Author Topic: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?  (Read 565 times)

NK

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 05:06:01 AM »
Peace Sardar,

I can share my understanding much much better in Urdu as compared to in English but i still try my best.  At any point you don't understand please let me know and i will try again.

There are basically two things in God's scheme in the story of Moses and Pharos. One is to show people that magic is false and has no divine power and then spread the message of ones of God through his messenger logically.

If you got the chance to read the ancient Egyptians history you would realise that Pharos were the gods and then the next category were Priests. Those priests were basically good scientist or engineers OR they get help from scientist and engineers to show people that they have divine powers from Pharos. Engineers or scientist don't tell priests how they did and priest never tell people about the reality. They need to show them some magic to get the believe on them that those powers given by Pharos. Those priest were basically act as a connection between Pharos and ordinary people.

For example, they had a system that if someone wants to enter the temple the doors open automatically just like when you go to shopping centre and doors open for you. They had underneath the temples a hydraulic system which activates when someone put weight on the specific rock. Similarly in the temple they need to wash the hands but not with ordinary water but with holy water. They need to put the coin in a small pot like thing which have simple lever system working in it. Due to the weight of the coin the lever push down and the specific amount of water flows from the opening and fills the cup. When the coin slips and fall in the pot the water stopped. Just like our vending machines. One last example that they have singing birds which runs the concept of cool steam. When cold steam comes out of the nostrils of the hand made birds it seems like birds are singing.

Why am i telling you these things to prove that at that time all those things were magic for ordinary illiterate people. They don't know how those things works. You can see the Egyptians Pyramids these days to realise how much advanced they were on their time.

Now comeback to the original topic. It can't be co-incident of the following things:

1. When Moses got the first revelation he saw fire and all his conversation with God was around the fire. Again support the theory that his staff was filled with mercury which i strongly believe that given by his step father Pharo. He was brought up in Pharo's temple but he was not interested in magic.
2. When God asked Moses to threw staff it moved like snake. It didn't turn into snake but moved "LIKE" snake. Two times in the Quran Allah mentioned it which again support this theory. 
3. God replied in chapter 20 verse 21   قَالَ خُذْهَا وَلَا تَخَفْ ۖ سَنُعِيدُهَا سِيرَتَهَا الْأُولَىٰ ﴿٢١﴾. God used the word  "سِيرَتَهَا" and not  "صُورَةٍ" which means staff  "سِيرَتَ" was changed again supports the theory.
4. The time which magicians choose for competition was interesting.
5. God knew before that Pharos would not be impressed by this act and in order to defeat Moses he would gather people to show them that he had greater magician then Moses in order to strengthen his grip. This is the time to expose their lies. People would never believe Moses until their lies not exposed.
6. When Moses got those two signs from God the verses after that were very interesting in chapter 20. He said : Moses] said, "My Lord, expand for me my breast [with assurance] (25) And ease for me my task (26) And untie the knot from my tongue (27) That they may understand my speech. (28). Again support my theory that God's scheme was to expose their lies and then spread the message of God.

This is my understanding. People don't have to agree with me but it is more logical.

Peace,
NK

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5954
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 06:22:39 AM »
I do not think anything can be proved about the story of Musa and Fir3awn studying the history of Anciente Egypt, because nothing tin the Qur'an suggests that Musa was there or that those wvents took pace in Egypt or that the kings of Egypt were in any way involved in them. Fir3awn is at most a small city lord of some place, but not of Wfypt least o all king of Egypt.

Also, a lot can be read about the history of Acient Egypt but a big trouble with it is that it is mostly shaped from what the Bible and, less but also, the ideas shaped by Roman and Greek cultural conceptions. One has to pick very carefully about what one reads concerning Ancient Egyptian history.

So, we are back to square one: To prove or understand the Qur'an we should stick to the Qur'an and sound reasonning. Bringing purported history into the fray will set us back into importing ,once more, bilbical understandings into the Qur'an, without taking duly into account what the Qur'an itself is there to convey.

So, I am asking again, if anybody feels like answering, of course as they see it:
 
What is it with Musa and his staff, is it a miracle, is it a symbolic spiritual meaning, is it an idiom or some idioms?

Salaam
 

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2018, 06:23:42 AM »


1. When Moses got the first revelation he saw fire and all his conversation with God was around the fire. Again support the theory that his staff was filled with mercury which i strongly believe that given by his step father Pharo. He was brought up in Pharo's temple but he was not interested in magic.
2. When God asked Moses to threw staff it moved like snake. It didn't turn into snake but moved "LIKE" snake. Two times in the Quran Allah mentioned it which again support this theory. 
3. God replied in chapter 20 verse 21   قَالَ خُذْهَا وَلَا تَخَفْ ۖ سَنُعِيدُهَا سِيرَتَهَا الْأُولَىٰ ﴿٢١﴾. God used the word  "سِيرَتَهَا" and not  "صُورَةٍ" which means staff  "سِيرَتَ" was changed again supports the theory.
4. The time which magicians choose for competition was interesting.
5. God knew before that Pharos would not be impressed by this act and in order to defeat Moses he would gather people to show them that he had greater magician then Moses in order to strengthen his grip. This is the time to expose their lies. People would never believe Moses until their lies not exposed.
6. When Moses got those two signs from God the verses after that were very interesting in chapter 20. He said : Moses] said, "My Lord, expand for me my breast [with assurance] (25) And ease for me my task (26) And untie the knot from my tongue (27) That they may understand my speech. (28). Again support my theory that God's scheme was to expose their lies and then spread the message of God.
What are the arabic words? So i can show everyone the root word meanings.

Edit* I found one of them which i think it's seerataha (سيرتها)

Siin-Ya-Ra (س ي ر) = to go, travel, be current, move, journey. sairun - the act of giving, journey. siratun - state/condition, make/form. sayyaratun - company of travellers, caravan.

sara vb. (1)
perf. act. 28:29
impf. act. 12:109, 22:46, 30:9, 35:44, 40:21, 40:82, 47:10, 52:10
impv. 3:137, 6:11, 16:36, 27:69, 29:20, 30:42, 34:18
n.vb. 34:18, 52:10

sayyarah n.f. 5:96, 12:10, 12:19

sirah n.f. 20:21

sayyara vb. (2) impf. act. 10:22, 18:47
perf. pass. 13:31, 78:20, 81:3

LL, V4, p: 207, 208  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=syr

NK

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2018, 08:15:34 AM »
Peace Sardar,

Please check Lane’s dictionary, you will find few examples.

Salam
NK

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2018, 09:38:26 AM »
Peace Sardar,

Please check Lane’s dictionary, you will find few examples.

Salam
NK
Salam/Peace i will post the pages from Lane's Lexicon of Siin-Ra-Yaa





IsaMuslim

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 104
  • Gender: Male
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 07:25:10 AM »
I do not think anything can be proved about the story of Musa and Fir3awn studying the history of Anciente Egypt, because nothing tin the Qur'an suggests that Musa was there or that those wvents took pace in Egypt or that the kings of Egypt were in any way involved in them. Fir3awn is at most a small city lord of some place, but not of Wfypt least o all king of Egypt.

Also, a lot can be read about the history of Acient Egypt but a big trouble with it is that it is mostly shaped from what the Bible and, less but also, the ideas shaped by Roman and Greek cultural conceptions. One has to pick very carefully about what one reads concerning Ancient Egyptian history.

Peace,

how do you explain that Egypt was always called "Misr" from waaay long before the Qur'an?

Why would Allah call another place "Misr" if the people of that time knew "Misr" as Egypt? Where is Misr if it is not Egypt, what is the Qur'anic evidence that it is not?

The Qur'anic evidence that it is indeed Egypt, or a part of it, is present today:

The Qur'an says that the body of Pharaoh was preserved and made as a sign for us, Maurice Bucaille found the body of a Pharaoh named Ramses II whose autopsy revealed that he died from drowning, and a while later it was made into a mummy.

The Qur'an also mentioned Haman, and after centuries of Christians mocking the Qur'an because Haman in the Bible is another character, ancient hieroglyphs showed clearly the name "Haman" as the chief of the stone quarry workers.

The Qur'an also mentioned that Haman was commanded to build a tower, using baked clay, and recently a group of scientist discovered that some parts of the pyramid of Giza are not entirely made of limestone, but of baked clay.
https://www.livescience.com/1554-surprising-truth-great-pyramids-built.html

So, we are back to square one: To prove or understand the Qur'an we should stick to the Qur'an and sound reasonning. Bringing purported history into the fray will set us back into importing ,once more, bilbical understandings into the Qur'an, without taking duly into account what the Qur'an itself is there to convey.

