Author Topic: quran434.com  (Read 7505 times)

Wakas

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 05:51:41 AM »
The first question I have is what is the criteria for you to accept that DRB is being used literally? What does your ideal literal sentence look like?

When the usage fits like a glove, i.e. there are no logical/practical/cross-reference/grammar/etc problems. I've accepted it can mean hit/strike in Quran, as discussed at Quran434.com

Quote
In your article you say;
which made me think that, for you, there is no criteria where DRB can have a literal meaning. In-fact you question the literal meaning of DRB being hit/strike, you say it's "to put/show forth". So the non-literal meaning be would hit/strike.

But then you say;
which made me think, okay, there is a criteria, but it contradicts what you said earlier.

There is no contradiction. Simplified, I'm saying:

There is no clear occurrence of DRB meaning "beat".
When used with the preposition "bi" it indicates a physical usage (including hit/strike).

Please note there is a difference between "hit/strike" and "beat", as also mentioned in Lane.


My view is discussed in detail at Quran434.com. This thread is about testing YOUR view (and consequently your objections to Quran434.com's interpretation). So, let us test YOUR view, and once tested, you/I/readers can weigh up the evidence and see which meaning fits best. Hence what I wrote:

Quote
I think what will be more helpful is if we take one at a time and I can provide a brief summary of the strongest points which go against the literal/physical understanding. You can then respond.

e.g.
6) [8:50], [47:27]

If the object is real and the hitting is literal/physical (i.e. real) then this means it would be measurable/observable in some way but it isn't. Thus, such an understanding results in an empirical/logical fail.

There is no supporting evidence in Quran that I'm aware of that supports physical hitting in these verses and all the evidence in Quran that I'm aware of goes against such an understanding.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

kaltun

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 06:02:34 AM »
Slm ,

i read this thread , again and again ....probably due my language bariere i don't understand this discussion....

summarizing :

Burhan:
4.34 DRB is hitting ... ? even if the couples are/were gays ( man) ?

Wakas:
4.34 DRB is "to put/show forth"

i dont get it , why as an Human being with the love of God/Allah , you hit a person to correct him/her ??? even some animals dont learn from hitting.
...

we humans can communicate ( ahum the tools are there, if you cant use it, thats a whole different story ;) ) .., Allah tought our speech ....

sorry i looking to this very black and white .....
May Allah guide us to the straight path

imrankhawaja

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2019, 09:17:50 AM »
Slm ,

i read this thread , again and again ....probably due my language bariere i don't understand this discussion....



TRUE.

surverys shows the weakest minds are gifted to believers of flat earth lmao.

and there is an example in book the weakest house is the house of spider only if u can undertand?

kaltun

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 10:56:38 AM »
TRUE.

surverys shows the weakest minds are gifted to believers of flat earth lmao.

and there is an example in book the weakest house is the house of spider only if u can undertand?

SLM IM

just wow ... not reacting on my logical explanation but at my short fall of understanding... wow..., this way you hope i will do what ... ?? stop with replying .. to get me angry .. what is the purpose  :confused:

as you can see on my writings , i am no hero on grammar ... i have to do my best to understand it... not due my intelligent , but due language .... i am set as a logical person , i mean with this , it has to be logical to me to inderstand it....

please enlight me why Allah mentioned the house of spider is the weakest  of house ??

sinds we quote Quran here i have one for you also , pls ponder and reflect it to yourself

O you who believe! (Let) not ridicule a people [of] (another) people, perhaps that they maybe better than them; and (let) not women [of] (other) women perhaps that they maybe better than them. And (do) not insult yourselves and (do) not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is the name (of) disobedience after the faith. And whoever (does) not repent, then those - they (are) the wrongdoers.


May Allah guide us to the straight path

imrankhawaja

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 11:19:29 AM »
surveys shows the WEAKest minds are those who said 2+2=4? ie proven fact = false ===> flat earthers ?

LIVING wonders of UNIQUE minds.

experts are not still unanimous about the reason of that nature how possibily someone can think that unique way.

experts said  its difficult to explain ?why? someone can think that way.

i m sharing the surveys about a specific people is it any form of ridicule ?
explain how ? ?experts? are ridicule anyone they are just showing their data generated by random people ?

 :laugh:

Mazhar

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2019, 11:38:29 AM »
Quote
Kaltum stated
please enlight me why Allah mentioned the house of spider is the weakest  of house ??

The equivalence of those people who have consciously and purposely adopted perceiving for themselves as protectors, benefactors, godfathers other than Allah the Exalted is:

Like the specific She-Spider when she has purposely adopted a house.
Know the fact, the flimsiest of the houses is certainly the adopted-house of specific She-Spider.
Had they but known-realized flimsiness of their choice. [29:41]

The females of many species place the egg sac on a stalk, wraps leaves about it, attach it to a stone, or cover it with smooth silk before abandoning it. Other females guard the egg sac or carry it either in their jaws or attached to the spinnerets. If a female loses an egg sac, she makes searching movements and may pick up a pebble or a piece of paper and attach it to the spinnerets. (With thanks from Encyclopedia Britannica-Spider}

The female spider despite knowing that the piece of paper does not contain her eggs, she takes it to her "chest". And there has never been dearth of people who keep such papers/traditions/sayings void of any substance/knowledge and proof closely  to their chests and are seldom prepared to have a look on that "paper" to evaluate/weigh it if there existed anything of substance wrapped in it.

kaltun

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2019, 11:39:11 AM »
surveys shows the WEAKest minds are those who said 2+2=4? ie proven fact = false ===> flat earthers ?

