Author Topic: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?  (Read 7858 times)

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What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« on: December 28, 2018, 04:49:15 AM »
Salaam brother GL

As suggested by you I have opened this thread. Since traditional Islam takes ritual prayer as ibadat so we need to understand root 3bd first and then discuss if ritual prayer is ibadat.

As far as I have known you I like your gentle mannerism and am hopeful that we will in sha's Allah be benefited with this discussion.

Once again my purpose is to learn Quran and not to win or loose.

Lets start with the root 3bd. My understanding so far is that 3bd does not mean worship. It is obeying God by following Quran - not blind following but with understanding and conviction based on thorough reflection and thinking.




Wakas

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 05:05:19 AM »
Background:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12389.msg97190#msg97190

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15870.msg159537#msg159537
Similarly with "ibadah" (commonly translated as worship, but is more akin to servitude). When one serves their master, their sayings and actions are done in accordance to their master's will, but in doing so, the actions/sayings eventually come to take precedence from an outside-looking-in perspective, hence not the mindset but the acts become "ibadah", hence a more ritualistic approach. Hence a subtle shift to translations using "worship".

https://www.scribd.com/document/46961150/Dictionary-of-Quranic-Terms-and-Concepts-Mustansir-Mir
p217


http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
ع ب د

Ayn-Ba-Dal = serve, worship, adore, venerate, accept the impression of a thing, obey with submissiveness or humility, approve, apply, devote, obedience, slave, keep to inseparably, subdue, assemble together, enslave.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2018, 06:44:47 AM »
Peace Novice.
I am not in traditional Islam and I do not take Iquami Salat as Ibadat like you suggest here, quote::

As suggested by you I have opened this thread. Since traditional Islam takes ritual prayer as ibadat so we need to understand root 3bd first and then discuss if ritual prayer is ibadat

I want to discuss your claim that there is no prayer connection with GOD from Qoran s point of view only. i.e that "Aquimi Salat" is not  instructed by GOD to seek help and connect with him.
So what is Iquami Salat in Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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imrankhawaja

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 09:38:49 AM »
peace GL,
as per your understanding of salat. in last few threads if i am not wrong you also claimed there are five salat in the system of quran. and you proved it with code 19 science. lol ( i think you are following someone blindly) probably rashad khalifa . its good to follow and respect your leader also obey ur leader ibada ur leader but atleast also serve 17 36.

so in this way you also consider this ritual as ?ibada? and you dnt have any different thinking than traditional islam but on the same time u are saying something else ?

brother NOVICE opened this thread for knowledge as i can see so instead of debates we should see where we stand in the understanding of Quran.

God bless you.

huruf

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2018, 10:46:46 AM »
43.64:
إِنَّ اللَّـهَ هُوَ رَبِّي وَرَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُوهُ ۚ هَـٰذَا صِرَاطٌ مُّسْتَقِيمٌ ﴿٦٤﴾

Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path.

5.72:

لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّـهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۖ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُوا اللَّـهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّـهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللَّـهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ ﴿٧٢﴾


They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.


Salaam

huruf

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2018, 11:13:19 AM »
Here are some quotes from previous posts of mine  in the other thread where I think i stated what my understanding of worship was   (root 3-b-d)

  I have reread them and I can't see where it is confusing and, what is more, in the original post in this thread here, the poster seems to agree with my own view to a great extent. I supose it is just a matter of not liking a particular word.



Quote
So serving does not exhaust worship.

As to 3bd as regards with respect to God, for me it is plain that it is worship. God, is nto a beneficiary of anythign useful we may do. God is our absolute owner and creator, and also our greatest lover if we accept His Mercy.

Let us take dogs, they do worship us, but they do not do any rituals, they are straightforward in expressing their feelings.

I really do not fathom wherefrom anybody got this thing about rituals as synonym of worship.

Quote
But the question I insist is that we do serve God, whether we want it or even  know or not. The question poses itself within us, if we acknowledge our own condition as beings.

