Author Topic: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman  (Read 593 times)

amin

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 03:02:49 AM »
Yes its more difficult and its not only muslim women but women all over world has issues. Financial independence, education, backed by social support will help overcome some of the issues. A society that makes women suffer will see negative results.
Get out of the religious shackles, its not so easy, but there should be a way... there are examples in Quran how Mohammed came out of those and do you think such Islam will make people again fall into such mean things like what to eat, how to dress and live as a different sect with all freedoms restricted?.

huruf

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2019, 05:02:45 AM »
Anything is called instinct.

The fact is that the instinct in human and also in many species is overriden by culture asdquired traits by education and upbringing. It is well known in animals. Kill the Alfa female in a wolve pack and you destroy the whole pack because the Alfa female does the upbringing of the younger.

So that is the complete denial of instinct because we might say there is a contrary instinct that brings in culture and upbringing.

Most of sexual aggressions are nto derived form instinct, but from a power quest which in humans is very much culturally induced. Sexual aggression is nto the product of sexual instincts or need of reproduction but an Ibliis urge to overpower others, nothibg instinctual but shaytanic. In fact far from being instinct that power urge is today by the media and education promoted and induced through the moto of "success" linked to being more powerful than others. If you are powerful everything is approved of you. Ther eyou have all the invaded and destroyed countries. Who is punishing the abressors, hypocritical. If they keep up the show of appearnaces even if everybody sees through, they still get the go by.

Nothing, instinct, everything shaytanic inducement which has nothing to do with isntinct.

Many of those who commit sexual aggressions "through instinct" in fact are quite capable of abstinence if aggression is going to turn bad for them. no trouble at all, but none whatsoever in controlling themselves when they see they are getting something bad ins exchange. Most women know that extremely well.

Salaam


Cerberus

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2019, 01:42:46 PM »
Instincts according to Freud: "mental images of bodily needs, expressed in the form of desires."

Where do you think the desire for power comes from ?
An example:
"Testosterone (main male sex hormone) primes several instincts, especially sexuality; also dominance, manifest in self-affirmation, the urge to win over rivals, to dominate a hierarchy, and to respond to violent signals in men, with weakening of empathy."

It's true that fear overrides most other feelings, probably because it's tied to the preservation of life (survival). But we're still talking instinct here.

If it weren't for fear of repercussions a lot of people would have committed purely evil crimes.
Just look at how people ruthlessly use words to hurt each other, specially under anonymity over the internet. If you can hurt and dehumanize someone out of anger or hate or whatever reason using words, then under specific circumstances you could go as far as murdering them...
But God knows all this and knows what's in people's hearts. So the only thing left for us is self purification (and self knowledge first or foremost)

huruf

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2019, 03:42:08 PM »
And the instinct to protect and the instinct to educate. Either everything is instinct and all insteincts are bad, either we in fact do not rely on instincts bt on culture. Freud had culture inbedded in him. Testosterone is not allpowerful nothing other learnt things cannot control. Everyboy has testosterone, but some people exploit it to allow themselves things otherwise they would not get away with, because testosterone o temperament get some excuses, but in fact those who indulge in it use it deliberately when Instinct would not push them to those excesses.

And the ninstict to love also exists, right? And the instinct to smile also exists.

People have some tendencies that are shaped by culture, included Freud and all others.

People are pulled strongly by pleasure, that is for sure, is that an instinct. No. please is a feeling not an instinct. Just like pain is not an instinct but a feeling.

Instinct is just as good a cultural invention as any other. 

And animals have culture also, and they modify more or less esily by learning. Instinct might be an ability to work out some things, but it is not anything that forces anybody to anything. That is why you can train dogs not to pee where they should not.

Drugs make people, indeed force people to do things they would not do by instinct, why are they not instinct?

As to fear that causes people to not do anything wrong for fear of being cught, that is not an instinct that is cold calculation an seeing whether you can get away with something or not. And tht has nothing to do with instinct because if it was so, you would not calculate. And most of those things that attributed to sex behaviour al cold selfish calculation to get away with your own sweet pleasure damned the rest. But if you calculate that you might get caught or that the person you might offend might be mightier than you and might retaliate, your calculations change even if you still would seek pleasure for the heck of pleasure not for some instinct.

Instinct is not evil or good, it is indifferent. You would have it even if it went against your own interests. That is what the dog does, when it goes around  awake even if it is dead tired, and stays around till everybody else is in bed. That is not deliberate or calculated. That might be an instinct, which like may be overriden thorugh training.

Salaam





Cerberus

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2019, 01:01:33 PM »
It's true that instincts are neither good nor bad, they're animalistic. The notion of good and bad is relative to humans only and what they make of what is good and what is bad. The human body was engineered to have these things and it was done for a reason.

Some of the most interesting religions and philosophies teach to rise above this human nature. Virtue in itself is going against these human instincts.From forgiveness, chastity, humility, generosity.....as opposed to being harmful, lustful, attention-seenking, materialist....

If you have a different idea about these things you can go with it and we can agree to disagree. I'm not trying to convince anyone here.

I brought up these ideas as an answer to the claim that "women should be able to walk down the street butt naked" and my point is basically that what we know as evil has its basis deeply rooted in the human nature.

And I'll leave it here.

SleepySoul

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2019, 08:33:48 AM »
I hardly find a study done on 44 white women groundbreaking.

Makeup is for "enhancing" beauty but it's not always something to do with attracting men. There are different reasons women (and even some men wear makeup). To hide blemishes, insecurities, to feel more confident, for fun, for special occasions, etc. There are also women who wear minimum to no make-up. It also does not automatically mean that they do it because they don't want male attention.
There are also some men in certain cultures who wear kohl/surma.

I don't agree that rape is a human male instinct. I believe we have been instilled with the general sense of right and wrong in us. (91:08).


SleepySoul

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Re: It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2019, 08:36:55 AM »
It's difficult to be muslim woman and muslim man, nothing from the Quran says it's going to be easy...

Do people imagine that they will be left to say, "We have iman," and will not be tested? We tested those before them so that Allah would know the truthful and would know the liars. (29:2-3)

soul's integrity or self-deception? The test..


for both...

[The natural duty of] salat .. is a very hard thing, except for the humble. (2:45)

"for the humble" means:

Allah has not made for any man two hearts. (33:4)

meaning..

completely surrender... and either you surrender to natural order or you don't.. .

meaning

You will not attain true goodness (iman) until you give of what you love (ego 25:43, against nature and natural order, natural person). (3:92) Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his GOD? (25:43 / 45:23)

"Ego" will never accept TRUTH (Nature, Sunnatullah, Natural Order), and accordingly...

Those who have iman (facts) and do natural actions, how few they are. (38:24)

On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (50:30)

This Paradise truly is the supreme triumph, for which one must strive hard. Is this the better welcome or the tree of Zaqqum (feels like your throat stucks with a big fish bone)!? (37:60-62)

ELSE to ignore the facts does not change the facts, thus "so much for wishful thinking (delusional)"


The Quran may hurt you with the TRUTH, but it will never comfort you with a LIE.

I don't really know what you're trying to say here, as I listed some points why I think women have it harder.
What truth? Which facts?