Mohammed was not in doubt about the Book of Moses reaching him:

And We have given Moses the Book; so do not be in any doubt about meeting Him its reaching; and We made it a guide for the Children of Israel.
32:23

Jesus was also taught the Torah:

And He teaches him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.
3:48

We should not reject the Biblical Books that easy, in them is still the Guidance. Said that, in them there is also the additions and omission of men. We are the readers and we must be wise in interpreting it, and not rejecting it altogether. The Qur'an is the last Book of the Bible, and their verses are often linked together.
The Qur'an was revealed to correct not to substitute the previous inspired Books.

On Topic:

I watched the video, and I find his view very interesting, except that I have a few problems...
If Moses did prepare the staff himself with magic, why was he scared when he threw it the first time?
Why does Allah ask Moses to use the staff when crossing the sea? Can mercury produce such a thing?
How did the golden calf use to emit sounds/cries? The Sumerian tells Aaron and Moses that "he noticed something that the others did not", so he grab soil from where Moses walked, and cast it into the calf. Most likeley, he saw the staff of Moses producing some kind of special effect.
Is he who is based on proof from his Lord, as he for whom his evil works have been adorned for him and they followed their desires?
~ 47:14 ~

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5954
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 08:36:57 AM »
Misr is a common name, which like for instance in London with the name The City, may be made into a proper name for those who know it so, but basically it is not the name of a place but the common name for peopled places. Egypt was not called Misr in ancient Egyptian nor in older Arabic. Cairo, today is called Masr, as it would be called the City, because it was very populated, the same as when people living around a town, calle such a town, merely town.

Fir3awn is a proper name, not a title. The kings of Egypt were kings, not  pharaoh or anything like that, that was borrowed from the Bible which took a proper name, Firwawn, and made a title out of it for its particular purposes.

As to the Qur'an,
Did Egypt have several gates to enter itas the sons of Ya3ub are told to enter thorugh different gates? 

Has God levelled the pyramids or the sphinx or the ancient Egptian temples as it is said that He would have done in 7.138 if in fact He is referring to Egypt? Did the King of Egypt have to recruit people from hamlets in order to go after Musa's people as it is depicted int he Qur'an Fir3awn did? The things that re adscribed to a misr in the Qur'an cannot apply to Egypt, to Ancient Egypt. It does nto match, not at all.

m-S-r is an Arabic root which means:
found, settle, civilise, colonize; to become a propulated, civilised area, become a city, a metropolis,

misr: city, metropolis, capital,


Salaam

/*JM*/

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2018, 09:52:19 AM »
For another approach, you may wish to have a look at this post
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12328.msg96637#msg96637

Peace

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2018, 10:21:21 AM »
For another approach, you may wish to have a look at this post
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12328.msg96637#msg96637

Peace
Salam/Peace JM, what are your thoughts on the video and this:
Okay i found 3 verses that mentions the snake or serpent as Abu Layth Al-Maliki mentioned and it's 7:107, 20:20 and 26:32 and i think it's best that i should show the verses with context in arabic because i am uncertain the translation for this topic and it's going to be a long list so please, have patience and read:



7:100 اولم يهد للذين يرثون الارض من بعد اهلها ان لو نشاء اصبناهم بذنوبهم ونطبع علىا قلوبهم فهم لا يسمعون
Awa lam yahdi lillatheena yarithoonaal-arda min baAAdi ahliha an law nashao asabnahumbithunoobihim wanatbaAAu AAala quloobihimfahum la yasmaAAoona

7:101 تلك القرىا نقص عليك من انبائها ولقد جاءتهم رسلهم بالبينات فما كانوا ليؤمنوا بما كذبوا من قبل كذالك يطبع الله علىا قلوب الكافرين
Tilka alqura naqussu AAalaykamin anba-iha walaqad jaat-hum rusuluhum bialbayyinatifama kanoo liyu/minoo bima kaththaboomin qablu kathalika yatbaAAu Allahu AAalaquloobi alkafireena

7:102 وما وجدنا لاكثرهم من عهد وان وجدنا اكثرهم لفاسقين
Wama wajadna li-aktharihimmin AAahdin wa-in wajadna aktharahum lafasiqeena

7:103 ثم بعثنا من بعدهم موسىا باياتنا الىا فرعون وملايه فظلموا بها فانظر كيف كان عاقبة المفسدين
Thumma baAAathna min baAAdihim moosabi-ayatina ila firAAawna wamala-ihifathalamoo biha faonuthurkayfa kana AAaqibatu almufsideena

