Author Topic: How do you understand fasting  (Read 3594 times)

Soittosondhani

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2019, 01:29:01 AM »
Searching the root we find that 'Saom'  is derived from 'SMM'. "SMM' means 'deafness' and 'deaf and dumb', so Saom should mean observance/practice of deafness and silence. Its surprising how a derivative of SMM turned into 'fasting' in the long run!

Cerberus

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2019, 02:25:22 AM »
Searching the root we find that 'Saom'  is derived from 'SMM'. "SMM' means 'deafness' and 'deaf and dumb', so Saom should mean observance/practice of deafness and silence. Its surprising how a derivative of SMM turned into 'fasting' in the long run!

In reality I found that the moment you open your mouth (or use your keyboard) a lot of things happen within, how one's words can serve to fulfill own's ego and give a feeling of false existence. And this you can witness clearly if you're trying to maintain a true state of fast.

Same could be applied to your hearing. Listening to idle talk, getting carried away in entertainment etc....

But in reality it's all about emptying the senses so that you can hear and see better.

Quote
"You must fast!" said Confucius. " Do you know what I mean by fasting ? It's not easy, but easy ways do not come from God "

"Oh," said Yen Hui, " I'm used to fasting! At home we were poor. We went for months without wine or meat. That is fasting, is it not ?"

"Well, you can call it 'observing a fast' if you like," said Confucius "but it is not the fasting of the heart"

"Tell me," said Yen Hui, "what is fasting of the heart?"

Confucius replied:  "The goal of fasting is inner unity. This means hearing, but not with the ear; hearing, but not with the understanding; hearing with the spirit, with your whole being.  The hearing that is only in the ears is one thing.  The hearing of the understanding is another.  But the hearing of the spirit is not limited to any one faculty, to the ear, or to the mind.  Hence it demands the emptiness of all the faculties.  And when the faculties are empty, then the whole being listens. There is then a direct grasp of what is right there before you that can never be heard with the ear or understood with the mind.  Fasting of the heart empties the faculties, frees you from limitation and from preoccupation.  Fasting of the heart begets unity and freedom."

Note that in the same manner that this was reported from Confucius, a rather similar message was reported from Muhammad.

Quote
?Many people who fast get nothing from their fast except hunger and thirst..."

So yes I think you had some truth in what you managed to conclude from your roots words but that is obviously not all of it. And I quoted Confucius just to emphasize that it's a universal practice.

mekaeel7

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2019, 03:09:57 AM »
It has been a very long time since I have replied or visited this site and I don't remember how to properly reply but Soittosondhani's post today served to buttress the position that I have understood from my reading of the Qur'an! The only two examples of fasting that I have discerned are the fast of Mariam, the mother of Isa and the fast of Zakharia, both which consisted of  NOT talking! As has been mentioned in the Qur'an, fasting has been prescribed for us as it was prescribed for those before us, then it only makes sense to observe the fast as described in the Qur'an by those before us! It is my thinking that somewhere along the line, Muslims in imitation of and influence of the Judeo-christian practices, adopted their view about the matter but per the example of Mariam, she observed silence in her vow to fast for Al Rahman!

Mohammed.

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2019, 09:14:09 AM »
peace,

(there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2:217, exception -2:194,179).

Or think in this way:
When there is no compulsion in religion(2:256), WHY God commands to kill/fight the polytheists after the sacred full moons/months have passed?

9:5
"So when the sacred full moons/months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point..."


peace,

For those (e.g. those in polar regions) who find it difficult to fast(or for doing any other forms of worship), these verses may have the answer,
[4:97-100]
That those the angels make them die, unjust (to) themselves, they said: "In what you were/have been? "They said: "We were weakened in the Earth/land." They said: "Was not God's Earth/land wide/spacious so you emigrate in it?" So those, their shelter/refuge (is) Hell, and it was a bad/evil end/destination.
   
Except the weakened from the men, and the women, and the children, they are not able (of a) solution (means) and nor they be guided a way/path.

So those, may be God that He forgives/pardons on them, and God is often forgiving, (a) forgiver.

