Big LOLZ, dont talk about a subject you're ignorant about. J2-M172 is 30,000 years old and has many many sub-clades spread all over the place from Bangladesh to the Atlantic. J1-P58 is found at a rate of 20% among Ashkenazim and it is the typical neo-semite marker. Don't even get me started on E-M123 and all the rest. Ashkenazim are only half european and it's from the maternal side mostly. They cluster close to southern Italians.

Shemite, japhetite and hamite, these are all non-sense.

Emre_1974tr

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2019, 04:04:19 AM »
All Jews are Turk.

Yes they are Turkic. But they also have some Indian genes.


عوني

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 04:34:56 AM »
There are studies that contradict each other all the time when DNA tests is done on Jews mainly because Jews are diverse people like anyone else and Judaism being a religion also. To discard the Khazar study though would be ridiculous since it is not the only study that points out that (however it should not be used to determine an entire population's ancestry no study should), infact some of these studies exist in this link, notice the various different results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

I'd think that Jews are like any people which is diverse just like Palestinians (Palestine has been home for dozens of peoples from the Israelites to the Arabs which has created a diversity through interracial marriages), so some studies on Ashkenazi would point out to Middle Eastern ancestry while others to European. Judaism is a religion that has existed for thousands of years with people coming and leaving the religion (an example being the Khazar empire that adopted Judaism at a certain time point). If I recall it right the Khazar study was also done on Jews who were already from the region (that is countries like Georgia and Armenia) which makes sense. Doing the study on for example French Jews or German Jews would maybe not give the same results but at the same time it would not disregard the idea of these Jews having European ancestry either. Many DNA studies (autosomal) on Jews are carried out by comparing their DNA to those of the local population in the Levant (Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Palestinians and Samitarians) when determining ancestry. 

Then at the end who cares what ancestry many Jews have seriously? Even if the majority of them 'descended' from the Israelites (which they most likely do not) it is not really relevant and does not make a difference. I suppose the Khazar theory is only considered relevant for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict even though it is not 'ancestors' that should be deciding who is right but instead things such as land ownership. We know that Arab land ownership was a lot higher than Jewish land ownership in every city prior to the state of Israel.




Lost

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2019, 09:49:40 AM »
There are studies that contradict each other all the time when DNA tests is done on Jews mainly because Jews are diverse people like anyone else and Judaism being a religion also. To discard the Khazar study though would be ridiculous since it is not the only study that points out that (however it should not be used to determine an entire population's ancestry no study should), infact some of these studies exist in this link, notice the various different results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

I'd think that Jews are like any people which is diverse just like Palestinians (Palestine has been home for dozens of peoples from the Israelites to the Arabs which has created a diversity through interracial marriages), so some studies on Ashkenazi would point out to Middle Eastern ancestry while others to European. Judaism is a religion that has existed for thousands of years with people coming and leaving the religion (an example being the Khazar empire that adopted Judaism at a certain time point). If I recall it right the Khazar study was also done on Jews who were already from the region (that is countries like Georgia and Armenia) which makes sense. Doing the study on for example French Jews or German Jews would maybe not give the same results but at the same time it would not disregard the idea of these Jews having European ancestry either. Many DNA studies (autosomal) on Jews are carried out by comparing their DNA to those of the local population in the Levant (Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Palestinians and Samitarians) when determining ancestry. 

Then at the end who cares what ancestry many Jews have seriously? Even if the majority of them 'descended' from the Israelites (which they most likely do not) it is not really relevant and does not make a difference. I suppose the Khazar theory is only considered relevant for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict even though it is not 'ancestors' that should be deciding who is right but instead things such as land ownership. We know that Arab land ownership was a lot higher than Jewish land ownership in every city prior to the state of Israel.



There is no such thing as ''many of them descend from israelites'', the thing is they're all partially israelite/levantin genetically. And no the difference between a Jew from France and a Jew from Germany is very small, Ashkenazim expanded recently in history throughout Europe, they all come from a small original founder community and are very inbred. Jews are like that, they like to keep it between themselves. And I said as well that Ashkenazim (and sephardim as well) are about half-euro.

I completely agree with your last paragraph though. It is retarded to think your ancestors are what make this or this land yours.

عوني

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
All of them descending from the Israelites is literally impossible. It is common sense. Are you saying that nobody in history has ever converted to this religion? If yes then no not "every of them descend" from the Israelites. :) The study that talked about Jews who came to Europe and married people of different ethnicity doesn't imply that the Jews like to marry from their own as you say and I highly doubt that because interracial marriages have been common among every people including Jews and Arabs. The Khazar Empire adopted Judaism, now that is from what we know about documented history now take into consideration of undocumented converts as well. Judaism is a religion that has existed for thousands of years with people coming and leaving the religion which is why the idea of everyone having "Israelite ancestry" becomes problematic at this point.

Anyway I also took a DNA test many months ago and then uploaded my raw DNA data to another site that uses the same algorithm and method that was used in the Khazar study (created and developed by Dr. Eran Elhaik) and I got this which agrees with most of my other results (red is maternal and blue paternal):



Emre_1974tr

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2019, 04:50:17 AM »
All Jews are Turk.

Yes they are Turkic. But they also have some Indian genes.

And all Western Peoples are Turkic.

Kyrate

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Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews really descended from Khazars?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2019, 02:45:54 PM »
I am an Ashkenazi-Levite Jew, and in my experience and to my knowledge, there is no 'pure' Jewish 'race' or nation.

Ultimately though, the two things everyone have in common are being human and descended from Adam and Eve.

Jews have DNA from many nations as we were scattered throughout the world, as indeed are many peoples.  Judaism is a religion that can be practiced by Jew or Gentile; Gentiles can convert to Judaism, and are seen as fully Jewish, but Jews are not strictly speaking one nation, as we are a mix of many and all nations.  I am sure that many Jews are descended from the Khazarim, but Jews are a mix, and not a singular 'race'.

Sorry if I can't reply in this thread; I see a box at the top saying something.  Sorry also if my post isn't clear, correct or is insulting, none of which are my intention to cause.