Author Topic: Pork is HALAL  (Read 25369 times)

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Pork is HALAL
« on: January 27, 2019, 08:08:40 AM »
Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?

WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6:146)

  • And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV
  • And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. Deuteronomy 14:8 ESV

Accordingly

The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (5:5)

It is shirk to make haram the flesh of swine

Say: ´Produce your hadither / witnesses to testify that Allah made this (flesh of swine) haram.´ If they do testify, DO NOT I'TIQAD WITH THEM and DO NOT FOLLOW the whims and desires of people who deny Our SIGNS, and who do not have iman in the Next World and MAKE OTHERS EQUAL TO THEIR LORD (SHIRK). (6:150)
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kaltun

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2019, 09:04:09 AM »
SLM,

this is  confusing ....

pork=pig=swine  ?? right   ==> haram

if not ==> halal





May Allah guide us to the straight path

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2019, 11:30:00 AM »
Peace use cross reference.

Compares human behavior to monkeys and swine i.e. ?living? animals not "rotten meat" etc.

5:60 ... وجعل and made منهم of them القرده l-qiradata/the monkeys والخنزىر wal-khanāzīra/and the swines

Note deference between وجعل wajaʿala and خلق khalaqa

One of oldest parchments dated 606-652 CE (95.4%)

Berlin, State Library: ms.or.fol. 4313
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/61?handschrift=15


Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2019, 07:42:18 PM »
muhkamat (fact/logical/cause and effect) and mutasyaabihat (opinion/illogical/delusional)..

What's "SEEN/CONSIDERED" AS

  • The monkey sees, monkey do leadership principle; and accordingly..

no human beings turned into pigs and monkeys

and "seen/considered" is consistent with other verses etc.
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jkhan

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2019, 10:19:04 PM »

Hi and Peace all...

We should know that it would have been a very easy subject for those who were listening to the message when it was revealed? otherwise it would have become a huge topic at the moment of revealing it? unless they confused the meaning of Swine? Is it prohibited to eat Flesh of Swine? Or is it something else prohibited after long years.. everyone refer dictionaries to see what is Khinzeer? Yes.. it says swine? but it does say anything else also? such as rotten ? I read one article of rashad kalifa if I am not mistaken few years back? He also worked out that what is prohibited is only the Flesh of Swine and NOT the rest of the bodily parts of swine except blood(blood is anyway prohibited)?According to the verse it seems okay and that makes sense? That?s one option? I don?t deny if the meaning of khinzeer is swine then it?s perfect explanation.. BUT
If the meaning of khinzeer in this verse is not Swine? then what is actually prohibited.? If we take as flesh rotten / decayed then don?t we have a question that whether the decayed or rotten FAT is prohibited or not? FAT is an edible stuff?. coz God was very specific about what is prohibited for those who were given books earlier for that matter 6:146??one of those is of course FAT..
Question arises.. Right?..
Dear Mahdi? Pls don?t hide the verse 5:5 only to suite your opinion? coz that verse continues 5:5 says two things? ??. Food of those who were given the book is lawful for You AS WELL YOUR FOOD IS LAWFUL FOR THEM?.? And verse continues?
Now when it is said YOUR food, does it include their food as well.. yes it has to be coz this is the last of those revelation which confirms all previous books and act as a guardian over them .. so what is actually given in quran should not contradict with previous books unless additional changes are included..So lets stick to what quran says?so what quran says is also applicable for them if they believe the same God.. But what the previous books say may not applicable to those who follow quran when the law had additional applications other than that whatever previous books and quran says has no difference then no issue.. whatever the verses similar to the exemplary verse of 6:146   in previous books is void and null 5:15 once the quran clarified what is actually prohibited?is it? After all their food our Your food in quran is same?
Now what is khinzeer? Why God didn?t specifically mention that FAT of Khinzeer is prohibited if FLESH of Khinzeer is prohibited.. So the option of Rotten / decayed meat is far from right? coz FATof  Khinzeer is not mentioned?
Now if we take the meaning of Khinzeer to Swine? Prohibited is Flesh of Swine then why not FAT of Swine is not prohibited? one can ask?. Actually it is not prohibited coz it is not mentioned in quran 16:115 or 2:173, 5:3 (that?s all what is prohibited)?. So FAT of Swine is lawful? But still one can argue then why can?t it be Rotten Meat?? If rotten/decomposed is the KEY word to prohibit whatever the khinzeer is then whatever rotten/decayed FAT should be taken as lawful, even whatever you eat from an animal the rotten part should be considered as LAWFUL?.If Rotten/decayed is the KEY here then how one can consume the decayed FAT?.
As per my understanding that?s what works.. so sorry folks fat of swine is lawful?after all what you eat is what you like and Good (Thai?ba)?
In addition to that in 05 places khinzeer word appears and in my knowledge they don?t fit for rotten either.. God says flesh of Khinzeer is indeed IMPURE? Use common sense? is it really required to say that Decayed Flesh is indeed IMPURE? Even a child knows when it smells? Further God says if you are COMPELLED 6:145 in simple way? whatever the prohibited things can be consumed?. Now as per my human nature let me say the below?
01)   dead animal = OK can eat, hunger no option (still can manage)
02)   Blood = OK, hope?hunger no option (hope can manage)
03)   Dedicated to other than Allah = OK, hunger no option..(no issue can manage)
04)   Rotten / Decayed Meat = NO? hunger but still no way.. (cannot manage)
But if it is Flesh of Swine = OK, Hunger (can manage)
My understanding may be wrong? so, much appreciate if others clarify their understanding? or any previously discussed links in order for me to workout and develop my understanding?. May Allah forgive me if actually what he meant is not what is my understanding...
God guide us.. 

