Author Topic: How do you understand fasting  (Read 1864 times)

Sarah

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How do you understand fasting
« on: May 04, 2019, 10:07:00 AM »
Peace,

so Ramadan's starting tomorrow right...

But some people say that the Qur'an doesn't teach to fast a whole month every year but rather, to fast a few day/s every month...

Youtuber Quran Centric talks about this...

What do you think?
😃👀✋

Wakas

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2019, 10:46:40 AM »
I haven't reached any conclusions on this topic but this is a reasonable article:
http://islam-and-muslims.com/timing.html

Doesn't mean I agree with all of it.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Noon waalqalami

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2019, 11:32:35 AM »
peace, it's the entire moon cycle after solstices i.e. north and south hemispheres.

2:185 شهر shahru/moon cycle رمضان ramadan (heat) الذى the one انزل descends فىه in it القران the qur?an/recitation هدى guidance للناس to the humankind وبىنت and clear signs من from الهدى the guidance والفرقان and the criterion فمن so who شهد shahida/witness منكم among you الشهر l-shahra/the moon cycle فلىصمه falyaṣum'hu/so should he/said person abstain/fast it ومن and who كان be مرىضا illness of او or على on سفر journey فعده faʿiddatun/so count من from اىام days اخر other ىرىد intended الله the god بكم with you الىسر the ease ولا and not ىرىد intended بكم with you العسر the hardship ولتكملوا and to complete ye of العده l-ʿidata/the count ولتكبروا and to magnify ye of الله the god على on ما what هدكم guide you ولعلكم and perhaps you تشكرون thanks giving

likewise, if wrong make it up on days other (hence evens out) or feed the poor.

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/185/handschrift/163


brook

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2019, 07:06:35 PM »
I haven't reached any conclusions on this topic but this is a reasonable article:
http://islam-and-muslims.com/timing.html

Doesn't mean I agree with all of it.

Ayman is right: SHAHR is full moon.

One of the proofs is the fact
that in the 365-day timespan between summer solstices there are 13 "shahr"s,
such as from summer solstice 2018 to summer solstice 2019.

If shahr was the whole lunar cycle lasting 29.5 days, all 13 of them would add up to 384 days
and they would not have enough room in the 365-day long time span.
They do in God's order; that is, all 13 "shahr"s have room in the 365-day time span
because they are each a full moon.

Another point is that it is impossible to fast the whole 29.5-day long lunar cycle
because God says  "Whoever of you witnesses the shahr shall fast it (2:185);
that is, you will witness the shahr first, and you will start fasting it AFTER that.
But when you witness the so-called Ramadan crescent in the evening,
the first day of Ramadan is already gone without you fasting it.

In order to cover up this fact
they claim*
that the Islamic cycle of a day begins with the setting, not the rising of the sun.

But their claim is ridiculous
because the crescent rises a few minutes after the sun and voyages in the sky towards the west
but it is not Ramadan down on the earth.
God reigns in the skies but fails on the earth?

_________________________________________________________________

* https://abdurrahman.org/2009/09/09/the-islamic-date-hijri-date-starts-after-maghrib/


amin

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2019, 09:17:42 PM »
The need of fasting comes with balancing our body cycle, since long time Humans had unknowingly seen the benefit of fasting, as it improves their  surviving capabilities and strength.
The day and time are all rituals and depends on the local customs and also for the convenience of selecting a period etc.. Some people here prefer to fast completely or partially on  new moon days.

Mohammed.

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2019, 05:30:36 AM »
peace,

If shahr = the whole lunar cycle, then it already have number of days in it, i.e. ~29.5 days.
But the Qur’an says fast ‘ayyamn ma’doodat’(2:184), and according to Qur’an, the term ‘ayyamn ma’doodat’ is used for ‘10 days’ (in 2:203, Qur’an mentions ‘ayyamn ma’doodat’ for Hajj days, and from 2:189 & 196 Hajj days are 10.
So fast for ‘ayyamn ma’doodat’ = fast for 10 days.