7:104 وقال موسىا يافرعون انى رسول من رب العالمين
Waqala moosa yafirAAawnu innee rasoolun min rabbi alAAalameena

7:105 حقيق علىا ان لا اقول على الله الا الحق قد جئتكم ببينة من ربكم فارسل معى بنى اسراءيل
Haqeequn AAala an laaqoola AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa qadji/tukum bibayyinatin min rabbikum faarsil maAAiya banee isra-eela

7:106 قال ان كنت جئت باية فات بها ان كنت من الصادقين
Qala in kunta ji/ta bi-ayatinfa/ti biha in kunta mina alssadiqeena

7:107 فالقىا عصاه فاذا هى ثعبان مبين
Faalqa AAasahu fa-ithahiya thuAAbanun mubeenun

7:108 ونزع يده فاذا هى بيضاء للناظرين
WanazaAAa yadahu fa-itha hiya baydaolilnnathireena

7:109 قال الملا من قوم فرعون ان هاذا لساحر عليم
Qala almalao min qawmi firAAawnainna hatha lasahirun AAaleemun

7:110 يريد ان يخرجكم من ارضكم فماذا تامرون
Yureedu an yukhrijakum min ardikumfamatha ta/muroona

7:111 قالوا ارجه واخاه وارسل فى المدائن حاشرين
Qaloo arjih waakhahu waarsilfee almada-ini hashireena

7:112 ياتوك بكل ساحر عليم
Ya/tooka bikulli sahirin AAaleemin

7:113 وجاء السحرة فرعون قالوا ان لنا لاجرا ان كنا نحن الغالبين
Wajaa alssaharatufirAAawna qaloo inna lana laajran in kunnanahnu alghalibeena

7:114 قال نعم وانكم لمن المقربين
Qala naAAam wa-innakum laminaalmuqarrabeena

7:115 قالوا ياموسىا اما ان تلقى واما ان نكون نحن الملقين
Qaloo ya moosa immaan tulqiya wa-imma an nakoona nahnu almulqeena

7:116 قال القوا فلما القوا سحروا اعين الناس واسترهبوهم وجاءو بسحر عظيم
Qala alqoo falamma alqaw saharooaAAyuna alnnasi waistarhaboohum wajaoobisihrin AAatheemin

7:117 واوحينا الىا موسىا ان الق عصاك فاذا هى تلقف ما يافكون
Waawhayna ila moosaan alqi AAasaka fa-itha hiya talqafu maya/fikoona

7:118 فوقع الحق وبطل ما كانوا يعملون
FawaqaAAa alhaqqu wabatala makanoo yaAAmaloona

7:119 فغلبوا هنالك وانقلبوا صاغرين
Faghuliboo hunalika wainqalaboosaghireena

7:120 والقى السحرة ساجدين
Waolqiya alssaharatu sajideena

7:121 قالوا ءامنا برب العالمين
Qaloo amanna birabbialAAalameena

7:122 رب موسىا وهارون
Rabbi moosa waharoona

20:9 وهل اتىاك حديث موسىا
Wahal ataka hadeethu moosa

20:10 اذ رءا نارا فقال لاهله امكثوا انى ءانست نارا لعلى ءاتيكم منها بقبس او اجد على النار هدى
Ith raa naran faqalali-ahlihi omkuthoo innee anastu naran laAAallee ateekumminha biqabasin aw ajidu AAala alnnarihudan

20:11 فلما اتىاها نودى ياموسىا
Falamma ataha noodiya yamoosa

20:12 انى انا ربك فاخلع نعليك انك بالواد المقدس طوى
Innee ana rabbuka faikhlaAAnaAAlayka innaka bialwadi almuqaddasi tuwan

20:13 وانا اخترتك فاستمع لما يوحىا
Waana ikhtartuka faistamiAAlima yooha

20:14 اننى انا الله لا الاه الا انا فاعبدنى واقم الصلواة لذكرى
Innanee ana Allahu lailaha illa ana faoAAbudnee waaqimi alssalatalithikree

20:15 ان الساعة ءاتية اكاد اخفيها لتجزىا كل نفس بما تسعىا
Inna alssaAAata atiyatunakadu okhfeeha litujza kullu nafsin bimatasAAa

20:16 فلا يصدنك عنها من لا يؤمن بها واتبع هوىاه فتردىا
Fala yasuddannaka AAanhaman la yu/minu biha waittabaAAa hawahufatarda

