:: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::

[Makaveli]

They have set up many theories claiming it is proper Scientific research . Like Mosques were facing Petra, Qoran dates back to the 1 st/2nd Century, original language of Qoran was not Arabic, Stories of Qoran have been copied from various old sources...etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_and_the_Idol_Shop - Talmud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sleepers - Ancient Greece, Jacob of Serugh (c. 450 ? 521),

And countless of other examples.

You argument, besides "everything is already "explained" in the Quran, no need to find out anything"?

Also, what is Arabic? The product of the 8th century based on Old South "Arabic" (Ephiopian) script/alphabet? Why in such a case is word jinn meaning "invisible, spirit", of Persian origin, or Injeel is a calque from Ancient Greek eu'angelos?

There is no need for history or Mohammed s sayings or anybody else s saying

I see, there is no need for anything useful of a study or sound analysis. And that person who for some reason calls himself good logic told me about "fact checking".

If you could even undestand what muhammad stands for...but you won't with a veil over your face, because there is no need for you to understand.

[good logic]

Peace Makaveli.
You need to know why Qoran tells you stories then you will see that "copied the stories" comes nowhere near.
You will also see that the Qoran s stories and the so called "original copies" differ for a good reason.
You will also deduce that GOD s story is the true version. Simply because GOD does not do lying or errors.

GOD has got there before you and is telling you who the liars are:

Quran stories are not copied from other sources:

16:103
We are fully aware that they say, "A human being is teaching him!" The tongue of the source they hint at is non-Arabic, and this is a perfect Arabic tongue.
وَلَقَد نَعلَمُ أَنَّهُم يَقولونَ إِنَّما يُعَلِّمُهُ بَشَرٌ لِسانُ الَّذى يُلحِدونَ إِلَيهِ أَعجَمِىٌّ وَهٰذا لِسانٌ عَرَبِىٌّ مُبينٌ
16:104
Surely, those who do not believe in God's revelations, God does not guide them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
إِنَّ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ لا يَهديهِمُ اللَّهُ وَلَهُم عَذابٌ أَليمٌ
16:105
The only ones who fabricate false doctrines/false stories are those who do not believe in God's revelations; they are the real liars.
إِنَّما يَفتَرِى الكَذِبَ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ وَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الكٰذِبونَ

Anyway brother, you will probably think I have got a double layer of veils over my face since I do not really understand what the above verses are saying?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Makaveli]

Peace Makaveli.
You need to know why Qoran tells you stories then you will see that "copied the stories" comes nowhere near.
You will also see that the Qoran s stories and the so called "original copies" differ for a good reason.
You will also deduce that GOD s story is the true version. Simply because GOD does not do lying or errors.

Present the difference and how Ibrahim idol shop or the Seven sleepers are exactly different from their historical counterparts?


Why would someone even bother replying when he has nothing constructive to say in response?

I underestimated you, good logic, your problem is way more severe than I have originally predicted.

16:103
We are fully aware that they say, "A human being is teaching him!" The tongue of the source they hint at is non-Arabic, and this is a perfect Arabic tongue.
وَلَقَد نَعلَمُ أَنَّهُم يَقولونَ إِنَّما يُعَلِّمُهُ بَشَرٌ لِسانُ الَّذى يُلحِدونَ إِلَيهِ أَعجَمِىٌّ وَهٰذا لِسانٌ عَرَبِىٌّ مُبينٌ

اعجمي - imprecise speech in general, not related to Arabic or any other language, root ayn-jiim-miim

مبين - disunion, two halves disunified and deluded in dualism, root ba-ya-nun, why it becomes "clear" or "understanding" is because originally this root comes from word, which symbolised a tent and a tent was divided into two halves, masculine and feminine, so each gender could "understand" where her or his tent is.

عربي - mixed, exchanging, merchandize, is not related to Modern Standard Arabic. Arabian Peninsula was named by Greek and Roman travellers, and not the "arabs" themselves, who originally, living in South Arabia, constituted a wide range of different Semitic-speaking tribes.

Again, jinn, en-geel, and more than 700 words are not of Arabic origin in the Qur'an.

