Author Topic: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?  (Read 6708 times)

Charlie Smith

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Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« on: April 10, 2019, 03:16:02 PM »
Hello,

Could someone please explain the context of the supposed oaths which the Prophet had with the ma malakat aymanukum in the following verse:

O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. (33:50)

Also what is the context of the oaths in this verse:

And those who guard their private parts Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed ? 79:29-30

Assuming it is possible that the translations are wrong in the above citations and it actually means ?oaths? what were these oaths? Did all sides take an oath? If so, for what? Is there any historical context? I?m very confused and find it hard to understand!

Thanks

Mazhar

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 06:20:35 PM »
Reading it in the manner other non-fictions books are read, things will become explicit, In Sha Allah.

The Ayah 33:50 comprises of 69 separate words. In English language, it is called a paragraph that is around seven to ten sentences long. The paragraph form refers to its overall structure, which is a group of sentences focusing on a single topic.

There are three main parts of a paragraph:

Topic sentence - it has the main idea

Supporting sentence - details that relate to and support the topic sentence

Concluding sentence - a brief reflection or statement about the main idea

The topic sentence is: يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ إِنَّا أَحْلَلْنَا لَكَ أَزْوَاجَكَ 

30"50-52

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 08:44:29 PM »
Salam!

Brother Mazhar! Were there also some wives who were not given their due compensations by the Prophet?

Peace!

Mazhar

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2019, 12:49:57 AM »
Salam!

Brother Mazhar! Were there also some wives who were not given their due compensations by the Prophet?

Peace!

It is a protocol of marriage. In the link it is mentioned:

The paragraph unity is maintained when every other sentence would give specific information than the topic sentence that maintains the same focus of attention as the topic sentence. Specific information about: أَزْوَاجَكَ "your wives" is mentioned: اللَّاتِي آتَيْتَ أُجُورَهُنَّ : "the wives whom you had paid their wedding gifts - determined and settled obligations;". This is adjectival portrayal of the preceding noun Wives. It subtly conveys the fact of consummation of marriages. However, it does not indicate the earlier position or relationship of the honourable wives as to who they were.

Marriages 30:50-52

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 02:52:22 AM »
and those their right hands possess  .... (33:50)

Those who cannot find the means to marry should be abstinent until Allah enriches them from His bounty. If any slaves YOU [ie. "Those who cannot find the means to marry"] own want to make a contract to free themselves (as your wife), write it for them if you know of good in them (for marriage) and give them some of the (matrimonial property or) wealth Allah has given you. [RATHER THAN] Do not force your slavegirls to prostitute themselves (when you cannot afford to feed etc them) if they desire to be (a spouse and) virtuous women out of your desire for the goods of this world. If anyone forces them, then after they have been forced, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (24:33)

one must first free their slave before making them as their spouse ...a slave cannot have rights in matrimonial property and inheritance etc, only their wife have right for Islamic inheritance and matrimonial property etc. Thus the first contract must first be terminated before you can enter into the second contract, ie. contract of marriage.
Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

huruf

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 02:01:02 AM »
The proliferation of words translated or interpreted as slaves, preferably female slaves, in the Qur'an, leads one to hink that some fiscal rebates are to be had that way. Otherwise it is not understandable that so many words with their own proper meanings are turned into slaves.

?IT IS VERY DISGUSTING!!!!

Salaam

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 03:36:11 AM »
your slavegirls

and these kinds of things happen during wars, poverty, starvation etc..
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huruf

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 04:57:46 AM »
And happen above all in transltions of Qur'an with words which do not mean that. So we have been under war, poverty starvation all the time, not even an hour free?

That kind of translation is an indictement of a whole class of people. And it doesn't look as it is going to change. Too many are too comfortable. They may cringe at cerain things just to show themselves progressive and women sympathetic, but really they have not the least intention of redressing anything.

