Author Topic: A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature  (Read 179 times)

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature
« on: March 06, 2019, 08:29:08 AM »
Salam/Peace brother. I came across this article that tries to discredit the hearsay of hadith which came 200 years after Qur'anic Revelation:

https://www.islamicdiscourseinitiative.com/canon/hadith-the-myth-of-the-telephone-game/?fbclid=IwAR28te7V9LdTkxcj8RyWriqmzqQKCr0SbqVQL_xLNC740EV_skbBVYWDgVI

I wonder if any of you siblings can help me out, Allah (SWTAY) states clearly in Qur'an about His Hadith (4:87 & 39:23) the hadiths came after Him and His Ayats/Signs:

On that day those who rejected and disobeyed the messenger will desire that the earth will swallow them; but they cannot hide any hadith from GOD. [4:42]

Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they say: "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they say: "This is from you!" Say: "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand a hadith! [4:78]

GOD, there is no god but He. He will gather you for the day of resurrection in which there is no doubt. Who is more truthful in hadith than GOD?. [4:87]

And it has been sent down to you in the book, that if you hear GOD's verses being rejected in and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different hadith; if not, then you are like them. GOD will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in hell all together [4:140]

And if you see those who meddle in Our verses, then turn away from them until they meddle in a different hadith; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people [6:68]

Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and earth, and all that GOD has created?. Perhaps their time is coming near; so in which hadith after this will they have faith? [7:185]

And it is such that your Lord Has chosen you, and He teaches you the interpretation of hadith, and He completes His blessings upon you and upon the family of Jacob, as He completed it for your fathers before that, Abraham and Isaac. your Lord is Knowing, Wise. [12:6]

And the one from Egypt who bought him said to his wife: 'make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we make take him as a son'. And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of hadith. And GOD Has full power over His affairs, but most of mankind do not know. [12:21]

'My Lord, you have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretations of hadith. Initiator of the heavens and earth, you are my protector in this world and the hereafter. Make me die a Submitter, and join me with the good doers'. [12:101]

In their stories is a lesson for the people of intelligence. It was not a hadith that was invented, but an authentication of what is already present and a detailing of all things, and a guidance and mercy to a people who have faith. [12:111]

Perhaps you will torment yourself in grief over them, because they will not believe in this hadith at all. [18:6]

And did the hadith of Moses come to you? [20:9]

Then We sent Our messengers in succession. Every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him. So We made them follow one another, and We made them a hadith. So away with a people who do not believe. [23:44]

And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of GOD without knowledge, and takes it as entertainment. Those will have a humiliating retribution. [31:6]

O you who believe, do not enter the prophet's homes except if you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for hadith. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm God's messenger, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with God. [33:53]

But they said: ‘our Lord, make the measure between our journeys longer', and they wronged themselves. So We made them hadith, and We scattered them into small groups. In this are signs for every person who is patient, thankful. [34:19]

God has sent down the best hadith; a book that is similar in two ways. The skins of those who reverence their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whomever God misguides, then none can guide him. [39:23]

These are God's revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which hadith after God and His revelations do they believe? [45:6]

Has the hadith of Abraham's noble guests come to you? [51:24]

Let them produce a hadith like this, if they are truthful. [52:34]

Are you questioning this hadith? [53:59]

Are you disregarding this hadith? [56:81]

The prophet had trusted some of his wives with a certain hadith, then one of them spread it, and GOD let him know about it. He then informed his wife of part of the issue, and disregarded part. She said: ‘who informed you of this?'. He said: ‘I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert'. [66:3]

Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this hadith; We will lead them on whence they never perceive. [68:44]

So in what hadith after this will they believe? [77:50]

Did the hadith of Moses come to you? [79:15]

Has the hadith come to you of the soldiers? [85:17]

Has the hadith come to you of that which will overwhelm? [88:1]

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4727
Re: A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 10:08:40 AM »
Peace The Sardar.

There is a simpler way to find out the origin of Hadiths. Here are the questions:
What Hadiths did the prophet himself leave for us written down like ha did with the verses of Qoran?

Following the prophet is surely following what the prophet and only the prophet left for us to follow. No one disputes the prophet left Qoran for us. Which other Hadiths books did he leave for us?

To date not a single scholar can answer the question as "here are the Hadith books that the prophet himself either written for us or had the scribe write for us when he was alivs". There are no such books.
All the Hadiths written after the prophet do not originate from him.

Hence no argument about following them, if we do, we are following those who authored their contents after him, not the prophet himself!!!!
Even if they are genuine, they have nothing to do with the message of the prophet to us since he did not seem to take them seriously to leave them written down during his time for us to follow them.
Is this not the end of the argument?
Unless someone comes up with the Hadiths written or left written(by scribes) by the prophet himself.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 11:05:08 AM »

Unless someone comes up with the Hadiths written or left written(by scribes) by the prophet himself.

Now that you mentioned it, there is no hadith fragment that i know of dates back to 7th century.

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4727
Re: A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 12:28:19 PM »
Peace The Sardar.
Thank you.
There is another so called argument of memorisation, but this also is nullified by the fact that the prophet left both memorisation and written verses of Qoran. There is no such a thing with Hadiths.
Those who claim his sayings were memorised only, are in fact saying he did not deem them important to write them/have them written down as well.
Therefore his message can only be the one with both memorisation and written down.

The prophet in fact was forbidden to mix up his sayings with GOD s Wahi/inspired words--La Tuharrik Bihi Lisanaka Litaajala Bihi, Inna Alaina Jamahu Wa Quraanahu, Faida Qaraanahu FAttabii Quraanahu-.... i.e When GOD inspires Qoran. Only follow Qoran/What GOD inspires.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1435
  • Gender: Male
Re: A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 09:08:48 AM »
Salam/Peace everyone, i found another article and i wonder you guys think of this?

https://markusgsite.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/hadith-vs-quran/

I have read this and honestly i am little unsure about this and i don't think he is a hadith follower but like i said, i'm unsure

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1763
  • Gender: Female
Re: A article that denies the hearsay of hadith literature
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 12:23:13 PM »
Salam/Peace everyone, i found another article and i wonder you guys think of this?

https://markusgsite.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/hadith-vs-quran/

I have read this and honestly i am little unsure about this and i don't think he is a hadith follower but like i said, i'm unsure

This person probably is a non Muslim. His writing reminds of Christians who also wonder why mainstream muslims follow hadiths when they already have Quran. They usually don't take any side.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj