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Author Topic: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::  (Read 2594 times)

Makaveli

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Re: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2018, 05:12:30 AM »
ok since you messed up now it's 6-7 missing instead of 12 missing.  :tempt:

What did I mess up? There are 6 additional letters added to the caligraphy from the South Arabian script, as well as six more letters which are not officially part of the modern alphabet, but are nonetheless used as if they were a part of the Quran, such as Ta Marbuta, or Aleph Maksura:

In addition to six ADDITIONAL SOUNDS there are :

1. Hamzah - was not available until 8-9th century;

2. Ta Marbuta ة - likewise;

and several more, albeit I do not remember to see Vah ﭪ for example in the Qur'an, but hamza and marbuta are frequent.

Even six additional sounds were not a part of Nabathean script, from which the Quran stems, not to mention six more additional letters.

Don't make silly conclusions if you do not understand what I am talking about in the first place.

Besides I am still waiting for a response to my previous question. If it is written in Arabic as you claim, why is it there are hundreds of foreign words which require special sounds? It's a third time I am asking this.

they didn't stop counting at 400 knew their language no need to dot some letters in script e.g.
900 ظ ẓā which is a completely different sound from 9   ط ṭā

Do you sinserely believe that is a convincing explanation? I guess this explanation helps you sleep well at night with your "translation".


Likewise clearly visible in Birmingham manuscript dated 568-645 CE numerous dot examples.

Occasional constonants added, in the context of what I said previously it does not matter. Occasional vowelizing in those horrible copies clearly looks as if they did not know what to do OR it was a schooling copy, which was meant to be washed over and over again.

In fact, ختم for instance, does not require خ and can be simply written as حتم with the same meaning of seal, mark, limit in most Semitic dialects, such as Hebrew חתם.
براتىشكا و فايحوشى

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hawk99

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Re: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2018, 04:44:39 PM »


see context past/present/future and past messengers cannot be messengers to the present.

10:47-49 ولكل and to each امه community رسول messenger فاذا so when جا came رسولهم messenger theirs قضى decree بىنهم between them بالقسط in the justice وهم and they لا not ىظلمون wronged being وىقولون and speaketh being/asking متى when هذا this الوعد the promise ان if كنتم be you صدقىن sincere? قل say لا not املك controls/has sovereignty لنفسى to soul mine/myself ضرا hurt of ولا and not نفعا benefit of الا except ما what شا wills الله the god لكل to each امه community اجل term اذا when جا came اجلهم term theirs فلا so not ىستاخرون delaying ساعه hour ولا and not ىستقدمون advancing

we only have the message and messenger/s can be anyone who relays/teaches the message.

peace!

Peace Noon waalqalami

Can 10:47 be translated thusly:

To each community, a messenger. After their messenger comes, they are
judged equitably, without the least injustice.

or:

And for every nation is a messenger. So when their messenger comes,
it will be judged between them in justice, and they will not be wronged

Thanx in Advance
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

jkhan

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Re: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2018, 10:16:16 PM »
MMKhan
Late reply... Just seen it.. . But still feel it's not gone off topic... 😉

If you feel you are right why you seem worried in your speech.. Follow what you feel right after verification...

14:4 If you feel that it is meant for Mohamed... It's fine.. But I don't see Mohamed's name inscribed in this verse...  In case if you didn't take this verse as example and still claimed that Mohamed or anyone was not your messenger.. I do agree with you... In fact as per QURAN No-one is your messenger who is not living and not giving messages.. Mohamed or any messenger was not sent to anyone in this world as Messenger but for those to whom they preached in their own language.. That's why they call O messenger of God.. Can we call O messenger of God... No... And no point calling a dead person by "O"... That's why they were asked to follow the messenger or even follow him... Once Mohamed the messenger of God passed away there is no messenger for the people who were born after his death... That's why in one verse Arabs were saying other two groups among us received messengers and if we receive we will be better than them.... They all were living close-by though... Sending a prophet or Messenger to a nation should be considered the greatest Mercy of God... Coz its a direct speech of God.. People ask questions and answers  coming from God through His Messenger..  Isn't it mercy... But we are not that fortunate... Okay as I always says guidance is not only from books.. Messengers cannot make one into guidance.. They can only preach in which has guidance with what is revealed but getting guided is from God not coz they had a messenger with them. If Mohamed is not our Messenger what to look for, for guidance.. Yes.. It is QURAN.. How can I say that so simply... Prophet Ibrahim was looking everything what God created for guidance till he gets convinced and guided.. So the approach towards guidance is instigated by God.. If one is born to a family where quran is given respect his approach was made thus ... But if someone is born to a family where quran has no place of respect then if still he approaches somehow means that's his guidance... Afteralll God drags those who are meant to be guided towards his straight path whatever the hindrances he or she has to face with... When God sealed Prophets with Mohamed...  Thats a question mark.. Why if they needed a prophet why we don't need?.. Are we not people? Are we not destined for hell or paradise.. Won't we be questioned? It's absolutely clear that God's mercy were with those who were given prophets and favored ..how unfortunate those who still didn't believe them by having a messenger day and night calling for right path.. .. Coz God knows how to take His balance few minority of people with His guidance... For that not required a prophet but preserving His last book will be enough...one could easily argue.. How much is population Now compared to yester years.. Still why not send a prophet? Don't we have questions to ask from a messenger... Yes we do.. No need to come this forum and ask doubts then... That God has decided not deserve.. Am I wrong.. No.. Other wise He won't seal His prophets with Mohamed...
36:28 And We sent not down against his People, after him, any hosts from heaven, nor was it needful for Us so to do.
The above verse is so crucial for me... In my understanding God stopped sending His angel messengers with hosts to that nation with messages... And was not required any more..
In the same way God has sealed His prophets with Mohamed.. So if anyone get guided after that is extremely fortunate and favored and instilled by God...

Okay let's get back to the point Mohamed is not our Messenger...
Let's look 67:8 and 39:71 what do those verses say...
Sahih International: And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, "Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "Yes, but the word of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers
    .......
above verses are very interesting...  Disbelievers are in hell or approaching it and Angels were asking... "Didn't a messenger come to you and recite the verses or warn?...  Question is... Did a messenger come to the current people who are alive or atleast to disbelievers?  That's beyond answer for many... ... But interestingly the verses didn't say like "Didn't Prophets come and recite and warn you.... "..thats a big difference...sealing prophets with Mohamed and how to ask Prophet didn't come and warn?...further,  we don't see a reply from those who are in hell saying No... No messenger came to us.. But strangely they say they messengers came and we were heedless....
Now we know No Prophet after Mohamed though he is not our Messenger... THEN WHO ARE THESE MESSENGERS THESE DISBELIVERS TALKING OF? or current Day disbelievers won't go to hell... Hmm.. That's not fair... Right... Mr. Khan.... Isn't the Quran  a messenger  to us? Do you think all those who are guided approached quran in Arabic?...  I got to agree that I didn't reach quran in Arabic coz I don't know what is written in it initially ..  But I kept reading in a language I know.... Guidance started to flow....  Later slowly wanted to verify with what is actually  written in Quran... But originally door opened to me in my own language... Do the verses 67:8 and 39:71 matches to me... If angels asks in case I am in hell.. Didn't the messengers come and recite?...  Can I say No?..in 17:15 it is said we don't punish without a messenger being sent.  So for example Tsunami which devastated in 2004... Is it from God?  Yes... Is it a punishment... Yes... Those who destroyed doing wrong?  Yes... Coz God doesn't punish with destruction good people.. That's clear with Quran... So.. Who was the messenger/s to those nations destroyed?...is it Quran?  One option... But have they all heard quran? That's doubtful... Then who were their messengers?...  Messengers can only be a human or everything that God has created... With creation only Ibrahim got his initial guidance... God says to some people in hell in Quran  35:37" Therein they shall shout, 'Our Lord, bring us forth, and we will do righteousness, other than what we have done.' 'What, did We not give you long life, enough to remember in for him who would remember? To you the warner came; taste you now! The evildoers shall have no helper.'
Here it is not mentioned as Messenger came but warmer (Nazeer) same as 67:8.. All Warners won't simply God assigned messengers... If you warn me with one of the Quranic verses.. Are you not a Warner... If one of the signs of God's creations warns me.. Isn't it a Warner... If a destruction of a society does warn you of some super natural power..doesnt it mean destruction is a Warner...in a long life one not gets all his her experiences as warning then he lived a selfish life doomed by satan...
34:28 and other relevant verses in which words like naas or alamin cannot be taken always as all the people of the world.. If you take all words of naas and alamin you will find they befit according to the context of the verses...

In my understanding  of Quran no one including Mohamed was your or our Messenger... But they were messengers and we should believe in them all equally... And no distinction among them...

shad

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Re: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2018, 12:40:33 AM »
1. First of all the word 'Muhammad' does not appear in the Quran.  Even when we are asked to say Shahada we say, "muhammadun rasool allah". The word Muhammadun is an adjective hence not a proper name. ‘Muhammadun’ in the verses 3:144, 33:40 and 48:29, and ‘Muhammadin’ in the verse 47:2. (Nunation (tanween) at the end of the word never comes after a name or proper noun in Arabic)
2. Rasool does not mean 'messenger', it means the message.  Out of about 300 places where rasool appears, many places it just cannot be translated as 'messenger'  (See 19:51 etc)
3. In 48:29 'muhammadun rasool allah' cannot be translated as "muhammad  IS  rasool of allah". If this is what God wanted to say, it would have been 'muhammad huwa rasool allah'. As it appears in the Quran, all translators translate it erroneously.
But the way it is in the Quran, it can only be translated as 'muhammadun of rasool of allah' or praiseworthy of the message of al-lah

Pease

frbnsn

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Re: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2018, 04:21:23 AM »
Salaamun all,

Whenever I see 14:4 it confirms me that Muhammad was not my Rasool.
I don't have to believe in him. I don't have to follow his teachings.

I don't know why people [who are around me] are not honest to themselves.
They say that they believe in alQuraan fully and also say that they accept each and every word of it, but they simply ignore this aayat.


Please take a look.

14:4  وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا بِلِسَانِ قَوْمِهِ لِيُبَيِّنَ لَهُمْ ۖ فَيُضِلُّ اللَّـهُ مَن يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ ۚ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ
14:4 And We did not send any messenger except in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

. Muhammad were not sent in my community / people.
. Muhammad did not speak my language.

So, how he can be my Rasool?
He was sent in Arabs, he was a Rasool for Arabs only and not for others.

These are my personal understandings. Please study and seek Allah's guidance. He is 'the best' Guide.
Is it necessary your own language to understand God's order?