Author Topic: 113:2  (Read 1221 times)

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2018, 08:57:04 AM »
On 113:2
God created Evil (in man) so that man can be/become good from his own existence, by eventually working against this evil in ourselves that God created for this sole reason. The challenge of evil/temptation serves the purpose of the creation of man.

On 4:79
Allah is the source of righteousness in man, like a torch. The human mind is connected to Allah and through the mind man follows Allah.
And with this light , from this torch, man can see properly and do the right thing and reap of his own actions. And without such light man cannot see and falls in the wrong and reap of his own actions too.

Makes sense ?


Not really actually because if you have noticed in 113:2, it doesn't say the exact words: God created evil. Instead it says:

Min sharri ma khalaqa (من شر ما خلق), if you noticed AL/THE & HUWA/HE does not occur. Let's take a look on the root word of sharri (شر):

Shiin-Ra-Ra = to do evil, be ill natured, wicked. yashirru/yasharru - to find fault, defame. sharrun (pl. ashrar) - evil, bad, wicked, vicious ones. It is noteable that shurrun is an exceptional form of elative adjective while the measure for elative in Arabic is afa'la. shararun (pl. ashraar) - sparks of fire.

sharar n.m. (coll) 77:32

sharr n.m. 2:216, 3:180, 5:60, 5:60, 8:22, 8:55, 10:11, 12:77, 17:11, 17:83, 19:75, 21:35, 22:72, 24:11, 25:34, 38:55, 38:62, 41:49, 41:51, 70:20, 72:10, 76:7, 76:11, 98:6, 99:8, 113:2, 113:3, 113:4, 113:5, 114:4

LL, V4, p: 248, 249  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=shrr

Now i had conversation with 2 of my friends in Facebook and this is what they told me so far about my question to you, my siblings:

Friend 1:

Selam akhi
A lot of people quote that to me as well and yes it is a mistranslation
From evil of what he created

It doesn’t mean he created evil but that he created and within his creation is evil or the option to be evil.

Of course Allah created everything but man he created balanced so we can sit the test. He  gave the option to go against their better judgment and do evil, so he didn’t create evil or man evil but he created man and within it is by their own choice the option to do evil.


Me:

I noticed the word "he" or "huwa" does not occur here which is also a mistranslation. Correct me if i am wrong though because my knowledge in Arabic is very poor.

Friend 1:

No it doesn’t
Your right akhi
Khalaqa doesn’t have he
So it would read from evil (of) what created



Now to the conversation of Friend 2:

Friend 2:

Here is the translation in connection with your last question :-
(Chapter 113)

Latest Rational & Academic Translation: “Proclaim O Messenger that “I seek protection only with the Lord of the entire creation (بِرَبِّ الْفَلَقِ  ), from the wickedness of His created ones; and from the darkness of evil (شرِّغَاسِقٍ ) when it has overspread and become prevalent (إِذَا وَقَبَ  ), and from the evil of the secret vicious allegiances (النَّفَّاثَاتِ) being agreed upon (فِي الْعُقَدِ  ); and from the evil of the jealous ones (حَاسِدٍ ) when they are bent on jealousy.”


Me:
Salam/Peace. I just noticed something in 113:2

The translation i am using as a example (Edip-Layth (Quran: A Reformist Translation)

Min sharri ma khalaqa

113:2 "From THE evil of what HE HAS created,"

Now i noticed that AL/The & HUWA/HE does not occur in the verse, So if we rechecked the verse in the original text, we may get this:

"From evil (of) what created"

I put "of" in parentheses just in case if the word is really part of the Arabic text. I have poor knowledge in Arabic language & it's grammar.

Friend 2:

Khalaqa is the past verb of the third form masculine.  Say (واحد، غائب، مذکر، ماضی ).  It means "he created".  So HE is already there. 

So when Quran is talking about men, so "maa khalaqa" is the ones he created, instead of "what he created".


Me:

"third form masculine" I thought it was third person?

Friend 2:

Yes, it is third person (غائب).

Cerberus

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2018, 09:31:04 AM »
Not really actually because if you have noticed in 113:2, it doesn't say the exact words: God created evil. Instead it says:
Min sharri ma khalaqa (من شر ما خلق), if you noticed AL/THE & HUWA/HE does not occur. Let's take a look on the root word of sharri (شر):

No that is what you are trying to prove to justify this contradiction, although your friend n°2 already said that your assumption is wrong from a classical arabic stand point.

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2018, 09:39:48 AM »
No that is what you are trying to prove to justify this contradiction, although your friend n°2 already said that your assumption is wrong from a classical arabic stand point.
Wait hold on, justify? My Friend 2 agrees with me that God did not create evil. I am very certain that it is a lie by the rejectors against the Creator. Besides if you look at sharri in it's grammar, it's in masculine singular genitive noun.  And one of the meanings of the root word "vicious ones". In no way do i wan't to justify a contradiction. Besides he said: Khalaqa is the past verb of the third form masculine.  Say (واحد، غائب، مذکر، ماضی ).  It means "he created".  So HE is already there. 

