News:

About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran

Main Menu

Qur'an Universe Model Is Geocentric

Started by Neptin, January 09, 2019, 12:33:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Neptin

And the earth according to Qur'an is likely flat. I can see now why some orthodox scholars like Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Baaz never supported the heliocentric model of the universe.

Below are just a couple verses;

27:61
Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed/resting abode(qararan), and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any god beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!

36:38
And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

36:40
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.


The Qur'an several times repeats the sun and moon are in motion but never the earth. To me, this seem at first to be implying the monthly revolution of the moon about the earth and revolution of the sun about the center of the milky way Galaxy. I see a different picture now after looking deeper at the above verses and several more.

Since there is no mention of a moving earth, a fixed and immobile earth is implied when we read 27:61. Given the Qur'an never specifies what the sun and moon orbit, it mean it does not oppose the prevailing knowledge of the time - the earth as the center of the lunar and solar orbits.

The sun and moon motion are often mentioned in context of day and night in the Qur'an. In Geocentric universe model, day and night is tied to revolution of the sun and moon about the earth.

Next, not only does the Qur'an speak of sun's motion, it speaks of the sun running to a "place/abode" for it(36:38). It seem the sun's orbit is a semi orbit with a point where the sun eventually come to a stop, at night. This is only conceivable in a geocentric model with a flat and immobile earth.

On a geocentric model, the sun and moon's orbit are concentric circles. This is implied in 36:40. Because, to consider the sun not overtaking the moon, both objects have to move in the same direction and in orbits that are side to side like concentric circles.
Reclaiming Islam from extremism;
[url=http://flamesoftruth.wordpress.com]Flames Of Truth[/url]

kaltun

SLM Neptin,

becarefull with flath earth here  ::) ::)

and what do you think about this verses ...

(Allah) said, "Get down some of you to some others (as) enemy. And for you in the earth (is) a dwelling place and livelihood for a time."
He said, "In it you will live and in it you will die and from it you will be brought forth." https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/7/25/

i think no space travel either  8)

May Allah guide us to the straight path

Neptin

It seem to state human come from outside the earth - space. Like Adam and Eve arrived like aliens to earth. What do you think?
Reclaiming Islam from extremism;
[url=http://flamesoftruth.wordpress.com]Flames Of Truth[/url]

good logic

Peace Neptin.
Hello brother. It depends on What is "Kararan" in the context of 27:61? The "Kararan"  is for us. I think in the context of what is being described and why, this makes sense to me:
27:60
Who is the One who created the heavens and the earth? Who is the One who sends down to you from the sky water, whereby we produce gardens full of beauty - you could not possibly manufacture its trees? Is it another god with God? Indeed, they are people who have deviated.
أَمَّن خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ وَأَنزَلَ لَكُم مِنَ السَّماءِ ماءً فَأَنبَتنا بِهِ حَدائِقَ ذاتَ بَهجَةٍ ما كانَ لَكُم أَن تُنبِتوا شَجَرَها أَءِلٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ بَل هُم قَومٌ يَعدِلونَ
27:61
Who is the One who made the earth habitable, caused rivers to run through it, placed on it mountains, and created a barrier between the two waters? Is it another god with God? Indeed, most of them do not know.
أَمَّن جَعَلَ الأَرضَ قَرارًا وَجَعَلَ خِلٰلَها أَنهٰرًا وَجَعَلَ لَها رَوٰسِىَ وَجَعَلَ بَينَ البَحرَينِ حاجِزًا أَءِلٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَ
27:62
Who is the One who rescues those who become desperate and call upon Him, relieves adversity, and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is it another god with God? Rarely do you take heed.
أَمَّن يُجيبُ المُضطَرَّ إِذا دَعاهُ وَيَكشِفُ السّوءَ وَيَجعَلُكُم خُلَفاءَ الأَرضِ أَءِلٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ قَليلًا ما تَذَكَّرونَ

I see the plants and water as the context of "Kararan"  which means habitable here not fixed. I.e GOD made the earth habitable for us  not fixed. Your Karar is your abode, where you live
GOD bless you
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Wakas

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Neptin

Peace goodlogic and Wakas.

