Author Topic: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive  (Read 319 times)

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 10749
  • Gender: Male
peace all,

I was reading some Quran calendar articles recently and agree that Al Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable/restricted months/full-moons/lunar-cycles (al ashar al haram) are consecutive (i.e. one after the other, 4 in a row), NOT like the Traditional Islamic calendar system wherein they are split up during the year.

From:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm

Chapter 9
1. An acquittal/release from The God and His messenger to those with whom you made a treaty from among the polytheists.
2. Therefore, roam the earth for four months and know that you will not escape The God, and that The God will disgrace the ungrateful/rejecters.
3. And an announcement from The God and His messenger to the people on the day of the greatest hajj/symposium: "The God is quit/free from the polytheists and so is His messenger". If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape The God. And give news to those who conceal/reject of a painful retribution.
4. Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among the polytheists if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall continue the treaty with them until its expiry. Truly, The God loves the forethoughtful/conscientious.
5. So when the restricted months are passed, then you may fight the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them...


The reason being if 9:2 "roam the earth/land for 4 months" referred to the Traditional Islamic calendar restricted months (which are 11th, 12th, 1st, and 7th months) then this would conflict with 9:5 because more than 4 months would pass before fighting was permitted, thus the months have to be consecutive, to align 9:2 and 9:5.

Seems such an obvious error in the Traditional Islamic calendar when compared to Quran, so perhaps I'm missing something, hence putting this out there for others to ponder.


This has been discussed before, e.g.
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606276.msg347768#msg347768
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601935.msg272743#msg272743
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11938.msg86061#msg86061

Background:
https://www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm
http://www.quranaloneislam.net/the-4-sacred-months-of-hajj
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

NewFrenzy

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 07:47:58 AM »
Why it's restricted? what is the wisdom behind it?

Rilum

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 139
  • Gender: Male
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2018, 06:21:42 AM »
Peace all,

"The reason being if 9:2 "roam the earth/land for 4 months" referred to the Traditional Islamic calendar restricted months (which are 11th, 12th, 1st, and 7th months) then this would conflict with 9:5 because more than 4 months would pass before fighting was permitted, thus the months have to be consecutive, to align 9:2 and 9:5."

No, it does not. 9:5 just mentions "restricted months" not "4 months", thus if the restricted months, which maybe splitted, have all passed, then they may fight.

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 08:23:26 AM »
No, it does not. 9:5 just mentions "restricted months" not "4 months", thus if the restricted months, which maybe splitted, have all passed, then they may fight.

Peace – no, would mean wait 8 to 12 lunar cycles depending on revelation time; word used is "foursome" not four.

9:2 فسىحوا so move about فى in الارض the land اربعه quartet (written with trailing "ه" i.e. group of 4 consecutive NOT any 4) اشهر ashhurin ...

9:5 فاذا so when انسلخ withdrew الاشهر l-ashhuru الحرم l-hurumu

9:36 ... اربعه quartet حرم hurumun

2:226 ... تربص wait اربعه quartet اشهر ashhurin

24:6 ... اربع four (written without "ه" )


brook

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2018, 07:56:38 PM »
I would rather say restricted moons than restricted months
because it is not the moons but the months that make up the YEAR.
 
The moons make up series of the moons (عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ as it is called in 9:36),
which is 12 moons or 13 moons. (This year it is 13).

The time of the 4 restricted moons
is the time when it is resricted to hunt wild animals (5:94, 95)
because they give birth to their babies and tend to them.

That is another proof that the 4 restricted moons are consecutive.

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Gender: Male
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2018, 08:27:06 PM »
I would rather say restricted moons than restricted months
because it is not the moons but the months that make up the YEAR.
 
The moons make up series of the moons (عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ as it is called in 9:36),
which is 12 moons or 13 moons. (This year it is 13).

The time of the 4 restricted moons
is the time when it is resricted to hunt wild animals (5:94, 95)
because they give birth to their babies and tend to them.

That is another proof that the 4 restricted moons are consecutive.
You may be on to something:

Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.

shahr n.m. (pl. shuhur and ashur) 2:185, 2:185, 2:194, 2:194, 2:197, 2:217, 2:226, 2:234, 4:92, 5:2, 5:97, 9:2, 9:5, 9:36, 9:36, 34:12, 34:12, 46:15, 58:4, 65:4, 97:3

LL, V4, p: 336, 337  ##http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=shhr

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 10749
  • Gender: Male
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2018, 10:34:06 AM »
peace Rilum,

Perhaps you can provide us with an example to put this to the test, e.g. lets number the months 1-12 and you simply provide a possible scenario based on the verses and let's see if it passes.

E.g. which month does the no fighting (roam) for 4 months begin etc. Just pick a month number, then pick whichever months are restricted that you want, total of 4. Any 4, or the traditional 4 etc.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12



peace Noon,

Peace – no, would mean wait 8 to 12 lunar cycles depending on revelation time; word used is "foursome" not four.