20:17 وما تلك بيمينك ياموسىا
Wama tilka biyameenika ya moosa

20:18 قال هى عصاى اتوكؤا عليها واهش بها علىا غنمى ولى فيها مارب اخرىا
Qala hiya AAasaya atawakkaoAAalayha waahushshu biha AAala ghanameewaliya feeha maaribu okhra

20:19 قال القها ياموسىا
Qala alqiha ya moosa

20:20 فالقىاها فاذا هى حية تسعىا
Faalqaha fa-itha hiya hayyatuntasAAa

Here is something i noticed, Hayyatun (حية) come from the root word Ha-Ya-Ya (ح ي ي) and from what i seen in PRL (Project Root-List) it does not mentioned the meaning snake or serpent:

Ha-Ya-Ya = (a doubly imperfect verb) To live, be alive, be ashamed, spend (the night) awake, fertilize the earth, keep anyone alive; spare any one, let anyone alive, remove prudency, modesty and shamefulness, make immodest, To be in good condition, have the means of subsistence, to be apparent or distinct, have prolonged or preserved life, free from evil or harm, have dominion, be honored, receive benefit, to salute, to enliven/revive/give life to, to nourish, vivify/re-vivify/revive/resuscitate, endue/quicken with life, (said of land) to be tilled and made productive, to remain awake, to shrink from a thing, to forbear, to feel or have a sense of or be moved or affected with shame/shyness/bashfulness, be ashamed/shy of doing a thing, disdain or scorn a thing, abstain from a thing/refuse to do it. (http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm)

20:21 قال خذها ولا تخف سنعيدها سيرتها الاولىا
Qala khuthha walatakhaf sanuAAeeduha seerataha al-oola

20:22 واضمم يدك الىا جناحك تخرج بيضاء من غير سوء ءاية اخرىا
Waodmum yadaka ila janahikatakhruj baydaa min ghayri soo-in ayatan okhra

20:23 لنريك من ءاياتنا الكبرى
Linuriyaka min ayatinaalkubra

20:24 اذهب الىا فرعون انه طغىا
Ithhab ila firAAawna innahu tagha

20:25 قال رب اشرح لى صدرى
Qala rabbi ishrah lee sadree

20:26 ويسر لى امرى
Wayassir lee amree

20:27 واحلل عقدة من لسانى
Waohlul AAuqdatan min lisanee

20:28 يفقهوا قولى
Yafqahoo qawlee

20:29 واجعل لى وزيرا من اهلى
WaijAAal lee wazeeran min ahlee

20:30 هارون اخى
Haroona akhee

20:31 اشدد به ازرى
Oshdud bihi azree

20:32 واشركه فى امرى
Waashrik-hu fee amree

20:33 كى نسبحك كثيرا
Kay nusabbihaka katheeran

20:34 ونذكرك كثيرا
Wanathkuraka katheeran

20:35 انك كنت بنا بصيرا
Innaka kunta bina baseeran

20:36 قال قد اوتيت سؤلك ياموسىا
Qala qad ooteeta su/laka yamoosa

20:37 ولقد مننا عليك مرة اخرىا
Walaqad mananna AAalayka marratanokhra

20:38 اذ اوحينا الىا امك ما يوحىا
Ith awhayna ilaommika ma yooha

20:39 ان اقذفيه فى التابوت فاقذفيه فى اليم فليلقه اليم بالساحل ياخذه عدو لى وعدو له والقيت عليك محبة منى ولتصنع علىا عينى
Ani iqthifeehi fee alttabootifaiqthifeehi fee alyammi falyulqihi alyammu bialssahiliya/khuthhu AAaduwwun lee waAAaduwwun lahu waalqaytuAAalayka mahabbatan minnee walitusnaAAa AAalaAAaynee

20:40 اذ تمشى اختك فتقول هل ادلكم علىا من يكفله فرجعناك الىا امك كى تقر عينها ولا تحزن وقتلت نفسا فنجيناك من الغم وفتناك فتونا فلبثت سنين فى اهل مدين ثم جئت علىا قدر ياموسىا
Ith tamshee okhtuka fataqoolu haladullukum AAala man yakfuluhu farajaAAnaka ilaommika kay taqarra AAaynuha wala tahzanawaqatalta nafsan fanajjaynaka mina alghammi wafatannakafutoonan falabithta sineena fee ahli madyana thumma ji/ta AAalaqadarin ya moosa