The only ones who fabricate false doctrines/false stories are those who do not believe in God's revelations; they are the real liars.

Yes, and you should really be cautious over what you say, do, or think. As of now I see a load of compost coming from your thoughts, which you genuinely believe to be true and sinsere understanding.

And what the Quran القران‎ means I am not disclosing, earn such disclosure for yourself.

I am not responding to good logic anymore. I feel that this is counterproductive and leads myself into useless argument, something I try to avoid.

Feel free to work at Ministry of Truth where they juggle notes and verses and newspaper fronts as their every day practice.

[huruf]

Peace Makaveli.
You need to know why Qoran tells you stories then you will see that "copied the stories" comes nowhere near.
You will also see that the Qoran s stories and the so called "original copies" differ for a good reason.
You will also deduce that GOD s story is the true version. Simply because GOD does not do lying or errors.

GOD has got there before you and is telling you who the liars are:

Quran stories are not copied from other sources:

16:103
We are fully aware that they say, "A human being is teaching him!" The tongue of the source they hint at is non-Arabic, and this is a perfect Arabic tongue.
وَلَقَد نَعلَمُ أَنَّهُم يَقولونَ إِنَّما يُعَلِّمُهُ بَشَرٌ لِسانُ الَّذى يُلحِدونَ إِلَيهِ أَعجَمِىٌّ وَهٰذا لِسانٌ عَرَبِىٌّ مُبينٌ
16:104
Surely, those who do not believe in God's revelations, God does not guide them. They have incurred a painful retribution.
إِنَّ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ لا يَهديهِمُ اللَّهُ وَلَهُم عَذابٌ أَليمٌ
16:105
The only ones who fabricate false doctrines/false stories are those who do not believe in God's revelations; they are the real liars.
إِنَّما يَفتَرِى الكَذِبَ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ وَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الكٰذِبونَ

Anyway brother, you will probably think I have got a double layer of veils over my face since I do not really understand what the above verses are saying?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Smile, good logic, some things are too funny to get angry or even mildly disappointed. That, I feel is the part we "blind faithers" can enjoy. Reminds of the old joke which a can never get right, of the ant climbing up the elephantess leg with raping intentions.

Salaam 

[Makaveli]

Smile, good logic, some things are too funny to get angry or even mildly disappointed. That, I feel is the part we "blind faithers" can enjoy. Reminds of the old joke which a can never get right, of the ant climbing up the elephantess leg with raping intentions.

This basically summarizes what Mazhar and many other here are all about. Seeking refuge in their small harem, where women are captives and sex-slaves (who are incapable of making their own decisions and are deprieved of their feminine wisdom and intuition, seeking protection from their lords) and men are eunuchs (who are deprieved of their masculine characteristics, such as logic and willpower). The harem itself is a veil which covers their mind with age old dogmas and blind faith and their underage sarcasm is a defensive mechanism of their psyche, which is a fortress of their on-going delusion.

[good logic]

Peace Makaveli.
I reciprocate your comment back to you since you gave me the words. So you could say I "copied from you" like you claim Qoran has copied other sources. I therefore say the same to you, quote:

Yes, and you should really be cautious over what you say, do, or think. As of now I see a load of compost coming from your thoughts, which you genuinely believe to be true and sinsere understanding.

And since you wish to stop our conversation, I will stop as well.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Noon waalqalami]

Birmingham and Saan'a manuscripts were radiocarbonnaly dated to 585-633

There are no dots in the Bigmingham copy.

That means that the 22 letters of the ABJAD order did not include 6-7 additional

ok since you messed up now it's 6-7 missing instead of 12 missing. 