Salaam

imrankhawaja

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 05:22:08 AM »
imagine if we live in a world where women dominate the lands and declare the wars on other women nations  :rotfl:. and they make men their slave then MALES can realise what all women going through from ages.

imagine if 4 womens owned one slave wrong math
imagine if one women owned 4 males then she ll be chilling lmao.

imagine if forcefully women rape men in the battlefield and after killing their wives and kids they captured their husband for slavery how do male feels ?  :police:

i also know some pervs who want this SYSTEM/deen to b established in their lives  :laugh:

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 06:10:36 AM »
    And happen above all in transltions of Qur'an with words which do not mean that. So we have been under war, poverty starvation all the time, not even an hour free?

    That kind of translation is an indictement of a whole class of people. And it doesn't look as it is going to change. Too many are too comfortable. They may cringe at cerain things just to show themselves progressive and women sympathetic, but really they have not the least intention of redressing anything.

    Salaam

    So which rule shall we adopt during wars and similar situation?


    please also explain the legal aspect of

    • Legal rights in Matrimonial Property
    • Legal rights in Islamic Inheritence
    • Legal rights from Contract of Marriage, What is "marriage"?
    • Legal rights from Contract of Employment OR Slavery, and their legal status?

    What is the Law?

    What is your authority?




    one must first free their slave before making them as their spouse ...a slave cannot have rights in matrimonial property and inheritance etc, only their wife have right for Islamic inheritance and matrimonial property etc. Thus the first contract must first be terminated before you can enter into the second contract, ie. contract of marriage.

    He has made an example for you from among yourselves. Are any of the slaves you own partners with you in what We have provided for you so that you are equal in respect of it, you fearing them the same as one another?  (30:28)[/list]
    Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

    huruf

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    Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
    « Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 06:22:11 AM »
     :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

    as expected. Only as a meaure for self preservation it is a cottonwall full of air.

    As a child I used to play to that: the one on mi right as asked me what time is it, and the one on my left has answered that green with dots.

    Salaam 

    Mahdi Ibrahim

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    Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
    « Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 06:33:42 AM »
    the response from a moron who knows nothing about Islamic Law and Jurisprudence, and yet claim to know everything and an expert on it.. .the pseudo-scholars

    Have you ever heard about The Law of Matrimonial Property?

    The Law of  Islamic Inheritance?

    Family Law?

    Law of Marriage?

    any idea?

    do you know how property pass to descendants, widow(s) etc? EVERYTHING is sadaqah? :rotfl:
    Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

    huruf

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    Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
    « Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 09:22:42 AM »
    I su hurt by your estimation!!!!!!!

    So the cat is out of the bag, for self called Qur'an believers, Qur'an is not the question the question is
    "
    Have you ever heard about The Law of Matrimonial Property?

    The Law of  Islamic Inheritance?

    Family Law?

    Law of Marriage?"



    And for all those laws to be upheld, making many people, particularly women, into slaves, no matter which word the Qur'an says, is absolute need.

    No hope for "islamics" at all, even if they call themselves Qur'anists. Their little egos trump anything under the sun.


    Salaam

    Mahdi Ibrahim

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    Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
    « Reply #13 on: April 12, 2019, 09:43:40 AM »
    I su hurt by your estimation!!!!!!!

    So the cat is out of the bag, for self called Qur'an believers, Qur'an is not the question the question is
    "
    Have you ever heard about The Law of Matrimonial Property?

    The Law of  Islamic Inheritance?

    Family Law?

    Law of Marriage?"



    And for all those laws to be upheld, making many people, particularly women, into slaves
    , no matter which word the Qur'an says, is absolute need.

    No hope for "islamics" at all, even if they call themselves Qur'anists. Their little egos trump anything under the sun.


    Salaam

    as I said, pseudo-scholars... you can't fix them, it is infinite.  :rotfl:


    He brought down from their fortresses those of the People of the Book who supported them and cast terror into their hearts. You killed some of them and some you took prisoner (slaves). He bequeathed their land, their houses and their wealth to you, and another land you had not yet trodden on. Allah has power over all things. O Prophet, tell your wives: ´If you desire the life of the dunya and its finery, come and I will give you all you need and release you with kindness. But if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the abode of the akhira, Allah has prepared an immense reward for those among you who are good-doers.´ (33:26-29)

      So which rule shall we adopt during wars and similar situation?


      please also explain the legal aspect of

      • Legal rights in Matrimonial Property
      • Legal rights in Islamic Inheritence
      • Legal rights from Contract of Marriage, What is "marriage"?
      • Legal rights from Contract of Employment OR Slavery, and their legal status?

