About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran

Main Menu

Salam Alaikum

Started by juniper tar, December 05, 2018, 03:30:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

juniper tar

And greetings from Istanbul, Turkey. Stumbled upon this place while looking for where the ?real? Mecca was ? lately having questions about the geography of the Quran after having come across A.T.Fomenko?s New Chronology. There is a lot of information to sift through and digest here, inshaallah it will be a means to lead me to study the Quran in more detail.

In peace,


Gaano kalaki ang pinagmulan ng malaking data na ito? Magkano ang data na maaari kong makuha, dahil pinaghihinalaan ko na ang malaking nilalaman na ito ay tinanggal sa database?


peace junipar,

i recommend you to watch a documentry by TOM HOLLAND (untold story of islam).
you can watch it on some interesting findings to research about subject.

God bless u

juniper tar

Quote from: imrankhawaja on January 08, 2019, 03:01:36 PM
peace junipar,

i recommend you to watch a documentry by TOM HOLLAND (untold story of islam).
you can watch it on some interesting findings to research about subject.

God bless u

Thank You brother Imran, noted, will watch it inshaallah.


Quote from: imrankhawaja on January 08, 2019, 03:01:36 PMpeace junipar,

i recommend you to watch a documentry by TOM HOLLAND (untold story of islam).
you can watch it on some interesting findings to research about subject.

God bless u

In my perspective, the documentary presents a blend of varying perspectives, some of which may diverge from mainstream beliefs. While it offers alternative theories, I believe documentary promotes theories that undermine the Quran's authenticity or the legitimacy of Prophet Muhammad's prophethood.

Holland's dismissal of the oral and textual Islamic tradition leads him to seek out alternative explanations. Acknowledging his difficulty in finding definitive sources, he frequently refers to his lack of information as a "black hole." In his attempt to present a revised view of Islamic history, Holland employs specific Quranic verses, such as the story of Prophet Lot and the perceived absence of references to the city of Mecca, as supporting evidence for his alternative narrative.

Holland contends that the Quran refers to places, landscapes, and geography that do not align with descriptions of Mecca and its surroundings. He suggests that this suggests the Quran may have originated from a location other than Mecca or southern Arabia. He highlights a specific verse from the Quran in support of this argument:

And indeed, Lot was among the messengers. [So mention] when We saved him and his family, all, except his wife among those who remained [with the evildoers]. Then We destroyed
the others. And indeed, you pass by them in the morning. And at night. Then will you not use reason?

Holland suggests that the phrase "you pass by them in the morning and at night" implies a location outside of Mecca, given the absence of such ruins within the city. However, this conclusion leads Holland to make certain assumptions, notably about the travel habits of Meccans. This assumption overlooks the historical reality, as noted by historian Ira M. Lapidus in his book "A History of Islamic Societies," where he highlights that the Arabs in Mecca were well-known traders who journeyed extensively:
"By the mid-sixth century, as heir to Petra and Palmyra, Mecca became one of the important caravan cities of the middle east. The Meccans carried spices, leather, drugs, cloth and
slaves which had come from African or the far East to Syria, and returned money, weapons, cereals, and wine to Arabia"

Had Holland examined the Quran more closely, he might have recognized that the contexts of these verses are elucidated elsewhere in the Quran. In these passages, the Quran rhetorically questions the Meccans about their travels through the land to witness the ends of other civilizations and cities.

"Have they not travelled through the land and observed how was the end of those before them? They were more numerous than themselves and greater in strength and in impression on
the land, but they were not availed by what they used to earn"

Moreover, the verse:2:274
Those who spend their wealth in charity day and night, secretly and openly—their reward is with their Lord, and there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.

Muslims do not give charity every day and every night. It is just a figurative expression to describe regularity of trade trip.

I don't mean to dismiss the documentary outright. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, when recommending something for others to read or watch, one should critically examine it first. It's important to consider any underlying motives that might be influencing the content, which are often apparent. This way, we avoid inadvertently steering others toward a potentially biased viewpoint.

Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad) until you follow their religion. Say: 'Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the only guidance.' If you were to follow their desires after what you have received of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper."

Frankly speaking I see this documentary to suggest in between the lines as some one quoted in the comment section as: "Islam came first and the arab empire was the result. Mohammed sold the idea of Islam using Jewish and Christian texts (the Bible) as basis. And because he was an arab selling this idea, naturally he was able to evangelize his fellow arabs"

In essence, Tom Holland has opted for a speculative and marginalized perspective on the origins of Islam. By disregarding established academic viewpoints and factual evidence, he appears to justify his own biases and lack of understanding regarding Islam.
Best Regards,