Author Topic: Fast break timing far north  (Read 1275 times)

Counterbalance

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Fast break timing far north
« on: August 26, 2021, 11:32:45 AM »
Peace,

i have a question regarding the timing of breaking the fast.

It has been made permissible for you during the night of fasting
to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and
you are a garment for them. God knew that you used to betray
your souls, so He has redeemed you, and forgiven you; now you
may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And
you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from
the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until
night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the
temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress
them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people
that they may be righteous.
(Q2:187)

In this Verse it sais that we should fast until night. But living in the far north (e.g. norway) half of the year there is no night and half of the year its only night.
What am i supposed to do here? Same problem with salat, because in these places there is no day and night schedule like in "other" places.
Is there a solution to this problem in the Qur'an?

good logic

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2021, 01:22:23 PM »
How do people in Norway break the 24 hour  in heir normal daily life?

Qoran says do the best you can according to the situation you find yourself in.
In most countries the 24 hour is broken like this:
Dawn. sunrise to Noon, -Dhahirati- afternoon, sunset-twilight- Ghasak/dark night.

If daylight is 24 hours or night time is 24 hours , then we still need to break it into sections like this:
getting up time, breakfast and work, dinner time, afternoon time , teatime and sleep.
If I was under these circumstances, I would do fasting from getting up to teatime.  My salat will follow similar pattern to the sections above . Or feed the poor, help people  instead of fasting.
GOD knows where we are and our intentions.
Sirat Al Mustaqeem-straight path is the main message to all humans and through all the messengers and that does not require natural conditions or specific timing.
The rest like salat, sawm,...etc,which helps our taqwa, depends on circumstances and abilities. Special circumstances do exist in the natural world . Qoran allows for this like it does for emergencies ,  other conditions,disabilities...etc.
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
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Counterbalance

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2021, 02:37:00 PM »
So it is okay in that case to not fast until night (because its not possible) and just do the next best thing you can think of?
It would be amazing if there would be any clue to this case in the Qur'an. I just want to be sure. If not it is okay and God will guide us.

jemby97

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2021, 05:45:40 PM »
Salam CB and all,

Just want to ask you whether you can sight the moon during these summer months or winter nights?

Is it possible to see the moon during these times?

Thank you.

Joe

jemby97

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2021, 06:26:46 PM »
Salam CB and all,

To answer my own question, this is what i found on the astronomy page:

"Is the Moon always visible during winter on the North Pole?
At the North Pole during summer when there is permanent daylight, does the Moon rise and set, and if not, does that mean that during winter with no sunrise the Moon is always up?

The Moon does rise and and set during both summer and winter on the North Pole (or South Pole). The exact movement is complicated, but can be understood the combination of two separate movements:

1) Rotation of the Earth on its axis, which results in movements that change over the course of one day.

2) Orbit of the Moon around the earth, which results in movements that change over the course of one lunar month (about 29 days).

While the Moon does rise during the summer at the North Pole, since the Sun is always up, you generally can't see it, so I'll focus on the movement of the Moon during the winter.

The daily movement from Earth's rotation causes the Moon to circle once around the sky. If you spent the entire day staring at it, you'd have to turn around exactly once. This movement is also the same that the Sun makes during the summer. To give you a better idea of how this looks, here is a video showing how the Sun moves in the sky at the North Pole: Arctic Midnight Sun

The second movement caused by the Moon's orbit around the Earth is analogous to the movement of the Sun over the course of a year only it repeats over the course of a lunar month. Near the new Moon phase, the Moon is near the Sun and therefore never rises during the winter. As the Moon approaches full, it will start to pop up above the horizon. Eventually near the full Moon phase it will be high enough in the sky to stay up all day and circle like the Sun in the video above. The elevation of the circle will rise as the Moon becomes completely full and then start to decrease until it begins to dip below the horizon. Eventually the Moon will stop rising at all as it gets close enough to the new phase. The cycle then repeats."

But generally if you add weather and cloud cover I think it is generally quite difficult to see the moon during this time?.



Counterbalance

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2021, 08:06:37 PM »
Salam Joe,

the sun is visible for 6 months above horizon and hidden for 6 months below horizon.
The moon is visible for 2 weeks above horizon and hidden for 2 weeks below horizon.
When the sun is above horizon for 6 months, the moon is barely visible sometimes, but mostly not visible.
When the sun is below horizon for 6 months, the moon, if the weather allows it, is clearly visible when it is above horizon for 2 weeks.

jkhan

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2021, 09:45:03 PM »
Peace....
First of all fasting is not mandatory by any means... read who believers are 23:1-10 ... If you witness the hottest period and witness Moon then fast and if you don't just skip... No issues.. Follow what is described...