Quote from: Wakas on January 09, 2019, 09:51:47 AM
<yawn>

Seems to me your translations contain selectively chosen word meanings that suit your position, e.g.

Re: 27:61
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=qrr#(27:61:4)

Peace. I can't agree with corpus Qur'an. 'qararan' refer to a state of rest, for a physical object. A revolving and rotating object like earth cannot be 'qararan'.

Quote
Re: 36:38
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=qrr#(36:38:3)
Same as above. See how the likes of Pickthall translated the verse.

Quote
Re: 36:40
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607169.msg364471#msg364471

I partly agree here.

Reclaiming Islam from extremism;
[url=http://flamesoftruth.wordpress.com]Flames Of Truth[/url]

ibn_a

Salaam,


Quote from: Neptin on January 09, 2019, 12:33:39 AM
...

36:38

And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

...

Next, not only does the Qur'an speak of sun's motion, it speaks of the sun running to a "place/abode" for it(36:38). It seem the sun's orbit is a semi orbit with a point where the sun eventually come to a stop, at night. This is only conceivable in a geocentric model with a flat and immobile earth.


This could refer to the Solar Apex.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_apex


والله اعلم
Allah knows best.


Wakas

peace Neptin,

Rather than baseless claims, please prove to us the meanings you chose are the most accurate/evidenced/logical/cross-referenced meanings for the words in question.

Then we can see the credibility of your claims.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

kaltun

Quote from: Neptin on January 09, 2019, 04:50:14 AM
It seem to state human come from outside the earth - space. Like Adam and Eve arrived like aliens to earth. What do you think?

Slm neptin,

what do you think about verses 7:24-25

i see this verses like , you gonna be born on THIS WORLD, after living you gonna die on THIS WORLD   , and  after dead the resurrection on THIS WORLD ---> all on earth .... no space travel orso, 

genesis:
Gen 1:6 God said, ?Let there be a firmament in the midst of the water, that it may separate water from water.?  1:7 God made the firmament, and it separated the water which was below the firmament from the water which was above the firmament. And it was so. 1:8 God called the firmament Sky?

i think the dome-wall is some kind of water-wall,  thats why ( i think) the sky is blue ;) .....

https://youtu.be/iKk4UCTIqRg?t=81 ... the rocket hits the wall , yet rocket doesnt explode or brake in half orso ....


May Allah guide us to the straight path

huruf

Is there a reason why the Qur'an should address all people, of all degrees of instructio, of all ages and learning as if they were all consumate astronomists?

All the nitpicking as to the words used int he Qur'an in order to adress ALL PEOPLE regarding perceivable phenomena to remind them to bear in mind the wondrowsness of all that exists seems to me as whims of spoilt children like the princess who noticed the pea under the mattress.

The Qur'an is no astronomy textbook. It is a guide for  people who want to follow the straight an upward path.

What would be conclusive in proving the Qur'an wrong would be to find an unequivocal assertion that the moon and the sun turn around the earth or that the earth does not turn around anything else and does not move in space.

Thos qaraar and those other things, he earth as qaraar is absolutely irreproachable. Regardless of what it does in th solar system and the constellation, it is absolutely a qaraar for people and all that lives and exists within its atmosphere and on its surface and waters. That is undisputable.

As to the mustaqarr part, please, those who find it wrong, can they come up with a better word to describe what the sun does? Fixed? It is fixed, if it were not fixed then the sun would run one day here another day would go to another constelation just to have some fun, next day she would try something else and would open a track in between the orbits of the planets. That would not be fixed. But what it does, running always the same tract is fixed. Same as when we go to work and work everyday in the same place we take the same transport take the same traject. We take a fixed course.

But, of course, as the great and splendid astronomers we all are, we ant to be addressed by any guide on behaviour for mankind with proper words that ony can understand the astronomers of the XXIth century. Who knows may be for the XXX century it would be old and the concpets and nomenclature may have changed and then the guide for mankind would again be wrong.

We are such a bunch of excellent and allknowing people we deserve nothing but the most scientifically up to date nomenclature in all domains best from God or anybody who attempts to address us and be taken seriously.

Salaam