People may have 3ibad servants, which yes, it would be de same root or word, but we cannot feel nor are the same thing towards somebody we serve as to God, even if it is also voluntary, because nobody is God except God, and we obey Him voluntarily when we worship, whereas we would serve him all the same if we did not want to serve Him, but we would not worship Him. So we would be the loosers.

Quote
It depends on wht people or each person understsnds by God and by god.

On the other hand, no, God does not need absolutely anythying at ll, neither worship or anything, it is we, people who need to worship God, that is to acknowledge in all truth and humility what we are in respecto to him.
I do not want to start again on the question of whether we serve God or we worship God. We do serve God whether we want it or not, because simply God can use us in whichever way He wants. That is why we worship God, becuse if we "serve" Him it cannot be the same kind of service we may give any other being. God cannot benefit nor suffer from us serving Him or disserving Him. But we do benefit if we serve Him in worship, that is acknowledging what we are with respect to him by our own will.


Salaam





imrankhawaja

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2018, 02:09:19 PM »
its all depend on how one interpret the word ibada.

in verse 5:72 both words ibada and shirk appear side by side.

although i agree directly or indirectly everybody doing ? ibada?
a person doing nothing is also doing something what cause other people life moving.
example a patient in coma for months or years is doing nothing directly but indirectly he is becoming a cause of income related with that hospital. charties are getting collected by both fair income and unfair income means. so appearing like everthing is locked whatever way u go there is a black hole that consumes all enerygy matter money.

we can do ?ibada? lot of parts of it by serving the duties related with money what we have for finite time. either we do it directly or law of cause of effect will force us to do it indirectly.

we hear news about losses of people in daily routine. LOSS of one is PROFIT for other.
there is a creation behind every destruction.

this word ibada could b LOCK of natural LAW of TRUE creator. Its more like attitude instead of rituals prays or tasbee.

MAY God bless us all with knowledge

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2018, 02:18:56 PM »
Peace Imran.
You say this about me, quote:

as per your understanding of salat. in last few threads if i am not wrong you also claimed there are five salat in the system of quran. and you proved it with code 19 science. lol ( i think you are following someone blindly) probably rashad khalifa . its good to follow and respect your leader also obey ur leader ibada ur leader but atleast also serve 17 36.

You are wrong. My mentioning of code 19 about Salat was lighthearted . I used Qoran verses for my understanding.

Also show me where I said Salat is "Ibada"?

Please read my posts about "Aquimi Salat" to double check why your understanding about my views on Salat is wrong.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 02:58:49 PM »
Peace Imran.
You have also said this, quote:

so in this way you also consider this ritual as ?ibada? and you dnt have any different thinking than traditional islam but on the same time u are saying something else ?
I will show you that you are wrong here , by quoting a couple of my old posts from August 2017:
1- A reply to brother Rekkd, here, quote:
Peace Rekkd.
I believe you are an honest person.

You say ,quote:
Now back to the topic. The problem I find here is people are stuck and have ceased to move forward. Ok you've abandoned the Hadith books and everything related, Great! Now what? Try as hard as possible to twist and adjust the Quran to fit with modern society AND to alter the crazy verses in the Quran. I was hoping I would find people like me out there, trying to figure it out.

My similar statement would be:

Now back to the topic. The problem I find  is some people are stuck and have ceased to move forward. Ok you've abandoned the Hadith books and everything related, Great! Now what? Try as hard as possible to twist and adjust the Quran  if you follow most interpretations of Qoran to fit with modern society BUT we need  to challenge the crazy interpretations of  verses in the Quran. I was hoping I would find people like me out there, trying to figure it out.like:
Uubudu does not mean worship,Rituals/seeking GOD s help has nothing to do with "Uubudu". Uubudu is simply following the "straight path"-Al-Sirat Al-Mustaqueem -see "6:151 -153.  It is already in our instinct all humans: "Fitrata Allah Allati Fatara Al Nas Alaiha"...
Yes brother Uubudu Allah just means Choose the straight path. ( Be a good human/do good works/have good morals...etc).
Anyway,Keep searching brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
2- My post reply on August 22 2017 on one of the threads by brother Makaveli, quote:
...
I am going to go off subject here just for few sentences to show that our understanding has got to change if we are sincere about pondering Qoran,here is a basic example:

For centuries we were told "Uububu Allah" means serve/ worship( I myself leant towards these for a while!). i.e the rituals? Well they are far far away from the truth of Qoran.
If we ponder Qoran we find all people are "Ibad Al-rahman" and there are different types.

