Human greed and Animal abuse

[Mohammed.]

See the exploitative human greed in commercial Egg and Milk production

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utPkDP3T7R4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrGQTyrIFLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u80_IrSILI4-

[quincy]

Thats why i dont even eat halal labeled meat in the west. This is beyond greed and animal cruelty, its the degenerate state of mind -> these kind of people are worse then cattle. This is what the intellectual age of "science" brings upon you. Complete anti-social anti-empathic behaviour. Profit is the only thing they care. They only believe in numbers.

[Mohammed.]

peace Abaddon,

And many supporting this cruelty knowingly/unknowingly by purchasing their products since most of the food products today available are with egg and milk as ingredients- like chocolates, cakes, breads, ice creams, etc.

Thats why i dont even eat halal labeled meat in the west.

Do you think halal certification (if animals are treated in a good manner i.e. no cruelty) =approved by God?
Most of the halal certified slaughter houses will have traditional Muslims for doing the process. But in a traditional Muslim view, meat will become halal by just pronouncing/uttering the name of God while slaughtering (many traditional Qur'an translators translated 6: 118, 119 & 121 incorrectly). Qur'an used the root dh-k-r in 6: 118, 119 & 121 which basically means remembrance/bear in mind, not just uttering. The word used for the Swalat in Qur'an also has the same root (e.g. 20:14). I believe that no any such certification can assure the state of one's mind. And the person doing this job will be slitting hundreds of animals/birds within few hours (i.e. continuously, for long time they are doing only this cutting job!). Will they be able to slaughter each animal/bird properly?.
And this is applicable to any food with animal based (slaughtered) ingredients like gelatin (e.g. foods like marshmallows, jams, jellies,cakes, ice creams etc.

[quincy]

Peace and blessings, Mohammed!

Veganism is the only way if you dont have your own farm, i agree.

[good logic]

Peace brothers..
I agree this is a cruel world. The system of money dictates the process for profit-A lot of profit-.

One wonders though how can it be possible to change the system if the majority are pawns in it. They play the game willingly or by necessity.

GOD is aware of the plight of all His creation.We consume the foods that GOD gives an food  that man puts hre by cheating and oppression of animals and vegetation without fully knowing the process of man. We know GOD is just and fair.
And there lies the difference.

When everyone is able to check and choose their food, it is an easier choice. You can of course boycott what is unjust and unfair.
But what about those with no knowledge of cruelty and no choice but to consume what they can get?
This is where I see the problem.
May the Lord provide good and lawful food for all.
Very lucky indeed are those that can choose and  very brave are those that highlight the oppression and cruelty of GOD s creation to make others aware.
GOD bless you both.
Peace.

[Amra94]

I was vegan for a while, I still dont eat dairy but I do eat eggs occasionally. This U.S company claims to be cruelty free https://www.chinovalleyranchers.com/humane/  you can get them at Costco

[Mohammed.]

The verses 6:118,119 &121 does not mention slaughtering specifically, so

'on which God's name has been remembered' may also mean Fair Treatment throughout farming as well as during slaughtering. [God's name-The Merciful, so 'remembering Gods name' may refer to kind treatment to animals?]

Diary
Artificial Insemination -Cow will not get the approach of its male partner,
no male-female mating communication no natural mating, instead human hand/special devices deposit the sperm
after delivery in the growing stages, usually calf will not get enough approach of its mother as in natural systems, no proper care from mother and no proper time for mother-child communication/ love- may be for the whole life time of the dairy cows!

Egg
Genetic Manipulation & selective breeding -Hens (Living beings) into Heavy Duty egg producing units -almost for the whole life time of these creatures.

-trespasses against Natural systems.

[Mohammed.]

peace,

Chickens raised for flesh

naturally, birds have daytime and night, but poultry bird's are 24 hrs in light. Imagine, how it will be if you are in such an environment...

quote
Chickens are inquisitive, interesting animals who are as intelligent as mammals such as cats, dogs, and even some primates. They are very social and like to spend their days together, scratching for food, taking dust baths, roosting in trees, and lying in the sun.

But chickens raised on factory farms each year in the U.S. never have the chance to do anything that's natural or important to them. A baby chick on a factory farm will never be allowed contact with his or her parents, let alone be raised by them. These chickens are deprived of the chance to take dust baths, feel the warmth of the sun on their backs, breathe fresh air, roost in trees, and build nests.
https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-farming/chickens/

[Mohammed.]