20:41 واصطنعتك لنفسى
WaistanaAAtuka linafsee

20:42 اذهب انت واخوك باياتى ولا تنيا فى ذكرى
Ithhab anta waakhooka bi-ayateewala taniya fee thikree

20:43 اذهبا الىا فرعون انه طغىا
Ithhaba ila firAAawnainnahu tagha

20:44 فقولا له قولا لينا لعله يتذكر او يخشىا
Faqoola lahu qawlan layyinanlaAAallahu yatathakkaru aw yakhsha

20:45 قالا ربنا اننا نخاف ان يفرط علينا او ان يطغىا
Qala rabbana innananakhafu an yafruta AAalayna aw an yatgha

20:46 قال لا تخافا اننى معكما اسمع وارىا
Qala la takhafainnanee maAAakuma asmaAAu waara

20:47 فاتياه فقولا انا رسولا ربك فارسل معنا بنى اسراءيل ولا تعذبهم قد جئناك باية من ربك والسلام علىا من اتبع الهدىا
Fa/tiyahu faqoola innarasoola rabbika faarsil maAAana banee isra-eelawala tuAAaththibhum qad ji/naka bi-ayatinmin rabbika waalssalamu AAala mani ittabaAAaalhuda

20:48 انا قد اوحى الينا ان العذاب علىا من كذب وتولىا
Inna qad oohiya ilaynaanna alAAathaba AAala man kaththaba watawalla

20:49 قال فمن ربكما ياموسىا
Qala faman rabbukuma yamoosa

20:50 قال ربنا الذى اعطىا كل شىء خلقه ثم هدىا
Qala rabbuna allatheeaAAta kulla shay-in khalqahu thumma hada

20:51 قال فما بال القرون الاولىا
Qala fama balualqurooni al-oola

20:52 قال علمها عند ربى فى كتاب لا يضل ربى ولا ينسى
Qala AAilmuha AAinda rabbeefee kitabin la yadillu rabbee walayansa

26:10 واذ نادىا ربك موسىا ان ائت القوم الظالمين
Wa-ith nada rabbukamoosa ani i/ti alqawma alththalimeena

26:11 قوم فرعون الا يتقون
Qawma firAAawna ala yattaqoona

26:12 قال رب انى اخاف ان يكذبون
Qala rabbi innee akhafu anyukaththibooni

26:13 ويضيق صدرى ولا ينطلق لسانى فارسل الىا هارون
Wayadeequ sadree walayantaliqu lisanee faarsil ila haroona

26:14 ولهم على ذنب فاخاف ان يقتلون
Walahum AAalayya thanbun faakhafuan yaqtulooni

26:15 قال كلا فاذهبا باياتنا انا معكم مستمعون
Qala kalla faithhababi-ayatina inna maAAakum mustamiAAoona

26:16 فاتيا فرعون فقولا انا رسول رب العالمين
Fa/tiya firAAawna faqoola innarasoolu rabbi alAAalameena

26:17 ان ارسل معنا بنى اسراءيل
An arsil maAAana banee isra-eela

26:18 قال الم نربك فينا وليدا ولبثت فينا من عمرك سنين
Qala alam nurabbika feenawaleedan walabithta feena min AAumurika sineena

26:19 وفعلت فعلتك التى فعلت وانت من الكافرين
WafaAAalta faAAlataka allatee faAAaltawaanta mina alkafireena

26:20 قال فعلتها اذا وانا من الضالين
Qala faAAaltuha ithanwaana mina alddalleena

26:21 ففررت منكم لما خفتكم فوهب لى ربى حكما وجعلنى من المرسلين
Fafarartu minkum lamma khiftukumfawahaba lee rabbee hukman wajaAAalanee mina almursaleena

26:22 وتلك نعمة تمنها على ان عبدت بنى اسراءيل
Watilka niAAmatun tamunnuha AAalayyaan AAabbadta banee isra-eela

26:23 قال فرعون وما رب العالمين
Qala firAAawnu wama rabbu alAAalameena

26:24 قال رب السماوات والارض وما بينهما ان كنتم موقنين
Qala rabbu alssamawatiwaal-ardi wama baynahuma in kuntummooqineena

26:25 قال لمن حوله الا تستمعون
Qala liman hawlahu alatastamiAAoona

26:26 قال ربكم ورب ءابائكم الاولين
Qala rabbukum warabbu aba-ikumual-awwaleena

26:27 قال ان رسولكم الذى ارسل اليكم لمجنون
Qala inna rasoolakumu allatheeorsila ilaykum lamajnoonun