"Wama Khalktu...Illa Li-Yabuduni" Cannot mean serve/ worship GOD, because GOD explains it elsewhere in Qoran as "Sirat Al-Muataquim":

"...Wa Ani Uubuduni, Hada Siratun Muataqueem". I will be short here and get to the meaning of "Sirat Al Muataqueem,which means "right conduct/behaviour/morals" which has to come by our choice from the freedom given by GOD. Remember Shaitan does not give us any freedom,he insists on his way(taghut) .
So GOD is saying I created the Jinn and humans only to give them the freedom of choice .Only to give them the choice of  My (GOD s) system  "Sirat Al Mustaqueem".

The  rites?rituals are "the help needed " to succeed. "Iyaaka Naabudu Wa Iyyaka Nastaiinu" clears the two "Naabudu" means "by our right conduct and "Nastaiinu" means by rituals we seek your help because of our love for GOD and His system.
So "Naabudu" has nothing to do with  worship or service or rituals in the context of all the verses in Qoran

 GOD willing,I will open a thread to discuss this in detail and many other "misconceptions" that have been fed to us for centuries about GOD s message.
For now I apologise for some off topic here .
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
And of course I am happy to discuss Qoran verses on the subject here amicably.
GOD bless you brother.
Peace.
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Re: What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 03:23:15 PM »
Peace All.
Although I discuss most topics , my priority about the message of Qoran is the basic message. The most important topic to discuss is our works and morals. Not rituals or history with all its stories even though they serve as help and lessons.

This post of mine , my beliefs for few years now, confirms my stand on the message of Qoran, It is relevant here, quote:

I commend all those who strive with Qoran.
However, the deviations are many and the priorities are still not right.

We have not got the basics right.
Qoran keeps repeating the "straight path"(our conduct here as humans) and calls it "Wisdom",like the wisdom of Luqman, Abraham.

Yes concentrating on the simple message of Qoran . Upholding the "straight path" -like justice, helping others, living as a unit family, being "GOD conscious" and upholding high morals(love, honesty, good thoughts,trust,...) all the qualities required /instructed by GOD( Al-Haqq) that keeps us from being destructive and fighting each other.

These are the basics that we need to highlight and preach . "Straighten up each individual so that the whole community is straight and in harmony" .This clear(no ambiguity  whatsoever in it) message is the basic that will set up the agenda of GOD s Deen.

For example the "Muslim" countries have millions of facilities for teaching hadiths and reciting (yes, parroting, sorry to say so) Qoran, but not one institution/facility to ponder/investigate Qoran . It is almost as they are afraid for their people to come across its treasure of knowledge.

So, why should we not turn the so called "Islam" religion upside down to restore its priority( and put as its head the most important pillars:
Submission and total loyalty to GOD Alone.
Justice.
Honesty.
Trust.
Help and care.
Well being of the brothers and sisters.
Family/community health (environment,self and social)
Good works and good morals.

These must be fundamentals before any of what Muslims call worship rituals. This will turn the Deen into a "straight path".
"Kuntum Khaira Ummatin..."Applied for a few years when the prophet was alive, then Shayateen took over!!!!

We have proof of that in Qoran;" Innaka Mayitun Wa Innahum Mayitoon, Thumma Innakum Yawma Alqiyamati Takhtasimoon" i.e you will die(Prophet" and they will die(Those who took over after you-Traditional Islam-) then on the day of judgement you will "Takhtasinmoom"( Argue/disagree/be opposites). Yes the prophet will clearly be against his umma.

For me the questions discussed here are not the priority. They may even be irrelevant if we do not recognise the clear "straight path" from Qoran

My take and comment on this issue.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. 
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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