The verses 6:118,119 &121 does not mention slaughtering specifically, so

'on which God's name has been remembered' may also mean Fair Treatment throughout farming as well as during slaughtering. [God's name-The Merciful, so 'remembering Gods name' may refer to kind treatment to animals?]

I think the above verses do not deal with /address manipulation and exploitation of animals (making unfair/unnatural use of).

[amin]

See the exploitative human greed in commercial Egg and Milk production

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utPkDP3T7R4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrGQTyrIFLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u80_IrSILI4-

Yes true,  human greed at maximum we see in these MASS PRODUCED poultry,  vegetables and cereals that are over fertilized , use of antibiotics, other chemicals and pesticides in growing them fast, and in long run people will learn about the effects of these unhealthy practices.

[woke]

How disturbing! Humans are So greedy and selfish. Very sad

[Goddeo]

This whole animal abuse thing is scary a little bit. I was always wondering, why people are so mean to animals. To be honest, there is nothing bad that an animal will do to us if we are not aggressive. Well, wild animals are not counting, and even those animals. Do you really think that tigers, lions or crocodiles are doing something bad to you? If so, I think that you have some serious problems mate. If you notice an animal, don't kill it, call for help. Here https://louisville.aaacwildliferemoval.com/raccoon-removal you can have all the assistance that you might need and the point is that the animal will not be killed, but transferred to its natural habitat.

[Mohammed.]

(many traditional Qur'an translators translated 6: 118, 119 & 121 incorrectly). Qur'an used the root dh-k-r in 6: 118, 119 & 121 which basically means remembrance/bear in mind

peace quincy, and all,

Although "to remember, bear in mind," etc., seems to be the basic meaning, I'm unsure about the exact implications of "dh-k-r" in the above verses, as its meaning can vary depending on the context (e.g., 21:36, 21:60, etc.). Ultimately, it's up to the believer to determine the best fitting interpretation for 6:118,119, & 121 and decide on halal certification/labels.

[jkhan]

peace quincy, and all,

Although "to remember, bear in mind," etc., seems to be the basic meaning, I'm unsure about the exact implications of "dh-k-r" in the above verses, as its meaning can vary depending on the context (e.g., 21:36, 21:60, etc.). Ultimately, it's up to the believer to determine the best fitting interpretation for 6:118,119, & 121 and decide on halal certification/labels.

6:118 Sahih Int'l "So eat of that [meat] upon which the name of Allah has been mentioned, if you are believers in His verses."

Let me bring only one verse and probably if you use your intellect without any prejudice you will get all other verses about food and its restrictions..

Allah has not forbidden any food... NOT FORBIDDEN any FOOD... what Allah has forbidden is filth ... Unfortunately the above verse has gone nowhere with Sahih Translation.. A comprehensive understanding of the verse allowed me to translate in this manner:


6:118 So consume (Fa'kulu) out of which (Mimma) attribution (Ism) of Allah is considered (Zukira), if you are faithful ones in His verses."

*** No need to mention the name of Allah before eating anything
*** No need to mention the name of Allah before slaughtering an animal or fish etc.
*** All you need is the food that you are about to consume should be within the attribution considered by Allah..

So try to grasp what attribution is in-depth.. for example .. what is the attribution of the Sun.. fundamentally Light or Radiance and Heat.. Similarly, Allah has never forbidden any food.. Is blood a food? No.. Are dead animals food? No... Are decayed or rotten meat food? No.. Are those foods not attributed by Allah not even food and that's what you people were initially conversing about like infiltrating or torturing animals to consume them.. That's attribution other than Allah.. They are food on their own but the way you approach them to get them as food is not within the attribution of Allah considered etc..

Bismillah is not the name of Allah but the Attribution of Allah.. Allah has many equitable/well-balanced attributions (Asma Al Husna)
That's why I always believe that BIsm Allah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem is "In/with/of Attribution of Allah, The Merciful and The Generous" .. literally it states.. With attribution of Allah who has a couple of great attributions namely, He is the Most Merciful while He is the Most Generous...

If anyone understands this principle then every verse concerned in the above discussion is within your grasp with clarity..

