Author Topic: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)  (Read 2538 times)

TellMeTheTruth

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Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« on: February 14, 2019, 07:42:13 AM »
Salam!

Dear brothers and sister! I started studying Al-Quran more than two years back from now as a truth-seeker. I set the following Ayats as a Guidance and tried to be neutral/impartial during the study:

No. 1: Allah has gifted us with Eyes/Sight, Ears/Hearing and Hearts/Intellect so that we can gain knowledge and understand our matters and the signs of Allah سبحانہ و تعالیٰ

١٧_٣٦   وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِۦ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ ٱلسَّمْعَ وَٱلْبَصَرَ وَٱلْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْـُٔولًۭا
017:036 Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed hearing, eyesight, and the heart?all of these are accountable.

١٦_٧٨   وَٱللَّهُ أَخْرَجَكُم مِّنۢ بُطُونِ أُمَّهَٰتِكُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ شَيْـًۭٔا وَجَعَلَ لَكُمُ ٱلسَّمْعَ وَٱلْأَبْصَٰرَ وَٱلْأَفْـِٔدَةَ ۙ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
016:078 Allah has brought you forth from the bellies of your mothers while you did not know anything. He made for you hearing, eyesight, and hearts so that you may give thanks.

٤٦_٢٦   وَلَقَدْ مَكَّنَّٰهُمْ فِيمَآ إِن مَّكَّنَّٰكُمْ فِيهِ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُمْ سَمْعًۭا وَأَبْصَٰرًۭا وَأَفْـِٔدَةًۭ فَمَآ أَغْنَىٰ عَنْهُمْ سَمْعُهُمْ وَلَآ أَبْصَٰرُهُمْ وَلَآ أَفْـِٔدَتُهُم مِّن شَىْءٍ إِذْ كَانُوا۟ يَجْحَدُونَ بِـَٔايَٰتِ ٱللَّهِ وَحَاقَ بِهِم مَّا كَانُوا۟ بِهِۦ يَسْتَهْزِءُونَ
046:026 Certainly We had granted them power in respects that We have not granted you, and We had vested them with hearing and sight and hearts. But neither their hearing availed them in any way nor did their sight, nor their hearts when they used to impugn the signs of Allah. So they were besieged by what they used to deride.


No. 2: The message of Al-Quran should have consistency and so in the understanding of its message. This even judges between people who have different understandings:

٤_٨٢   أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ ٱلْقُرْءَانَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ ٱللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا۟ فِيهِ ٱخْتِلَٰفًۭا كَثِيرًۭا
004:082 Do they not contemplate the Quran? Had it been from [someone] other than Allah, they would have surely found much incongruity in it.

٢_١١٣   وَقَالَتِ ٱلْيَهُودُ لَيْسَتِ ٱلنَّصَٰرَىٰ عَلَىٰ شَىْءٍۢ وَقَالَتِ ٱلنَّصَٰرَىٰ لَيْسَتِ ٱلْيَهُودُ عَلَىٰ شَىْءٍۢ وَهُمْ يَتْلُونَ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ مِثْلَ قَوْلِهِمْ ۚ فَٱللَّهُ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ فِيمَا كَانُوا۟ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ
002:113 The Jews say, 'The Christians stand not on anything'; the Christians say, 'The Jews stand not on anything'; yet they recite the Book. So too the ignorant say the like of them. God shall decide between them on the Day of Resurrection touching their differences.
١٦_٦٤   وَمَآ أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ إِلَّا لِتُبَيِّنَ لَهُمُ ٱلَّذِى ٱخْتَلَفُوا۟ فِيهِ ۙ وَهُدًۭى وَرَحْمَةًۭ لِّقَوْمٍۢ يُؤْمِنُونَ
016:064 And We have not sent down upon thee the Book except that thou mayest make clear to them that whereon they were at variance, and as a guidance and as a mercy to a people who believe.
٤٢_١٠   وَمَا ٱخْتَلَفْتُمْ فِيهِ مِن شَىْءٍۢ فَحُكْمُهُۥٓ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمُ ٱللَّهُ رَبِّى عَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْتُ وَإِلَيْهِ أُنِيبُ
042:010 Whatever thing you may differ about, its judgement is with Allah. That is Allah, my Lord. In Him, I have put my trust, and to Him do I turn penitently.


