Author Topic: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means  (Read 1600 times)

noshield30

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Hi everyone. I just wanted to point out that I've noticed recently, the beginning verses of the 9th surah:

9:5 So when the restricted months have
passed, then you may kill those who
have set up partners
wherever you find
them, take them, surround them, and
stand against them at every point. If they
repent, hold the contact prayer, and
contribute towards betterment, then you
shall leave them alone. God is
Forgiving, Compassionate.

As far as I know, 'those who have set up partners' are a reference to the polytheists in Mecca who were aggressive against the Prophet and his people in Medina, my question is why did God give one of the requirements to be spared from retaliation as 'hold the contact prayer'? It doesn't make any sense since they are polytheists in the first place therefore who would they hold the contact prayer/solat towards? Their polytheistic gods?? And if this verse implies that they should hold the contact prayer toward the monotheistic God (Allah) then wouldn't that mean that the muslims are ordered to convert the meccan polytheist into becoming believers by the use of force? This doesn't make sense either because in other parts of the Quran God made it clear that muslims are not to force anybody to convert. So this then brings us to another question, which is that maybe we have intrepeted 'solat/contact prayer' wrongly all this time? Maybe it's not some kind of religious ritual but something else, I'm not sure what exactly because I'm not good with Arabic. Hopefully people who are more familiar with the language can shed some light on this?

Anoushirvan

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 01:08:42 PM »
Salam !

You know, there are a lot of evidences that Arabia on the eve of 7th CE was not polytheist but monotheist.
For example, on the 5th CE, Sozomen of Gaza wrote that the "Saracens" were converted either to Christianity or Judaism.
South Arabia was Jewish and Christian.

If ever polytheism had remained at the beginning of 7th century, it was residual on the verge to disappear and couldn't justify Qur'an.

So when Qur'an accuses people to set-up partners with God, those people were actually monotheist.
If we could look at them, we would ask ourselves, what the heck did they do wrong ?

Novice

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 02:02:11 PM »
Hi everyone. I just wanted to point out that I've noticed recently, the beginning verses of the 9th surah:

9:5 So when the restricted months have
passed, then you may kill those who
have set up partners
wherever you find
them, take them, surround them, and
stand against them at every point. If they
repent, hold the contact prayer, and
contribute towards betterment, then you
shall leave them alone. God is
Forgiving, Compassionate.

As far as I know, 'those who have set up partners' are a reference to the polytheists in Mecca who were aggressive against the Prophet and his people in Medina, my question is why did God give one of the requirements to be spared from retaliation as 'hold the contact prayer'? It doesn't make any sense since they are polytheists in the first place therefore who would they hold the contact prayer/solat towards? Their polytheistic gods?? And if this verse implies that they should hold the contact prayer toward the monotheistic God (Allah) then wouldn't that mean that the muslims are ordered to convert the meccan polytheist into becoming believers by the use of force? This doesn't make sense either because in other parts of the Quran God made it clear that muslims are not to force anybody to convert. So this then brings us to another question, which is that maybe we have intrepeted 'solat/contact prayer' wrongly all this time? Maybe it's not some kind of religious ritual but something else, I'm not sure what exactly because I'm not good with Arabic. Hopefully people who are more familiar with the language can shed some light on this?

So what is your conclusion brother?

Wakas

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 02:52:41 AM »
You can read a whole article on this subject:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm

The only explanation that I've read by those who uphold the salat=prayer understanding is that this incident is an exception (for that time only, not now) etc. Whether one considers this explanation sensible/probable is another matter.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 09:35:30 AM »
You can read a whole article on this subject:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm

The only explanation that I've read by those who uphold the salat=prayer understanding is that this incident is an exception (for that time only, not now) etc. Whether one considers this explanation sensible/probable is another matter.

Simple academic rule is to study a text with reference to the time-frame mentioned therein.

Ayah 6 to 16 constitutes one Frame relating to a specific concept - event of the days of revelation of Qur'aan, concerning real-life situation faced by the Believers.


amin

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2018, 01:16:09 AM »
Reading more on this and other verses following, it gives me the idea that Mushrik as per Quran, is one who do not accept the common goodness and fail to contribute towards that and are against the proposal. The prophet a social worker and he wants to solve  social evils and suggest some ideas, the mshrik do not believe that and do not want to contribute their energy and money on it. Salat is accepting the common goodness(may be in the form of a ritual) proposed and zakat is to spend their time and money on that. Mushrik i think are those who do not accept the common goodness  as they think each of their God is different and completely against in contributing to the prophet's proposal.
Salat is maintaining unity in solving social issues, accepting the goodness proposal of the leader or prophet and Zakat is working towards it.

Here fighting/killing is not physical fight but instead to tell them they are wrong and argue the case and make them accept to the common goodness fold.

noshield30

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2020, 11:12:59 PM »
So what is your conclusion brother?

I still havent arrived on a conclusion. I suspect this is one of those things that will take me my whole life to try and understand.

jemby97

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Re: Verse in the Quran that brings doubt to what 'solat' really means
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 05:45:47 AM »
Salam Everyone,

This is my understanding on Salat.

Salat

1.   General Definition

Duty, Contractual Obligation, Following Closely, Adherence

2.   From Islamic/ Muslim context

Salat consist of 2 main portions or objectives

1.   It is the duty of each and every Muslims which have a contractual obligation to follow closely the commands given by God to us thru the Quran.
2.   To recite and learn the Quran daily (at least) twice a day. The best of time being at dawn and dusk.

3.   Contractual Obligation

Under 1:5 we said to God that “Unto You we served and unto You we seek help”. So, it is our contractual obligation to follow closely every command that God has given to us as per the Quran and it is our obligation to learn this Quran if we are to follow closely all that has been commanded to us to follow.

Amongst these are:

Don't lie (Q22:30)
Don't spy (Q49:12)
Don't insult (Q49:11)
Don't waste (Q17:26)
Feed the poor (Q22:36)
Don't backbite (Q49:12)
Keep your oaths (Q5:89)
Don't take bribes (Q27:36)
Honour your treaties (Q9:4)
Restrain your anger (Q3:134)
Don't spread gossip (Q24:15)
Think good of others (Q24:12)
Be good to guests (Q51:24-27)
Don't harm believers (Q33:58)
Don't be rude to parents (Q17:23)
Turn away from ill speech (Q23:3)
Don't make fun of others (Q49:11)
Walk in a humble manner (Q25:63)
Respond to evil with good (Q41:34)
Don't say what you don't do (Q62:2)
Keep your trusts & promises (Q23:8)
Don't insult others' false gods (Q6:108)
Don't deceive people in trade (Q6:152)
Don't take items without right (Q3:162)
Don't ask unnecessary questions (Q5:101)
Don't be miserly nor extravagant (Q25:67)
Don't call others with bad names (Q49:11)
Don't claim yourselves to be pure (Q53:32)
Speak nicely, even to the ignorant (Q25:63)
Don't ask for repayment for favours (Q76:9)
Make room for others at gatherings (Q58:11)
If enemy wants peace, then accept it (Q8:61)
Return a greeting in a better manner (Q4:86)
Don't remind others of the favours you have done to them (Q2:264)
Make peace between fighting groups (Q49:9)


These are only samples and as we learn and read the Quran there are more.

Thank you.

Joe