Sultan Brandon

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 12:45:51 AM »
You're not the Mahdi.

5:5 does not say pork.

And there's four other ayat say that pork is forbidden (2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115).  Seek forgiveness from God.

Not to mention the logical reasons for why pork is haram like the fact that its filled with parasites, they're garbage feeders and pork production creates toxic pools of waste, among other problems.

In the name of God, the All-Mighty, the Merciful
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

5:3 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on altars, and what you divide through arrows of chance. This is vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not be concerned by them, but be concerned by Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have approved submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

5:4 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say: "All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs and birds catch, you teach them from what God teaches you." So eat from what they have captured for you and mention the name of God upon it, and be aware of God. God is swift in reckoning.

5:5 Today, the good things have been made lawful to you, and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them; and the independent females from those who are believers, and the independent females from those who have been given the Book before you, if you have given them their dowries, to be independent, not for illicit sex or taking lovers. And whoever rejects belief, then his work has fallen, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.


Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 12:48:34 AM »

Dear Mahdi� Pls don�t hide the verse 5:5 only to suite your opinion� coz that verse continues 5:5 says two things� ��. Food of those who were given the book is lawful for You AS WELL YOUR FOOD IS LAWFUL FOR THEM�.�

No, I don't need to hide a Book/verses that almost 8,000,000,000,000 peoples have access, doesn't make sense at all..

and I merely pointing out this issue:

Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?

WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6:146)


  • And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV
  • And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. Deuteronomy 14:8 ESV
Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 01:05:12 AM »
And there's four other ayat say that pork is forbidden (2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115)

with four root words..  root khā nūn zāy rā (خ ن ز ر)

and missing of ي

the point is, something that needs to read carefully ...

... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (5:5)




"ACTED LIKE" ... 5:60



Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

Mahdi Ibrahim

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 01:17:45 AM »
You're not the Mahdi.

That is almost IMPOSSIBLE.  :!



Matheism is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations | What defines you?

Sultan Brandon

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Re: Pork is HALAL
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2019, 01:43:15 AM »
Evidence of end times is not evidence that you're the Mahdi.  Assuming there will even be a Mahdi.  But you can believe that if you like its just not healthy for you.

الخنزير = pig

In the name of God, the All-Mighty, the Merciful

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

2:173 He has only made unlawful for you that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated with to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

انما حرم عليكم الميتة والدم ولحم الخنزير وما اهل به لغير الله فمن اضطر غير باغ ولا عاد فلا اثم عليه ان الله غفور رحيم

25:43 Have you seen the one who has taken his desire as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?

ارءيت من اتخذ الاهه هوىاه افانت تكون عليه وكيلا

4:49 Did you not see those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged in the least.

الم تر الى الذين يزكون انفسهم بل الله يزكى من يشاء ولا يظلمون فتيلا

4:172 The Messiah is not too proud to be a servant to God, nor are the angels who are close to Him. Whoever is too proud from His service, and is arrogant, then He will gather them all towards Him together.

لن يستنكف المسيح ان يكون عبدا لله ولا الملائكة المقربون ومن يستنكف عن عبادته ويستكبر فسيحشرهم اليه جميعا