LIVING wonders of UNIQUE minds.

experts are not still unanimous about the reason of that nature how possibily someone can think that unique way.

experts said  its difficult to explain ?why? someone can think that way.

i m sharing the surveys about a specific people is it any form of ridicule ?
explain how ? ?experts? are ridicule anyone they are just showing their data generated by random people ?

 :laugh:

peace bro.

what ever "expert"  :rotfl:

you cant even decently explain the verse to me , if you dont know , pls dont mentioned it , this says alot of your personality ...

you have 0% fact in your hand , yet you call it fact ....

pls dont hijack this post with belittling me.

my apologizes to burhan and Wakas. is shall not post offtopic again.

May Allah guide us to the straight path

kaltun

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2019, 11:46:05 AM »
The equivalence of those people who have consciously and purposely adopted perceiving for themselves as protectors, benefactors, godfathers other than Allah the Exalted is:

Like the specific She-Spider when she has purposely adopted a house.
Know the fact, the flimsiest of the houses is certainly the adopted-house of specific She-Spider.
Had they but known-realized flimsiness of their choice. [29:41]

The females of many species place the egg sac on a stalk, wraps leaves about it, attach it to a stone, or cover it with smooth silk before abandoning it. Other females guard the egg sac or carry it either in their jaws or attached to the spinnerets. If a female loses an egg sac, she makes searching movements and may pick up a pebble or a piece of paper and attach it to the spinnerets. (With thanks from Encyclopedia Britannica-Spider}

The female spider despite knowing that the piece of paper does not contain her eggs, she takes it to her "chest". And there has never been dearth of people who keep such papers/traditions/sayings void of any substance/knowledge and proof closely  to their chests and are seldom prepared to have a look on that "paper" to evaluate/weigh it if there existed anything of substance wrapped in it.
SLM Mazhar ,

thank you , for this , i read this before here , and also eating the male has to do with weak family ....

btw brother Mazhar can you also react to post
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610529.msg422760#msg422760


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Mazhar

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2019, 11:47:15 AM »
The basic perception, meanings and signification of this Root: "ض ر ب"  as stated in Classical Lexicon of Er-R?ghib is: إيقاعُ شيءٍ على شيء:That it signifies causing a thing to fall, tumble upon or with it dislodge another thing. Lane Lexicon stated:  "accord. to Er-R?ghib, الضَّرْبُ signifies the making a thing to fall upon another thing;" [unquote]

The conceptual meanings of the Root evidently reveal that its meanings in the real-world experience will be reflected by the collocates or other words associated with it in the context.
It reflects that its effect may necessarily not be of causing hurt. It reflects an instance; an illustration or an occurrence. The most equivalent word in English vocabulary to describe the basic perception and its various uses in different semantic fields is verb "strike".

Semantic field: Strike
Enter awareness : It denotes to fall or shine on something, to make obvious;
to make something noticed;
make something to be perceived or become audible-understandable for someone;
to make some idea enter somebody's mind or occur to somebody; to penetrate or seem to go right through something; make something by stamping;
and Dislodge: to remove something away - displace; dislocate, dislodge, deform, the target with force.
Cause harm: And it signifies to hit somebody or something with a hand, tool, weapon, or other object. Obvious intention is to hurt, damage.
Moreover, support words will be required if the intention of the speaker is to indicate the instance as involving repeated strikes to reflect what is denoted by English word "beating"; punishment in which somebody is repeatedly hit.

Semantically, it relates to activity thereby its agent is sentient. An activity has predetermined objective to achieve. It has two objects between which interrelationship is created. The result or affect of activity will depend upon the manner, angle and force applied in the strike. The objective of strike can either be:
(1) creating an affect in the object that is made to fall upon other thing;
(2) purpose of striking one thing upon another can be making something else apparent that was earlier hidden because of the location of the thing struck upon;
(3) the thing by which another is truck overwhelms; and
(4) Cause harm to the thing struck upon or to expose it.

It is thus evident that the words of this Root have multiple meanings (senses) based on the context of the usage of word in an instance. One unique features of Qur?ān is that it has built in lexicon for its important words and terms. It exposes the perception and meanings of its important words by using it in different semantic fields by relationships and contrasts whereby one can perceive all its dimensions relating to substance as well accident including metaphorical aspect.

imrankhawaja

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Re: quran434.com
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2019, 12:05:50 PM »
look how beautifully brother mazhar explained it to you but same like always you still didnt get it.
 
flat earth theory based their claim at zero evidence aginst their opponents (roundearther) who are having multiple evidences in their claim noone yet successful to tackle it.
best example ?eclipses?.  :yeah:

how weak is the claim only if they can  understand ?