26:28 قال رب المشرق والمغرب وما بينهما ان كنتم تعقلون
Qala rabbu almashriqi waalmaghribiwama baynahuma in kuntum taAAqiloona

26:29 قال لئن اتخذت الاها غيرى لاجعلنك من المسجونين
Qala la-ini ittakhathta ilahanghayree laajAAalannaka mina almasjooneena

26:30 قال اولو جئتك بشىء مبين
Qala awa law ji/tuka bishay-in mubeenin

26:31 قال فات به ان كنت من الصادقين
Qala fa/ti bihi in kunta mina alssadiqeena

26:32 فالقىا عصاه فاذا هى ثعبان مبين
Faalqa AAasahu fa-ithahiya thuAAbanun mubeenun

26:33 ونزع يده فاذا هى بيضاء للناظرين
WanazaAAa yadahu fa-itha hiya baydaolilnnathireena

26:34 قال للملا حوله ان هاذا لساحر عليم
Qala lilmala-i hawlahu inna hathalasahirun AAaleemun

26:35 يريد ان يخرجكم من ارضكم بسحره فماذا تامرون
Yureedu an yukhrijakum min ardikumbisihrihi famatha ta/muroona

26:36 قالوا ارجه واخاه وابعث فى المدائن حاشرين
Qaloo arjih waakhahu waibAAathfee almada-ini hashireena

26:37 ياتوك بكل سحار عليم
Ya/tooka bikulli sahharin AAaleemin

26:38 فجمع السحرة لميقات يوم معلوم
FajumiAAa alssaharatu limeeqatiyawmin maAAloomin

26:39 وقيل للناس هل انتم مجتمعون
Waqeela lilnnasi hal antummujtamiAAoona

26:40 لعلنا نتبع السحرة ان كانوا هم الغالبين
LaAAallana nattabiAAu alssaharatain kanoo humu alghalibeena

26:41 فلما جاء السحرة قالوا لفرعون ائن لنا لاجرا ان كنا نحن الغالبين
Falamma jaa alssaharatuqaloo lifirAAawna a-inna lana laajran in kunnanahnu alghalibeena

26:42 قال نعم وانكم اذا لمن المقربين
Qala naAAam wa-innakum ithanlamina almuqarrabeena

26:43 قال لهم موسىا القوا ما انتم ملقون
Qala lahum moosa alqoo maantum mulqoona

26:44 فالقوا حبالهم وعصيهم وقالوا بعزة فرعون انا لنحن الغالبون
Faalqaw hibalahum waAAisiyyahumwaqaloo biAAizzati firAAawna inna lanahnualghaliboona

26:45 فالقىا موسىا عصاه فاذا هى تلقف ما يافكون
Faalqa moosa AAasahufa-itha hiya talqafu ma ya/fikoona

26:46 فالقى السحرة ساجدين
Faolqiya alssaharatu sajideena

26:47 قالوا ءامنا برب العالمين
Qaloo amanna birabbialAAalameena

26:48 رب موسىا وهارون
Rabbi moosa waharoona

26:45 فالقىا موسىا عصاه فاذا هى تلقف ما يافكون
Faalqa moosa AAasahufa-itha hiya talqafu ma ya/fikoona

Now here is something interesting, talqafu (تلقف) in in it's root word (Lam-Qaf-Fa - ل ق ف) means To catch up hurriedly, seize, swallow up quickly, destroy, undo, eat up, catch and retain, collapse, fall upon the enemy, crumble down and Ya/Fikoona in it's root word (Alif-Fa-Kaf - أ ف ك) means:

change its manner/state, turn it away/back, change/pervert opinion/judgement, deceive, lie/falsehood/untruth, overturn, seduce.

And look at that the derivatives!

Ya'fikuuna (imp. 3rd. p. m. plu.): They feign, make a false show.
Ta'fiku (imp. 2nd. p. m. plu.): Thou turn away, seduce.
Tu'fikuuna (pip. 2nd. p. plu.): You are turned away.
Ufika (pp. 3rd. p. m. sing.): He was turned away, was deluded away.
Yu'faku (pip. 3rd. p. m. sing.): He is turned away.
Yu'fakuuna (pip. 3rd. p. m. plu.): They are turned away.
Ifkun (n.): Lie; Slander.
Affaak (n): Big slanderer.
Mu'tafikatu (ap-der. f. sing. VIII): Subverted; Overturned; Pulled down (city).
Mu'taftUt (ap-der. f. plu. VIII): Subverted.