1.   1   أ   ʾalif
2.   2   ب   bāʾ
3.   3   ج   jīm
4.   4   د   dāl
5.   5   ه   hāʾ
6.   6   و   wāw
7.   7   ز   zāy
8.   8   ح   ḥāʾ
9.   9   ط   ṭāʾ
10.   10   ي   yāʾ
11.   20   ك   kāf
12.   30   ل   lām
13.   40   م   mīm
14.   50   ن   nūn
15.   60   س   sīn
16.   70   ع   ʿayn
17.   80   ف   fāʾ
18.   90   ص   ṣād
19.   100   ق   q̈āf
20.   200   ر   rāʾ
21.   300   ش   shīn
22.   400   ت   tāʾ
23.   500   ث   thāʾ
24.   600   خ   khāʾ
25.   700   ذ   dhāl
26.   800   ض   ḍād
27.   900   ظ   ẓāʾ
28.   1000   غ   ghayn

they didn't stop counting at 400 knew their language no need to dot some letters in script e.g.
900 ظ ẓā which is a completely different sound from 9   ط ṭā

4:11 للذكر to the male (i.e. gender) مثل similitude حظ ḥaẓẓi/apportion الانثىىن the two (females)

Makes no sense to read in context as حط and dots added later in scripts to teach the ignorant.
Likewise clearly visible in Birmingham manuscript dated 568-645 CE numerous dot examples.

400   ت tāʾ كتب kitābi/book (two dots ت tā)
500   ث thāʾ ثلث thalātha/three (three dots ث thā)

[Noon waalqalami]

Peace Noon waalqalami, could you give your translations/interpretations
of ayats 10:47, 16:36, 57:21 I would appreciate you taking time to do so.

                                   

peace, yes back to topic...

10:47 ولكل and to each امه community رسول messenger فاذا so when جا came رسولهم messenger theirs قضى decree بىنهم between them بالقسط in the justice وهم and they لا not ىظلمون wronged being

16:37 ان if تحرص thou desire على on هداهم guidance theirs فان so indeed الله the god لا not ىهدى guided من who ىضل misguided وما and not لهم for them من from/any ناصرىن helpers

51:27 فقربه so offered it الىهم to them قال said الا that/why not تاكلون thou eating

[hawk99]

peace, yes back to topic...

10:47 ولكل and to each امه community رسول messenger فاذا so when جا came رسولهم messenger theirs قضى decree بىنهم between them بالقسط in the justice وهم and they لا not ىظلمون wronged being

16:37 ان if تحرص thou desire على on هداهم guidance theirs فان so indeed الله the god لا not ىهدى guided من who ىضل misguided وما and not لهم for them من from/any ناصرىن helpers

51:27 فقربه so offered it الىهم to them قال said الا that/why not تاكلون thou eating

Thank you Noon waalqalami, I asked for 57:21 if you don't mind.

According to your translation does 10:47 refer to past, present, and
future messengers or to only messengers prior to Muhammad?

Thanx in advance

[Noon waalqalami]

Thank you Noon waalqalami, I asked for 57:21 if you don't mind.

you're welcome hawk99, garden is immeasurable كعرض like width universe 57:21 (sing) and universes 3:133 (pl) ?

57:21 سبقوا race ye of الى to مغفره forgiveness من from ربكم lord yours وجنه and garden عرضها width its كعرض like width السما the heaven/sky والارض and the land/earth اعدت prepared للذىن for the ones امنوا believes they of بالله in the god ورسله and messengers his ذلك such فضل bounty الله the god ىوتىه granted he من whom ىشا willed والله and the god ذو owner الفضل the bounty العظىم the major

3:133 وسرعوا and hasten ye of الى to مغفره forgiveness من from ربكم lord yours وجنه and garden عرضها width its السموت the heavens/skies والارض and the land/earth اعدت prepared للمتقىن for the righteous

According to your translation does 10:47 refer to past, present, and
future messengers or to only messengers prior to Muhammad?

see context past/present/future and past messengers cannot be messengers to the present.

10:47-49 ولكل and to each امه community رسول messenger فاذا so when جا came رسولهم messenger theirs قضى decree بىنهم between them بالقسط in the justice وهم and they لا not ىظلمون wronged being وىقولون and speaketh being/asking متى when هذا this الوعد the promise ان if كنتم be you صدقىن sincere? قل say لا not املك controls/has sovereignty لنفسى to soul mine/myself ضرا hurt of ولا and not نفعا benefit of الا except ما what شا wills الله the god لكل to each امه community اجل term اذا when جا came اجلهم term theirs فلا so not ىستاخرون delaying ساعه hour ولا and not ىستقدمون advancing

we only have the message and messenger/s can be anyone who relays/teaches the message.

peace!