And as I understood, Ramadan will not occur in Al Shahr Al Haram, because

Note bold part,
9:2 and 9:5 have to be reconciled, as discussed above, but ALSO in 9:3 it clearly states the announcement of treaty acquittal took place on the day of the greatest HaJJ. Now, it doesn't matter what one understands by "day of the greatest HaJJ" but the point is it was announced during a HaJJ period, meaning it is 4 months amnesty from then on.
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610235.msg421590#msg421590

1)So the 4 full moons are for Hajj, since there is already sawm in Hajj,(for those who cannot find offering -2:196) Ramadan(sawm) cannot occur in Hajj (Qur’an does not mentions such a condition of interpose).
2) Summer can’t be a restricted period since 9:81 speaks about going for fighting in the heat, (there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2:217).
[if this is about fighting the idolaters who broke their treaty, then the time prior to this hot time (summer) would be al shahr al haram]
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself-17:36.
"Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, the Merciful. And that My punishment is a painful retribution." [15:49-50]

Novice

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2019, 01:04:37 PM »
....فمن so who شهد shahida/witness منكم among you الشهر l-shahra/the moon cycle فلىصمه falyaṣum'hu/so should he/said person abstain/fast it.....

Brother Noon how to abstain/fast AL-Shahra?


Mohammed.

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2019, 08:48:01 PM »
1)So the 4 full moons are for Hajj, since there is already sawm in Hajj,(for those who cannot find offering -2:196) Ramadan(sawm) cannot occur in Hajj (Qur’an does not mentions such a condition of interpose).
For example 2:184&185 says special cases/situations(illness, travel) for postponing the sawm in Ramadan,but it does not mentions Hajj/sawm in Hajj as a condition/situation.

Quote
(there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2:217).
Exception is there (2:194,179)
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself-17:36.
"Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, the Merciful. And that My punishment is a painful retribution." [15:49-50]

imrankhawaja

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2019, 11:51:08 PM »
2:187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray yourselves so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God's boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His signs clear to the people that they may be righteous

RED now its lawfull in night to approach women.. (days of soum)
GREEN it was clear before the current law people use to sexually approach their women due to the human nature of sex hunger .
BLUE its bit tricky  eat and drink(consume) ?  either its general food or sex hunger in both cases do it untill the changing of sky colors..
BROWN complete the fast untill night ( do not sexually approach them untill night)
NAVY even when you are (akifoon in masjid) do not appraoch your women.. (this point need discussion)

all that time the only restriction in all of the verse is to stop doing sex in day light hours ..

now lets see what is eat and drink either its food or just a idiomatic term used for enjoyment..

let say وكلوا واشربوا = consume/enjoy/get satisfied fully it can be anything .. food , sex, travelling, drinking wine, riding horse, living in posh houses, cloths wearing...

so you can enjoy fully anything of it and idiomatically we use this word ..

according to the context the consumption is regarding sex , so before the dawn do it like 3 4 or 5 times so that you get fully satisfied with sex hunger so finish that sex hunger until the night...  :rotfl: :brickwall: (sorry guys for detailing it according to my own lens)

now sometimes the answer of your problematic points lies with in next verses...  we are hunting our BLUE point right now

lets put it on test and see what next verse is saying...

2:188 And do not تاكلوا eat your money between you unjustly by bribing the decision makers so that you may eat a part of the money of other people sinfully while you know!

the exact same root is used there for eating or consuming or enjoying or taking .... تاكلوا

so with respect to that the blue point is clear now.. with cross referencing of quran..

there are some parts of world where  sunlight hours are long like hell its illogical to be hungrey for about 20 hours
if you are hungry your mood will get off , then you start doing trouble.
if you are hungry you try to dishonest with your duties at work.
if you are hungey its difficult to do work that required continious energy like labour work in hot desert..
lot more things..

NOTE (all these are my personal understandings everybody need to verify it as per 17:36)

i just highlight the point what i have with fasting such a long hours

Cerberus

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Re: How do you understand fasting
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 05:42:04 AM »
Quote
if you are hungry your mood will get off , then you start doing trouble.
if you are hungry you try to dishonest with your duties at work.

Yes it's true that this is the effect. It's like a junkie. A slave.

No truly good person is good because they're well fed, sexually and/or emotionally fulfilled and the weather is great.Take away those things and you have the real person.