What are the arabic words? So i can show everyone the root word meanings.

Edit* I found one of them which i think it's seerataha (سيرتها)

Siin-Ya-Ra (س ي ر) = to go, travel, be current, move, journey. sairun - the act of giving, journey. siratun - state/condition, make/form. sayyaratun - company of travellers, caravan.

sara vb. (1)
perf. act. 28:29
impf. act. 12:109, 22:46, 30:9, 35:44, 40:21, 40:82, 47:10, 52:10
impv. 3:137, 6:11, 16:36, 27:69, 29:20, 30:42, 34:18
n.vb. 34:18, 52:10

sayyarah n.f. 5:96, 12:10, 12:19

sirah n.f. 20:21

sayyara vb. (2) impf. act. 10:22, 18:47
perf. pass. 13:31, 78:20, 81:3

LL, V4, p: 207, 208  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=syr

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5954
Re: Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2018, 11:40:41 AM »
For another approach, you may wish to have a look at this post
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12328.msg96637#msg96637

Peace
[/quote

Quote
According to you, God has helped Moses through miracles. However, God has refused to do the same to Muhammad.
My question is : why did God change his way ?

My response to this question is that God has not changed his way, and that, the verses where you see He helps Moses through miracles have to be understood metaphorically.

What is yours?

As a side note, the people who are said to be disbelievers in the verses who are quoted are not simply asking a question ; they are demanding miracles, because they cannot believe in God without miracles. And this is because they cannot believe in God without miracles that they are said to be disbelievers.

**********************

Now, let?s go back to the story with Moses, Pharaoh and his magicians.
There are 2 episodes to this story :
1) Moses talks to Pharaoh
2) Moses talks to the magicians Pharaoh has gathered

Let?s see how the first episode is narrated in 2 different places in the Quran :
   
[20:49-57] : He said: ?So who is the lord of you both O Moses??
He said: ?Our Lord is the One who gave everything its creation, then guided.?
He said: ?What then has happened to the previous generations??
He said: ?It?s knowledge is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget.?
The One who made for you the Earth habitable and He made ways for you in it, and He brought down water from the sky, so We brought out with it pairs of vegetation of all types.
Eat and raise your livestock, in that are signs for those of thought.
From it We created you and in it We return you, and from it We bring you out another time.
And We showed him Our signs, all of them, but he denied and refused.
He said: ?Have you come to us to take us out of our land with your magic O Moses??

[7:103-110] : Then after them We sent Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh and his leaders. But they did wrong in them, so see how is the end of the corrupters.
And Moses said: ?O Pharaoh, I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds.?
?It is not proper for me to say about God except the truth; I have come to you with proof from your Lord. So send with me the Children of Israel.?
He said: ?If you have come with a sign then bring it, if you are of the truthful??
He threw down his staff and it manifested into a serpent.
And he drew out his hand, and it became pure white for the onlookers.
The commanders from among the people of Pharaoh said: ?This is a knowledgeable magician!?
?He wishes to drive you out of your land; what is your command??

In the first account ([20:49-57]), Moses explains to Pharaoh all the signs of the universes. He shows the signs of God exactly in the same way as in the Quran.
And, in the second account ([7:103-110]), Moses turns his staff into a serpent, and show his hand white.

My understanding is that the second account is a metaphor of the first one. It means that the discourse of Moses was so convincing that it was as if he has turned a staff into a serpent.

If you want to check the dictionary, you will see that a white hand (yad baida) can mean an argument very clear, a demonstrating, a demonstrated argument, an allegation, or an evidence.

Good explanation, sound.

Miracle is just another word for saying "I do not know how it happenned, or how it was done".

As soon as we know how something was done we stop believing it is a miracle.

The fact is tht we think we know how many things are done, but the fact is that ONLY GOD knows how He does thing, and He is the one who does absolutely  everything. And that there is nothing that is not a miracle. To believe in miracles means that the person who believes that does not believe that everyhting is a miracle, because neither we can replicate it nor can we explain it completely, although many times we may think we do know, but we just know something, a little bit.

I disagree with the people who believe in miracles because they really are not appreciating God's creation, if they did they would realise that there is nothing that is not a miracle.

Salaam