I know Scandinavia is so gorgeous and for human existence it looks good but not perfect with some harsh conditions for extended period... Even Alaska... That's almost paradise... But whole year is not same...  But somehow minute number of entire world population is now settled in these nations. Anyhow these were not the choice of human being to settle in large numbers and settle massive empires...  Thousands and thousands of years back some would have lived.. That's their choice..
Anyhow fasting is not must unless you don't witness the moon that's clear...

When it comes to Salat... It is to remember Allah  and nothing else... A believer whereever he is can remember God...  But Salat is time fixed.. It means with nature and that natural law undeniably suites to most of the places on earth except few landscapes where human population even to date is sparse...
Salat is based with sun...  And if that doesn't suit to where you live,  if in case I do live there I would remember God much but not perform according to Quran salat..  Coz God's nature described in Quran doest not support the place they live... Coz some human opted to live there though it is tough conditions...  All these Scandinavian and Greenland and Alaska and some part of Russia are looking heaven by nature but ancestors didn't populate there much... Mainly coz life conditions are tough and tough to the maximum without latest technology...

Being a believer and by not associating anything with Him and performing good deeds for example charity etc etc is what God looks from His creature human and Jin.. Simply not deny existence of God and meeting with him.. ...
If conditions are tough and not support then the person believer can decide if he is rich enough to emigrate... Just a choice. Coz God's earth is spacious...

Living in Antarctica and expecting Greenery is just myth.. So you can't expect God's law to be applied by choosing to live in places where conditions are tough and extraordinary...  God's earth is spacious...

But if I was born there and compelled to live there (North pole) ..  I would still fast even if it suits with explanation of Quran though it last three hours of sunlight
 And then darkness.. If witnessed moon in summer..

For Salat.. Two ends of nahar is impossible if sun never sets... So I would avoid.. But remember God and applaud him.. But not Salat.. But these are not permanent conditions to these countries throughout the year.. So salat can be performed when it allows...
Or if possible I would relocate within the same country where conditions much friendlier.. Southern Scandinavia is not same as northern Scandinavia.. Those who live there knows better.. I asked couple of guys who are from Sweden in this forum three years before whether they witness midnight sun there.. They didn't even know what midnight sun is still living in Sweden.. Lol..
So..  Hope everyone can adjust...
It is like.. How can you give charity in your town if everyone is rich.. Lol.. So choose a place out of your own town.. Find people who are poor...  So find a way to perform your duties to God if you are believer.. Just find a way.. If you don't have slave to deliver then go for other option.. Same.. Conditions doesn't suit just skip.. Find a good time.. Or do something that makes you closer to God.. Every deed is valuable with God..
29:45 as we can see rembrance of Allah greater importance ..
 
Let us die with guidance
https://youtube.com/@purposeofliving

good logic

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2021, 05:48:08 AM »
There are cases in Qoran about salat.  It is shortened in war and in special circumstances /disabilities/emergencies...
Similarly for sawm. in case of illness.
Say one goes to space for a month like astronauts,what would they do? They decide according to their schedule and plan.. One should find a private time to do their contact with GOD at approximate times among their daily break down of chores.
Sawm is an easy thing to do just abstain from getting up to the last meal before you prepare for bedtime approximately. That is what everyone else in the world does. or just help the poor more instead. GOD does not impose any hardship on us.

Our relationship with GOD is private,personal and is based on good intentions.
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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Counterbalance

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2021, 07:09:51 AM »
Thank you everyone for taking your time and posting what is floating in your headspace about this strange case.
Appreciate it a lot.
God bless you all.

Peace

jkhan

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Re: Fast break timing far north
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2021, 05:37:08 PM »
Thank you everyone for taking your time and posting what is floating in your headspace about this strange case.
Appreciate it a lot.
God bless you all.

Peace

Peace...

Self perceive it...  That's the best option...

otherwise many Many more activities in Quran may not be viable for those in Scandinavia...  For example.. God says believers stand up at night.. Read Quran at Fajr,  they discard their sleep..  There is sign in day and night... Our Lord brings the sun from East... But if sun never sets it won't come from east literally... By the sun and its brightness... By the glow of sunset... So many you can pick... These may not give much meaning when you happen to live your entire life six months in darkness and fix months probably sun not setting...
Does it mean God doesn't know these places on earth... Somehow God's law best suit to most of the places on earth...

https://youtu.be/U-TlmtQ7zIc
Nice video watch pls..
Let us die with guidance
https://youtube.com/@purposeofliving