      What is the Law?

      What is your authority?

      He has made an example for you from among yourselves. Are any of the slaves you own partners with you in what We have provided for you so that you are equal in respect of it, you fearing them the same as one another?  (30:28)[/list]

      Allah does make a metaphor: an owned slave possessing no power over anything, and someone We have given plentiful provision who gives out from it secretly and openly. Are they the same? Praise be to Allah! They are not! But most people do not know it. (16:75)

      Marry off those among you who are unmarried and those of your slaves and slavegirls who are righteous. (24:32)

      Do not marry women of the idolaters until they have iman. A slavegirl who is one of the muminun is better for you than a woman of the idolaters, even though she may attract you. And do not give (your women) in marriage to men of the mushrikun until they have iman. A slave who is one of the muminun is better for you than a man of the idolaters, even though he may attract you. Such people call you to the Fire whereas Allah calls you, with His permission, to the Garden and forgiveness. He makes His Signs clear to people so that hopefully they will pay heed. (2:221)


      let's get to the point.. explain the legal aspect of your argument.

      and what is your basis for the law of inheritance and matrimonial property etc?

      what is your authority or you're simply a lawless community?
      Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 11:41:48 AM »
      Those who cannot find the means to marry should be abstinent until Allah enriches them from His bounty. If any slaves YOU [ie. "Those who cannot find the means to marry"] own want to make a contract to free themselves (as your wife), write it for them if you know of good in them (for marriage) and give them some of the (matrimonial property or) wealth Allah has given you.

      clueless translation suggesting to make males as your wife?

      24:33 ولىستعفف and let refrain الذىن the ones لا not ىجدون finding نكاحا marriage of حتى until ىغنىهم enriches them الله the god من from فضله bounty his والذىن and the ones ىبتغون pursuing الكتب the writ مما from what ملكت control اىمنكم right hands yours فكاتبوهم fakātibūhum/so write ye them (masculine pl.) ان if علمتم know you فىهم in them (m/p) خىرا goodness of واتوهم and gives ye them (m/p) من from مال wealth الله the god الذى the one اتكم brought you ...





      Mahdi Ibrahim

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 12:00:18 PM »
      clueless translation suggesting to make males as your wife?

      terrible, please study the Law of Marriage etc and logic .. Jurisprudence,

      and not only grammar community. pseudo-scholars religion.. :rotfl:

      you do not enter into contract with her but from his wali ...

      how do you perform nikah, with the girl or from the bride's wali / male guardian

      Those who cannot find the means to marry ... (24:33)

      IF any of you do not have the means to marry free women who are muminun, [4:3, 4:129 ONLY THEN] you may marry slavegirls who are muminun. Allah knows best about your iman; you are all the same in that respect. Marry them with their owners' permission and give them their dowries correctly and courteously as married women, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. When they are married, if they commit fornication they should receive half the punishment of free women. This is for those of you who are afraid of committing fornication. But being patient is better for you. Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (4:25)

      Allah does make a metaphor: an owned slave possessing no power over anything, and someone We have given plentiful provision who gives out from it secretly and openly. Are they the same? Praise be to Allah! They are not! But most people do not know it. (16:75)

      Marry off those among you who are unmarried and those of your slaves and slavegirls who are righteous. (24:32)

      Do not marry women of the idolaters until they have iman. A slavegirl who is one of the muminun is better for you than a woman of the idolaters, even though she may attract you. And do not give (your women) in marriage to men of the mushrikun until they have iman. A slave who is one of the muminun is better for you than a man of the idolaters, even though he may attract you. Such people call you to the Fire whereas Allah calls you, with His permission, to the Garden and forgiveness. He makes His Signs clear to people so that hopefully they will pay heed. (2:221)

      You will not be able to be completely fair between your wives, however hard you try. (4:129)

      EXCEPT

      ...if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. (33:50)
      Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

      huruf

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
      « Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 12:46:34 PM »
      ?hurray, yuupi, long live slavery!

