Author Topic: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]  (Read 1079 times)

Iyyaka

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2019, 11:29:29 PM »
Salam!

Whatever the so-called grammar rules, the word ڈبح does not mean 'slaughter'.
It means to split, to separate etc. Refer to when Ibrahim says that he has left his progeny near بیتک المحرم.
Event of Yousuf and Yaqub tells us what happens when a son is separated from a father and how father feels.
Read AQ with your own eyes, listen with you own ears and use your own intellect.

Peace!
Salam Bro,

Good remark about the primary signification BUT different view => To cut,to ripped from ordinary life and to dedicate first your life for spreading the message of god

Please Don't "cut" this word from the subject of the surah 37 for a better understanding. (My first post on this topic)
In others surah, without no doubt, it means physical "sacrifice" (animal) like in [5:3].

The textual context is important as the member "Novice" underlined

Peace
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)

Mazhar

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2019, 04:00:46 AM »
Salam Bro,

Good remark about the primary signification BUT different view => To cut,to ripped from ordinary life and to dedicate first your life for spreading the message of god

Please Don't "cut" this word from the subject of the surah 37 for a better understanding. (My first post on this topic)
In others surah, without no doubt, it means physical "sacrifice" (animal) like in [5:3].

The textual context is important as the member "Novice" underlined

Peace

Every Root has a specific semantic field where it can be used. Like a seed which sprout and grow into a plant in a specific environment, each Root is used in specific semantic environment.

This Root is specific to slaughter -
A Killer causes the death of the Victim by rupturing, cutting a cleave in his throat.

However there is no restriction if people wish to wander everywhere.

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2019, 06:59:49 AM »
Salam!

Who is 'killer' in the context, brother mazhar? Give proof.
There is no ڈبح in 5:3, dear Iyyaka! Read again. There is no killing of animals required in order to get God's pleasure (i.e. Sacrifice) because He clearly tells that the flesh or blood does not reach Him. And He doea not need Rizq because He is the one who guves Rizq to all.

Ibrahim left his progeny as a head of family. He prayed to God so that people may bring fruit to his progeny. Remember that prophets do not ask for اجر/wage for their preaching. If you read whole account of Ibrahim and his sons you will come to know that only Ismael and Ishaq were among the صالحین/righteous among his progeny. Ibrahim is also father of all mumineen ابیکم.

Peace!

Iyyaka

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2019, 10:31:52 AM »
Salam Brother,

There is no ڈبح in 5:3, dear Iyyaka!

=> Yes sorry the root appears in 5:3

(5:3:23) dhubiḥa = "is sacrificed"

وَمَا أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلَّا مَا ذَكَّيْتُمْ وَمَا ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ


Read again. There is no killing of animals required in order to get God's pleasure (i.e. Sacrifice) because He clearly tells that the flesh or blood does not reach Him. And He doea not need Rizq because He is the one who guves Rizq to all.

I think you are confused about what the Quran is saying (or i Don't understand your intent)
Yes you are right when you said "He clearly tells that the flesh or blood does not reach Him. And He doea not need Rizq because He is the one who guves Rizq to all. "
But :
1) in 5:3 God talks about no eating food which is sacrified for pagan gods - No contradiction here and the word means "Physical Sacrifice"

2) I recommend you to medidate others ayats in surah 22 and you will see that during the Hajj there is "sacrifice" of animals for mumins.
With 2 diffrents goals than pagan idols :

 - show his gratitude to God only.
 - Feed the poor.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
22:36 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of God; you will have benefit in them.
So mention the name of God upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

Peace

But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2019, 12:16:04 PM »
no such thing.. but Christian doctrine in the Quran..



+ Ismail (the patient one, the righteous) was not Ibrahim's son.. but a stranger.  :laugh:

When he had separated himself from them, and what they served besides Allah, We gave him Ishaq and Yaqub (Ismail), making each of them a Prophet. (19:49)
Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

hawk99

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2019, 12:56:12 PM »
Peace, what is the origin of the dream?  Is it inspiration?
Diet?  shaytayn? what?
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2019, 01:34:32 PM »
Salam Brother,

=> Yes sorry the root appears in 5:3

(5:3:23) dhubiḥa = "is sacrificed"

وَمَا أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلَّا مَا ذَكَّيْتُمْ وَمَا ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ

This is also seperate and divide by arrows/ازلام. Read very carefully.

Quote

I think you are confused about what the Quran is saying (or i Don't understand your intent)
Yes you are right when you said "He clearly tells that the flesh or blood does not reach Him. And He doea not need Rizq because He is the one who guves Rizq to all. "
But :
1) in 5:3 God talks about no eating food which is sacrified for pagan gods - No contradiction here and the word means "Physical Sacrifice"

2) I recommend you to medidate others ayats in surah 22 and you will see that during the Hajj there is "sacrifice" of animals for mumins.
With 2 diffrents goals than pagan idols :

 - show his gratitude to God only.
 - Feed the poor.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
22:36 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of God; you will have benefit in them.
So mention the name of God upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

Peace
Have you studied/meditated all ayats? We follow or try to find truth from others' works. We follow what we think is logical but we do not care to see with own eyes. When so called scholars make birds halal to eat then we do not try to see for an ayah which says Birds طیر are halal to eat. Do we? There's one ayah which mentions طیر in Jannah and the word یشتہون/یشتھون is used. What does this word mean?
God has ن ز ل eight pairs ثمنیۃ ازواج for you from an'am (39:6). What does that mean? God has asked a question regarding these eight pairs of an'am. What is answer to that question? (6:143).
Where in 22:36 it says to ڈبح an animal and feed the poor?

BTW do you like killing animals and birds?
Remember that God has every  نفس make know what is right and what is wrong. But Iblees makes our deeds good for us. (which may not be good near God.

Peace!

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2019, 01:38:01 PM »
no such thing.. but Christian doctrine in the Quran..



+ Ismail (the patient one, the righteous) was not Ibrahim's son.. but a stranger.  :laugh:

When he had separated himself from them, and what they served besides Allah, We gave him Ishaq and Yaqub (Ismail), making each of them a Prophet. (19:49)
You may be right. Can you tell what does غ ل م mean? It is also used for Yahya.
Peace!

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2019, 01:47:00 PM »
Gh-Lam-Miim = excited with lust, stirred up, tumultuous, period from birth to the seventeenth year, youth, young man, boy.

a stranger who wishes to migrate with Ibrahim...
Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Did Abraham really dream of slaughtering his son? [37:103]
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2019, 01:51:10 PM »
Salam!

Can anyone tell what does  ضامر in 22:27 mean? And if it means a lean camel then how much flesh is there to eat in a lean camel when they reach their destination after long and difficult travelling in فج عمیق? And how much to divide and feed the poor?

I am really confused.

Peace!