No. 3: No one can change the words of Allah:
٦_٣٤   وَلَقَدْ كُذِّبَتْ رُسُلٌۭ مِّن قَبْلِكَ فَصَبَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰ مَا كُذِّبُوا۟ وَأُوذُوا۟ حَتَّىٰٓ أَتَىٰهُمْ نَصْرُنَا ۚ وَلَا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَٰتِ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَآءَكَ مِن نَّبَإِى۟ ٱلْمُرْسَلِينَ
006:034 Messengers were certainly denied before you, yet they patiently bore being denied and tormented until Our help came to them. Nothing can change the words of Allah, and there have certainly come to you some of the accounts of the Messengers.
٦_١١٥   وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَتُ رَبِّكَ صِدْقًۭا وَعَدْلًۭا ۚ لَّا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَٰتِهِۦ ۚ وَهُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلْعَلِيمُ
006:115 The word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and justice. Nothing can change His words, and He is the All-hearing, the All-knowing.

So when I started studying, the very first Ayah/Ayat in almost all the copies of Al-Quran was بسم اللہ الرحمن الرحیم and the very first word was بسم and almost all translators, tafseers/exegeses writers and dictionaries translated it as ?In the name of? or ?with the name? as its meaning. They say that it is actually the word باسم and the Alif has been dropped due to some certain reasons. I was not satisfied because I could see the difference between the two words. I tried to verify it from Al-Quran itself. Please check the below references yourself and tell me if you also see the difference or not:
1.   113 times in the beginning of every Surah except Surah No. 9
2.   1 time in Surah No. 27
٢٧_٣٠   إِنَّهُۥ مِن سُلَيْمَٰنَ وَإِنَّهُۥ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
3.   1 time where only the words/phrase بسم اللہ appeared:
١١_٤١   ۞ وَقَالَ ٱرْكَبُوا۟ فِيهَا بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ مَجْر۪ىٰهَا وَمُرْسَىٰهَآ ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّى لَغَفُورٌۭ رَّحِيمٌۭ

Notice that there is no ?Alif? even if the word بسم is used within the lines and not in the beginning of a Surah.
On the other hand the word باسم is also used many times in Al-Quran.. See references below:
٢_٣١   وَعَلَّمَ ءَادَمَ ٱلْأَسْمَآءَ كُلَّهَا ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَى ٱلْمَلَٰٓئِكَةِ فَقَالَ أَنۢبِـُٔونِى بِأَسْمَآءِ هَٰٓؤُلَآءِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَٰدِقِينَ
٢_٣٣   قَالَ يَٰٓـَٔادَمُ أَنۢبِئْهُم بِأَسْمَآئِهِمْ ۖ فَلَمَّآ أَنۢبَأَهُم بِأَسْمَآئِهِمْ قَالَ أَلَمْ أَقُل لَّكُمْ إِنِّىٓ أَعْلَمُ غَيْبَ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ
٥٦_٧٤   فَسَبِّحْ بِٱسْمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلْعَظِيمِ
٥٦_٩٦   فَسَبِّحْ بِٱسْمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلْعَظِيمِ
٦٩_٥٢   فَسَبِّحْ بِٱسْمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلْعَظِيمِ
٩٦_١   بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ ٱقْرَأْ بِٱسْمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ

So, brothers and sisters! I see the difference between بسم and باسم. ?Alif? is not dropped. Why?
Isn?t letter ب is used as a حرفِ جر as most of the grammar experts explain the word بسم.
I believe that the two words cannot have the same meaning. I will only believe in it when I will follow others than Allah or the Quran.

Here is another occurrence of the word بسم:
٢٧_١٩   فَتَبَسَّمَ ضَاحِكًۭا مِّن قَوْلِهَا وَقَالَ رَبِّ أَوْزِعْنِىٓ أَنْ أَشْكُرَ نِعْمَتَكَ ٱلَّتِىٓ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَىَّ وَعَلَىٰ وَٰلِدَىَّ وَأَنْ أَعْمَلَ صَٰلِحًۭا تَرْضَىٰهُ وَأَدْخِلْنِى بِرَحْمَتِكَ فِى عِبَادِكَ ٱلصَّٰلِحِينَ

All translators have used the words ?smiled? or ?laughed? or ?amused? for translation of this verse because it is based on the Arabic root word ب س م which means ?He smiled? So the word بسم means smile (or pleasure/amusement).
Please use your sight and verify for yourself.