[Mohammed.]

peace jkhan,

If God has not forbidden any food, what do these verses mean?
"...eat from what God has provided for you, lawful and good /halalan tayyiban (16:114, & 5:88, 8:69, 2:168)

22:36 prescribes fadhkurusmallahi 3laiha before/during slaughter (when they lined up), and this phrase is specifically used when referring to animals as food (including birds), not any other food, also, it's not exclusive to hajj (6:138, 5:4). The timing of this obligation/remembrance, however, is not explicitly mentioned in these two verses, allowing for individual interpretation.
And Quran says "The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided,..." (39:18)

And then we have
6:121 "And do not eat from what God's name/attribute/ism has not been remembered/mentioned on it, and that it truly is fisq..."

fisq is distinct from rijs/filth/impure (6:145, 5:3 etc.)

For concerns about animal welfare and ethical conduct, there are numerous verses that we can relate to,
Examples:
Who created the death/lifelessness and the life to test you which of you is better in deeds (67:2)
..so race/surpass each other in doing good deeds (2:148, 5:48)
..So whoever is expecting his Lord's meeting, so he makes/does righteous deeds (18:110)
And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the record; then to their Lord they will be gathered. (6:38)
..like that We manipulated/subjugated it for you, so that you may be grateful (22:36)

[jkhan]

peace jkhan,

If God has not forbidden any food, what do these verses mean?
"...eat from what God has provided for you, lawful and good /halalan tayyiban (16:114, & 5:88, 8:69, 2:168)

Brother Mohamed..
Hi..

Lawful doesn't mean forbidden food and needless to say what is good and good is a choice for every individual.. what is good for you may not be good for me.. for example.. allergic.. or if you like to eat the meat of crocodile it is food and lawful but it is up to me to decide it is good for me or not..

Significantly, we have to consider that Allah did not use the word FOOD and said forbidden.. Did He? If He has, pls bring it.. I didn't see it in my research.. That's unfair.. right.. Food, and then forbid?... Allah forbid that are not at all be considered to be food for anyone unless you are compelled and consider them to be food by yourself ...

salam

[jkhan]

peace jkhan,


22:36 prescribes fadhkurusmallahi 3laiha before/during slaughter (when they lined up), and this phrase is specifically used when referring to animals as food (including birds), not any other food, also, it's not exclusive to hajj (6:138, 5:4). The timing of this obligation/remembrance, however, is not explicitly mentioned in these two verses, allowing for individual interpretation.

2:36 is indeed not only for Haj but all those who kill animals for food under this verse... In fact during ancient Haj also they kill animals only for food and no rituals there but to feed the poor or for themselves, etc.. But brother Mohamed, Allah clearly commands and indicates that before they are to be killed, just CONSIDER attributes of Allah to be applied to them... Why? Because these animals should be under the proper conditions aligning with the attributes which are prescribed for us when it comes to consumption of food..
Here, the one who kills has to apply condition number 04 of the forbidden list.. That is Uhilla lighair Allah Bihi ... general term used for Uhilla is dedicated and I don't mind either but in fact the depth meaning of it is 'deserved/merited/worthed/Uhilla'... so.. 'dedicated or deserved for without Allah in it'... it means to say the animal slaughtered or its meat is not worth within the range of Allah but beyond... for example if in Haj, the animal could have been a hunted one and it is not an attribute of Allah to consume it because you are forbidden to hunt.. So once these animals (regardless of any situation) are in line it should be considered.. for example, the animal could be very weak or sick visibly and internally and it is not the attribute of Allah to slaughter it.. or for example, animal is half eaten by a wild beast or animals lined up cannot be killed other than slaughtering them (5:3 clarifies) and these things should be applied while they about to take their lives and it should be in line with Allah's attributes.. So do not beat them to kill or do not strangle and suffocate them to kill or do not pierce with sharp pointed clubs etc.. just slaughter them so that pouring blood completely ejected... When they are lined up apply attributes of Allah ... so simple..

It's not about mentioning the Name of Allah when they are lined up, but considering attributes of Allah before taking their lives.. Indeed 5:3 in detail explains what 'Uhilla Lighair Allah Bihi' is all about....

[Mohammed.]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, jkhan. I interpret verses 6:118, 119, 121, etc. differently. These verses imply an obligation to acknowledge, ideally, from before the slaughtering takes place, (being grateful for providing the animal as sustenance 22:28, 34, 36, see also 22:40, 24:36, 76:25 etc.).