      It is gone everywhere they say, but it is kept alive in Qur'an, ol over the Qur'an. No matter what it says, there must be slavery. Any word means slavery, particularly, women.

      And isn't it kind? Do not force you slaves into prostitution, soo without forcing them you can get money out of the business. Moral, moral, moral.

      Please, say it straight out, but do not use the Qur'an to parade inbumanity as religion.

      Do not force your (of course) slaves into prostitution... and that is

      But if you force them never mind, God forgives...

      supposed to be said by the same author who wrote the first thirty ayas of Sura An Nur...

      To say nuts... it is really to put it very mildly.

      Salaam


      Mahdi Ibrahim

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 12:48:54 PM »
      �hurray, yuupi, long live slavery!

      It is gone everywhere they say, but it is kept alive in Qur'an, ol over the Qur'an. No matter what it says, there must be slavery. Any word means slavery, particularly, women.

      And isn't it kind? Do not force you slaves into prostitution, soo without forcing them you can get money out of the business. Moral, moral, moral.

      Please, say it straight out, but do not use the Qur'an to parade inbumanity as religion.

      Do not force your (of course) slaves into prostitution... and that is

      But if you force them never mind, God forgives...

      supposed to be said by the same author who wrote the first thirty ayas of Sura An Nur...

      To say nuts... it is really to put it very mildly.

      Salaam

      Why don't you stop being a Joker and answer this question.. .

      So which rule shall we adopt during wars and similar situation?

      at least..

      Can you guarantee there will be no issue of slavery in future world wars etc?

      (ie. million of prisoners, and during scarcity, poverty, hunger etc.. which many of them "WILLINGLY" chosing slavery)


      A prisoner of war (short form: POW) is a fighter who has been captured by the forces of the enemy, during an armed conflict. In past centuries, prisoners had no rights. They were usually killed or forced to be slaves. .... For most of human history, depending on the culture of the victors, enemy combatants on the losing side in a battle who had surrendered and been taken as a prisoner of war could expect to be either slaughtered or enslaved.
      Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 07:24:21 PM »
      :rotfl:

      you do not enter into contract with her but from his wali ...

      you posted an ignorant translation, go back apply correctly ...

      24:33  فكاتبوهم fakātibūhum/so write ye them (masculine pl.)

      let's see how it comes out?


      Mazhar

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 02:15:56 AM »
      you posted an ignorant translation, go back apply correctly ...

      24:33  فكاتبوهم fakātibūhum/so write ye them (masculine pl.)

      let's see how it comes out?

      Verbal sentence: Prefixed conjunction فَ that shows cause and effect + Verb: imperative; second person; plural; masculine; [Form-III]; [و] Subject pronoun, in nominative state + Suffixed object pronoun: third person; plural; masculine, accusative state;

      Form-III has reciprocal connotation.
      This is the Predicate of preceding Relative Pronoun which is the subject:



      Mahdi Ibrahim

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 08:58:21 AM »
      you posted an ignorant translation, go back apply correctly ...

      24:33  فكاتبوهم fakātibūhum/so write ye them (masculine pl.)

      let's see how it comes out?

      you're stupid .. to whom you ask for marriage? how you perform nikah without "wali"?  how can the bride's wali a female?

      pseudo-scholars religion! :rotfl:
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      huruf

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
      « Reply #21 on: April 13, 2019, 09:17:45 AM »
      Nun, for God's sake, why would a man ever want to talk about marriage to a woman. Those are sissys who would do that. Straight men want men not flimsy women.

      Back to the cotton wall

       :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #22 on: April 13, 2019, 09:18:46 AM »
      for God's sake, why would a man ever want to talk about marriage to a woman...