In case you feel difficulty in Arabic, here are the Transliterations for both Ayats which I quoted earlier:

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/1/1/default.htm
بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
Transliteration       Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi   
Transliteration-2       bis'mi l-lahi l-raḥmāni l-raḥīmi

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/96/1/default.htm
ٱقْرَأْ بِٱسْمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ
Transliteration       Iqra/ bi-ismi rabbika allathee khalaqa   
Transliteration-2       iq'ra bi-is'mi rabbika alladhī khalaqa

This is how I learnt the first word and the first Ayat?s meaning. I believe that no one can change the ?words? of Allah.
PLEASURE/SMILE OF ALLAH, THE MOST COMPASSIONATE, THE EVER-MERCIFUL!

Now let?s use this meaning in the following Ayats and see the difference:
١١_٤١   ۞ وَقَالَ ٱرْكَبُوا۟ فِيهَا بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ مَجْر۪ىٰهَا وَمُرْسَىٰهَآ ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّى لَغَفُورٌۭ رَّحِيمٌۭ
My translation: And he said board/embark in it, pleasure/smile of Allah starts/runs it and stops/anchors it. Indeed my Lord/Nourisher is surely Oft-Forgiving, Ever-Merciful.

قَالَتْ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلْمَلَؤُا۟ إِنِّىٓ أُلْقِىَ إِلَىَّ كِتَٰبٌۭ كَرِيمٌ
إِنَّهُۥ مِن سُلَيْمَٰنَ وَإِنَّهُۥ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
أَلَّا تَعْلُوا۟ عَلَىَّ وَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ
My translation; [27:28-30]: She said, ?O chiefs! Indeed a venerable writing is delivered to me. Indeed it is from Suleiman? (Saying) ?And indeed it is pleasure of Allah, the Most-Compassionate, and the Most Merciful that not you wish eminence above Me and come to Me in submission/Muslimeen?.

Suleiman did not ask the queen to submit herself to Suleiman but he delivered her the message of Allah in which Allah's Ayat was quoted.

Muslimeen are those who submit to Allah!

May Allah bless and guide us all!
   

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 08:23:32 AM »
As per my understanding of Quran Mohamed was the only prophet for Arabs...
So bismillah Rahman Raheem is not one of the typical. Same verse in the book of prophet Sulaiman.... He wouldn't have said the same but perhaps in his own language.. Coz God reveals in language of the prophets and their people...
What could that be that he wrote to Sheba saying equivalent to bismillah Rahman Raheem....
It seems like it was the beginning of his letter while sheba read it... It could be in the OR with the name of......  ....... ...... But not Arabic version...
Or was it in Sheba's language

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 09:24:35 AM »
As per my understanding of Quran Mohamed was the only prophet for Arabs...
So bismillah Rahman Raheem is not one of the typical. Same verse in the book of prophet Sulaiman.... He wouldn't have said the same but perhaps in his own language.. Coz God reveals in language of the prophets and their people...
What could that be that he wrote to Sheba saying equivalent to bismillah Rahman Raheem....
It seems like it was the beginning of his letter while sheba read it... It could be in the OR with the name of......  ....... ...... But not Arabic version...
Or was it in Sheba's language

Salam Jkhan!

You have raised questions for my future articles.
Why do you understand that Mohammad was the only prophet for ARABS? Arabs called themselves from the progeny of the prophet Ismail. Wasn't Ismail a prophet [19:54]? Didn't he live near the "Baytika Al-Muharram" [14:37]? Didn't he built 'The Bayt' with his father Ibrahim [2:127]? Where in the Quran, Allah has addressed to "Bani Ismail" or said "Oh Arabs!" Please dig the Quran and share your findings.