So when Quran is talking about men, so "maa khalaqa" is the ones he created, instead of "what he created".

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2018, 09:41:49 AM »
In 7:28 & 16:90:

7:28 واذا فعلوا فاحشة قالوا وجدنا عليها ءاباءنا والله امرنا بها قل ان الله لا يامر بالفحشاء اتقولون على الله ما لا تعلمون
Wa-itha faAAaloo fahishatan qaloowajadna AAalayha abaana waAllahuamarana biha qul inna Allaha laya/muru bialfahsha-i ataqooloona AAalaAllahi ma la taAAlamoona
And if they commit immorality, they say: "We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it." Say: "God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know?"

16:90 ان الله يامر بالعدل والاحسان وايتائ ذى القربىا وينهىا عن الفحشاء والمنكر والبغى يعظكم لعلكم تذكرون
Inna Allaha ya/muru bialAAadliwaal-ihsani wa-eeta-i theealqurba wayanha AAani alfahsha-i waalmunkariwaalbaghyi yaAAithukum laAAallakum tathakkaroona
God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.

Which i wonder, why would people translate Min sharri ma khalaqa as From the evil of what He created? That does not make sense. Allah (SWTAY) always criticizes evil and evildoers so why would He create evil? The translation does not make sense. In fact the verse before 113:1 it says:

113:1 قل اعوذ برب الفلق
Qul aAAoothu birabbi alfalaqi
Say: "I seek refuge with the Lord of the rising dawn,"

If you noticed, The Prophet said that "I seek refuge with the Lord of the rising dawn" and if you see the phrase "I seek refuge" means seeking safety which make sense since Allah (SWTAY) orders justice & goodness and prohibits vice & evil/immorality. Which would confuse me if 113:2 would be translated as "From the evil of what he created". Something tells me there is a misunderstanding due to the godless satanic hadiths are behind this.

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2018, 09:46:40 AM »
Although i admit that i could be wrong on the AL/THE & HUWA/HE part since i have said many times that my arabic is poor, especially classical arabic.

Cerberus

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2018, 10:15:53 AM »
Wait hold on, justify? My Friend 2 agrees with me that God did not create evil. I am very certain that it is a lie by the rejectors against the Creator.

So when Quran is talking about men, so "maa khalaqa" is the ones he created, instead of "what he created".[/b][/color]

Okay so you already made up your mind.

And if I understand you correctly your new thesis is that the verse means: " Of the evil of men who he created".

But where does the evil of men come from ? If you can fetch some quran verses and stitch them all together and copy paste everything here once again, that'd be great.

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2018, 10:24:32 AM »
Okay so you already made up your mind.

And if I understand you correctly your new thesis is that the verse means: " Of the evil of men who he created".

But where does the evil of men come from ? If you can fetch some quran verses and stitch them all together and copy paste everything here once again, that'd be great.
Actually i have not because i don't want to make any misleading against the Qur'an. Plus i don't remember stating "Of the evil of men who he created" in my replies. However i do believe that Allah (SWTAY) did not create evil because it would not make sense to make when He stated many times that he orders justice & goodness & prohibits evil/immorality, vice & transgression.


Salam/Peace.

"From evil (of) what created" I put "of" in parentheses just in case if the word is really part of the Arabic text. I have poor knowledge in Arabic language & it's grammar.


Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you!

I got that translation from Friend 1 but still i am not sure what 113:2 should be translated.

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2018, 10:28:19 AM »
If you can fetch some quran verses and stitch them all together and copy paste everything here once again, that'd be great.

It's best you can check and verify for yourself here:
http://quranix.org/s/evil

My advice to you is to check the arabic text and also to check the root word definition.

I still say that i am unsure how to translate 113:2 because i have poor Classical Arabic knowledge so i don't want to be misleading & inaccurate. It would be dishonest of me to do that.

The Sardar

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2018, 10:34:36 AM »
Besides i don't think i want to translate because i'm scared of making mistakes which would case problems for the people who want to research so it's best for me to not to translate.

Cerberus

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Re: 113:2
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2018, 10:41:49 AM »
Wait hold on, justify? My Friend 2 agrees with me that God did not create evil. I am very certain that it is a lie by the rejectors against the Creator.

You understand this is what I mean by having your mind made up ? You await people to agree with your statement (that God did not create Evil) and you don't want to even try to explore the possibility that God created Evil and you are certain it's a lie by the "rejectors".

But now I said, let's assume God did not create evil, then where does evil come from ?