And who emigrates in God's sake, he finds in the earth an escape, and a wealth/an abundance, and who gets out from his house emigrating to God and His messenger, then the death overtakes him, so his reward had fallen/been placed  on God, and God is a forgiver, merciful.
So are you saying that God forgot to mention any exclusions while ordering fasting (if saum = fasting) and left it for us to find out how to fulfill the command in polar regions.

For example, suppose one born in an atheist family, as he attains maturity, realizing the truth and comes to the truth. Will he then continue what he followed before(what his atheist parents taught him)?
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Mohammed.

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2019, 09:21:13 AM »
The only two examples of fasting that I have discerned are the fast of Mariam, the mother of Isa and the fast of Zakharia, both which consisted of  NOT talking! As has been mentioned in the Qur'an, fasting has been prescribed for us as it was prescribed for those before us, then it only makes sense to observe the fast as described in the Qur'an by those before us!
This is really striking...

So, how it would be if No talking + No drinking + No eating?
Or only Not talking?

-God is The Merciful-
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Wakas

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2019, 12:02:38 PM »
Is the word siyam/sawm used in Quran for Zakariya?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Iyyaka

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2019, 12:13:28 PM »
Is the word siyam/sawm used in Quran for Zakariya?
I think Siyam/Sawm is a volunteer act from the quran perspective..that's why God don't use the word Sawm for Zakariya because Zakariya had a correction from God for not having faith. The difference is that in the Bible Zakariya canno't speak during a long time (8 days after the baby came into this world) while it is only 3 days in the quran.

Wakas

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2019, 01:20:10 PM »
I think Siyam/Sawm is a volunteer act from the quran perspective..

Upon the mumineen I don't think its voluntary.

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=183#(2:183:1)

...prescribed/decreed upon you...


Also discussed here, due to use of fidya:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.html
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Iyyaka

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2019, 02:00:27 PM »
Upon the mumineen I don't think its voluntary.

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=183#(2:183:1)

...prescribed/decreed upon you...


Also discussed here, due to use of fidya:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.html
Your translation 3 is correct  :) so it is an alternative so you have the choice..Again in the story of Zacharie no word sawn is evoked.
option 3 :
 "3) "...and upon those who are capable of it* (i.e. sawm) a ransom feeding a poor person..."
*with the implication being they choose not to.
The only problem for me here is that god don't talk about sawm but Siyam. Not the same.

Some comments for the word Kataba :
The verb kataba here doesn't mean to prescribe in the sense that Islam-religion understands it: that is to say, an obligation, but retains its original meaning: to recommend, to invite to..
But ok for kitab = prescription but prescription is not really necessarily an obligation. Lexically, the kataba root originally means to write, hence for kitab written, book, missive. It is in this context that the verb kataba means, by extension, to prescribe, that is, to put in writing, and that kitab is therefore valid for prescription: what has been written. Moreover, the term to prescribe derives from the Latin praescribere is formed of pre (before) and scribere (to write), from where the sense to write in head, to put in title, to put forward. Also, by definition, any prescription / kitab is not mandatory, it is only a written recommendation. It is the same in English where, for example, the medical prescription is non-binding. It is therefore only under the influence of the legal exegesis proper to the objectives of Islam that the meaning of divine obligation has been superimposed on the term kitab.

So we have the Following structure in 2 parts :
(1) ayats 2:183-184 => General recommendation to make "SIYAM" with a ransom/redemption if u don't want and you have the capability to do it but it is strongly recommended...
(2) ayats 2:185-187 => Ok now you have choosen to do "SIYAM" so the word "fidya" doesn't appears in this part and god details the contents of the siyam (quran etc.)

Peace

Mohammed.

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2019, 02:20:00 AM »
Took in wrong sense

Yes, both(2:187 & 19:26) are about sawm, but the problem is that the sawm of Maryam(19:26) does not mentions anything which is in 2:187 ( i.e. drinking, eating & sexual acts), then how it can be the same? Likewise, sawm in 2:187 does not mentions anything which is in Maryam's sawm. Therefore I do not think about a connection between them.
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]