Secondly, do you consider each and every sentence in Quran as an Ayah/Sign/Qawl of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala?
See the below Ayah for example:
٢٨_٣٨   وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُم مِّنْ إِلَٰهٍ غَيْرِى فَأَوْقِدْ لِى يَٰهَٰمَٰنُ عَلَى ٱلطِّينِ فَٱجْعَل لِّى صَرْحًۭا لَّعَلِّىٓ أَطَّلِعُ إِلَىٰٓ إِلَٰهِ مُوسَىٰ وَإِنِّى لَأَظُنُّهُۥ مِنَ ٱلْكَٰذِبِينَ
028:038 And Pharaoh said: "O chiefs! I know not that ye have a god other than me, so kindle for me (a fire), O Haman, to bake the mud; and set up for me a lofty tower in order that I may survey the god of Moses; and lo! I deem him of the liars." [Pickthal]
How much Thawab would I get by reciting this Ayah for 100,000 times?

"Bismillahi ArRahmani ArRahimi" What did you read? Is it written in Arabic? Who told you that it is an Ayah? Don't you think It is a piece of an Ayah in Surah An-Namal. Here is the whole Ayah:
٢٧_٣٠   إِنَّهُۥ مِن سُلَيْمَٰنَ وَإِنَّهُۥ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
027:030 Lo! it is from Solomon, and lo! it is: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful; [Pickthal]
Where it says that the letter from Suleiman had Bismillah on top/in the begnning?

Sauleiman A.S communicated with Sabaian Queen in a language known to him, her or both of them. I think every nation may have atleast one translator in every era.

Was the language of Allah, Adam, Iblis and Malaika same at the time of Adam's creation? What language was that?
Science says as follows:
For a long time, humans used primitive sounds and gestures as their means of communication. Structured languages were seen in scriptures that were written about 10,000 years ago.

Peace!

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 09:41:52 AM »
As per my understanding of Quran Mohamed was the only prophet for Arabs...
So bismillah Rahman Raheem is not one of the typical. Same verse in the book of prophet Sulaiman.... He wouldn't have said the same but perhaps in his own language.. Coz God reveals in language of the prophets and their people...
What could that be that he wrote to Sheba saying equivalent to bismillah Rahman Raheem....
It seems like it was the beginning of his letter while sheba read it... It could be in the OR with the name of......  ....... ...... But not Arabic version...
Or was it in Sheba's language
Somewhat agreed to the red part.
The whole Quran is 'Words of Allah', which cannot be changed. But every word have a meaning which can be understood to some extent and able to convey the message. Otherwise words could become useless.
An example:
*I ate an apple.
*I consumed an apple.
Didn't you get the same understanding/meaning?
But when a car consumes fuel, you cannot say it ate the fuel.

Hope you understand what I want to say because |I am not good in English.

Peace!

kaltun

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 10:26:05 AM »
Slm to all,

maybe our Mahdi Ibrahim can answer these question sinds he is an prophet/warner/messenger
...

so dear Mahdi , can you answer this ????
May Allah guide us to the straight path

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 10:29:29 AM »
Salam Kaltun!

He does not even know what "Mahdi" means. LOL!

Peace!

kaltun

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 10:33:58 AM »
Aslm  TellMeTheTruth,

question mark in my head .....

بِاسْمِ = Bism or Bi ism

بِسْمِ = Bism

May Allah guide us to the straight path

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 10:57:31 AM »
Salam Kaltun!

I have given transliterations of both words and shared the link too. You can check transliterations from other sites/ translations as well.
بِاسم = Bi-ism
بسم = bism

Peace!

kaltun

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 11:25:23 AM »
Salam Kaltun!

I have given transliterations of both words and shared the link too. You can check transliterations from other sites/ translations as well.
بِاسم = Bi-ism
بسم = bism

Peace!

alsm bro,

writing is not my strongest :)
 
bi-ism ==> prenouncing  beesem

https://translate.google.com/?um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=nl&client=tw-ob#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=nl&text=beesm ( click on loudspeaker left under to hear it)

right ?
and bism is bism
May Allah guide us to the straight path

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 11:41:51 AM »
Salam Kaltun!

It is Arabic and not Dutch or any European language. You may not write well but you can SEE the difference between two words regardless of the language. Don't you?

Peace!