      That's why it is "masculine" ...seriously logic fail from pseudo-scholars religion!  :rotfl:

      IF any of you do not have the means to marry free women who are muminun, [4:3, 4:129 ONLY THEN] you may marry slavegirls who are muminun. Allah knows best about your iman; you are all the same in that respect. Marry them with their owners' permission and give them their dowries correctly and courteously as married women, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. When they are married, if they commit fornication they should receive half the punishment of free women. This is for those of you who are afraid of committing fornication. But being patient is better for you. Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (4:25)
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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and ?oaths?
      « Reply #23 on: April 13, 2019, 09:48:43 AM »
      ?Oh, yes, slavery ?ber alles!

      Bring back slavery, but only for women, as it should be.

       :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #24 on: April 13, 2019, 09:57:07 AM »
      �Oh, yes, slavery �ber alles!

      Bring back slavery, but only for women, as it should be.

       :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

      Do you have the I.Q. to understand the issue and argument of this thread? This is terrible ..

      So which rule shall we adopt during wars and similar situation?

      you have no argument and being deluded, everywhere.. from one point to the other without logic or authority, it's impossible for any argument/discussion at all...clearly a retard.  :rotfl:

      Can you guarantee there will be no issue of slavery in future world wars etc?
      Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #25 on: April 13, 2019, 05:47:51 PM »
      but only for women, as it should be.

      marry the single among you and the righteous among your male slaves, and your female slaves. (24:32)

      slaves and slavegirls (24:32)

      Do not marry women of the idolaters until they have iman. A slavegirl who is one of the muminun is better for you than a woman of the idolaters, even though she may attract you. And do not give (your women) in marriage to men of the mushrikun until they have iman. A slave (men) who is one of the muminun is better for you than a man of the idolaters, even though he may attract you. Such people call you to the Fire whereas Allah calls you, with His permission, to the Garden and forgiveness. He makes His Signs clear to people so that hopefully they will pay heed. (2:221)
      Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #26 on: April 23, 2019, 05:19:24 PM »
      you're stupid .. to whom you ask for marriage? how you perform nikah without "wali"?  how can the bride's wali a female?

      pseudo-scholars religion! :rotfl:

      ok tried being civil only way to deal with dumb spammers with diarrhea.

      24:33
       والذىن and the ones (does not pertain to no wali ? you illiterate!)

       فكاتبوهم so write ye them (i.e. those under your care not no wali ? you ignorant!) ان if علمتم know you فىهم in them خىرا goodness of

       واتوهم and gives ye them (again not no wali ? dumb shit!) من from مال wealth


      Lastly fuck off kill yourself ? you fucking madhi/moron!

      Mahdi Ibrahim

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      Re: Ma Malakat Aymanukum and �oaths�
      « Reply #27 on: April 23, 2019, 05:21:49 PM »
      Do you believe in some of the Book and reject the rest?  (Q2:85)

      ok tried being civil only way to deal with dumb spammers with diarrhea.

      24:33
       والذىن and the ones (does not pertain to no wali � you illiterate!)

       فكاتبوهم so write ye them (i.e. those under your care not no wali � you ignorant!) ان if علمتم know you فىهم in them خىرا goodness of

       واتوهم and gives ye them (again not no wali � dumb shit!) من from مال wealth


      Lastly fuck off kill yourself � you fucking madhi/moron!

      How does that prove the slavegirl can enter into marriage contract without the bride's wali (male / masculine)?  How can the bride's wali be female when men are always being responsible/accountable for women (guardian)? To whom you ask for marriage? 

      you may marry slavegirls who are muminun ... Marry them with their owners' permission and give them their dowries ... (4:25)

      the fatwa from pseudo-scholars are truly retarded ..

      The Arabs say, "We have iman." Say: "You do not have iman." (Q49:14) The Arabs (الْأَعْرَابُ) are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know "Islam". (Q9:97)

      Arabs and how they read the Quran.. . :rotfl:
      Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?