9:2 فسىحوا so move about فى in الارض the land اربعه quartet (written with trailing "ه" i.e. group of 4 consecutive NOT any 4) اشهر ashhurin ...

9:5 فاذا so when انسلخ withdrew الاشهر l-ashhuru الحرم l-hurumu

9:36 ... اربعه quartet حرم hurumun

2:226 ... تربص wait اربعه quartet اشهر ashhurin

24:6 ... اربع four (written without "ه" )


I noticed you mentioned this before but I personally never verified it. Have you checked ALL the occurrences of such in Quran and confirmed consistency? (i.e. no exceptions to this)

Thanks.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

brook

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2018, 12:19:22 PM »
You may be on to something:

Shiin-ha-Ra = make it notable/known/manifest/public/infamous (in a bad or good sense), hire/contract for a month, stay a month, month old, month, new moon, moon, full moon, any evil thing that exposes its author to disgrace, a vice/fault or the like, big & bulky, reputable/eminent.

shahr n.m. (pl. shuhur and ashur) 2:185, 2:185, 2:194, 2:194, 2:197, 2:217, 2:226, 2:234, 4:92, 5:2, 5:97, 9:2, 9:5, 9:36, 9:36, 34:12, 34:12, 46:15, 58:4, 65:4, 97:3

LL, V4, p: 336, 337  ##http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=shhr


The people who invented the so-called islamic calendar claim that their lunar year is made up of 12 moons.

But the claim
is baseless.

God's truth is this:

Each one of the 12/13 moons iN THE SKY
appears only in one particular season.

For example, the one which looks the brightest (shahr ramadan) appears at the beginning of hot summer
suggested by its name, ramadan, which means hot.

On the other hand,
each one of the moons ON PAPER (which is called islamic calendar)
appears in all 4 seasons.

They have got nothing to do with the moons created by God;
simply they are the months invented by man for the sake of the so-called islamic calendar.

The simple truth is that you can never make the year from the moons in the sky.

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2018, 09:30:24 PM »
peace Noon,

I noticed you mentioned this before but I personally never verified it. Have you checked ALL the occurrences of such in Quran and confirmed consistency? (i.e. no exceptions to this)

Thanks.

Peace Wakas – yes always check consistency; see examples especially 18:22 usage.

6:160/89:2 عشر ten (10)
2:196/5:89 عشره tentet (group of ten)

17:101/27:12 تسع nine (9)
27:48 تسعه nonet (group of nine)
74:30 تسعه nonet عشر ten (i.e. group of nineteen malāikatan)

2:29/2:261/12:43-48 سبع seven (7)
15:44/18:22 سبعه septet (group of seven)

4:3/35:1 وربعand four (4)
24:6/24:8 اربعfour (i.e. 4 times)
2:226/2:234/2:260/4:15/9:2/9:36 اربعه quartet (group of four)
24:4/24:13 باربعه with quartet (i.e. group of four witnesses)

4:3 وثلث and three (3)
2:196/2:228/3:41/4:171 ثلثه trio (group of three)



brook

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Quran strongly implies the 4 inviolable months are consecutive
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 08:58:52 PM »
There are twelve full moons
from hot full moon 2017 to hot full moon 2018,
so June 28 is 11 days EARLIER than July 09
(https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=2017&country=74):

01: Jul 09, 2017
02: Aug 07, 2017
03: Sep 06, 2017
04: Oct. 05, 2017
05: Nov 04, 2017
06: Dec 03, 2017
07: Jan. 02, 2018
08: Jan. 31, 2018
09: Mar. 02, 2018
10: Mar. 31, 2018
11: Apr. 30, 2018
12: May 29, 2018

But there are thirteen full moons
from hot full moon 2018 to hot full moon 2019,
so July 17 is 19 days LATER than Jun 28:

01: Jun 28, 2018
02: July 27, 2018
03: Aug 26, 2018
04: Sep 25, 2018
05: Oct. 24, 2018
06: Nov 23, 2018
07: Dec 22, 2018
08: Jan. 21, 2019
09: Feb 19, 2019
10: Mar 21, 2019
11: Apr 19, 2019
12: May 18, 2019
13: Jun 17, 2019

01: July 17, 2019
…

The first 4 full moons of each series are forbidden
as it is forbidden to hunt wild animals in them (5:94, 95),
so they are consecutive.

Each 13’th full moon
causes the following moons to appear 19 days later
and thus fixes them each in only 1 (one) season.

But the moons of the lunar year drift from season to season
because, for the sake of inventing the 12-moon year, moon 13 is postponed ON PAPER
although it is an increase in kufr (9:37) - زيادة في الكفر.

The moons IN THE SKY can never be postponed
becuse man's hand can never reach to them
and can never move them from where they are... even an inch.