Author Topic: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?  (Read 1933 times)

The Sardar

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Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« on: June 07, 2018, 12:17:13 PM »
It seems Kashif Khan does not like this website for 86:6-7 translation

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/free-minds-cheated-translation-verse-867-cover-lies-invented-khan/

ajzhyder

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 07:34:53 PM »
https://wordpress.com/post/topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2465

The above post also reviews this topic in a different way.

The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 08:14:44 PM »
https://wordpress.com/post/topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2465

The above post also reviews this topic in a different way.
This link is a bit busted. It says "You don't have any WordPress sites yet."

The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 10:15:18 PM »
Is this the one you are referring to? https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/01/08/reproductive-fluids-mentioned-in-865-7/


بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

Sura Tariq (86) Ayas 5-7 are given below:

فَلْيَنظُرِ الْإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ  خُلِقَ مِن مَّاءٍ دَافِقٍ  يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ
Thus, a human being should see from what he is created! (He is) created from flowing water, which emits from between the loins and the ribs.

Some people have objected to these Ayas, that the understanding does not conform to the current scientific knowledge. However, this objection is because they consider these Ayas as referring solely to male reproduction system.

Before we review these Ayats, please consider meanings of some words and phrases in above Ayas as given below:

?Sulb? (ص ل ب) is used in the meaning of ?Loins? when referring to one?s progeny. In Ayat 4:23, the word ?Aslabikum? is used in the sense of ?Loins?, وَحَلَائِلُ أَبْنَائِكُمُ الَّذِينَ مِنْ أَصْلَابِكُمْ

As per  Lane Arabic to English Dictionary (page 1712) , this word is used as ?Loins? when referring to one?s progeny.

?Taraib?  mainly refers to the chest and rib bones area for both males and females but mostly for females. See Lane?s dictionary relevant page 301.

So the term ?Bainas Sulbe wat-traib? ( بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ), would mean between the loins and the chest/rib area. This is the area  where female ?Uterus? and ?ovaries? are located in females.

We know that both males and females eject reproductive fluids in the reproductive process. The reproductive fluid from male is emitted from ?Sulb? (loins) area of male and  in female from ?Bainas Sulbe wat-traib? (between loins and ribs) area. It is when both these fluids come together that a human being is created. Only male or female reproductive fluids alone would not create a human, rather when both these fluids come together and a unique ?droplet? is created. This happens in the female ?Taraib? area. The reference in the said Ayas is therefore, more likely in the context of female uterus which is located between the loins and the ribs.

 

 

Notes:

With reference to the Male reproductive system, the trigger mechanism or point of origin of orgasm is in the sacral nerve root found along the spine, located between the loins and chest area vertically.

Quote from Wikipedia:
 ?The semen is ejected through the urethra with rhythmic contractions.[4] These rhythmic contractions are part of the male orgasm. They are generated by the bulbospongiosus and pubococcygeus muscles under the control of a spinal reflex at the level of the spinal nerves S2-4 via the pudendal nerve.

Wakas

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All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2018, 07:12:21 AM »
Salam/Peace brother Wakas, thank you for the links, one of the replies from 2005:

Quote
peace ichephren,

Firstly, nice to see you post again. Now, onto your Q...

It has been discussed previously (the search function at the top of this forum is extremely helpful):
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3062


The bold part with the link sadly does not work and the word alttara-ibi (الترائب) does not mean testicles,

Ta-Ra-Ba (ت ر ب) = To have much earth, have dust in the hands, dusty, be destitute, poverty, neediness, misery, suffering loss. Poor man intimately acquainted with his mother earth. He sank from the wealth.
Soil/earth/dust.
Cemetery, burial-place, grave.
Contemporary friend, companion, match/fellow/equal, suiting the age and matching in all other aspects, peer, one having similar tastes/habits/views.
Breast, breast bones, chest, ribs.

Plus Joseph Islam made an article about this as well: http://quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2086-7%20FM3.htm

Lane's Lexicon Volume 1, Page 337



Lane's Lexicon Volume 1, Page 338


The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2018, 07:21:37 AM »
So what do you think of Kashif's article, Wakas?

Wakas

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 07:37:30 AM »
I only skim read it. I have not studied this issue again in detail so cant really comment. The sensationalist wording and emotional rhetoric he uses is quite pathetic.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2018, 08:59:51 AM »
I only skim read it. I have not studied this issue again in detail so cant really comment. The sensationalist wording and emotional rhetoric he uses is quite pathetic.
Bold: Oh? How so? Not defending him by the way.

The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2018, 10:23:23 AM »
Forgot to post this root word as well:

Sad-Lam-Ba (ص ل ب) = to put to death by crucifixion, extract marrow from bones. salb - a well known way of killing, crucifying. salabahuu - he put him to death in a certain well known manner, he crucified. aslaab (pl. of sulbun) - backbones, loins. masluub - crucified. saliibun - put to death in a certain well known manner.

salaba vb. (1)
perf. act. 4:157
impf. pass. 12:41

sulb n.m. (pl. aslab) 4:23, 86:7

sallaba vb. (2)
impf. act. 7:124, 20:71, 26:49
impf. pass. 5:33

Lane's Lexicon Volume 4, Page 435



Lane's Lexicon Volume 4, Page 436



Lane's Lexicon Volume 4, Page 437


The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2018, 06:22:18 AM »
It's alright everyone, i can wait for answers.  :)

The Sardar

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 03:00:44 AM »
While i shall wait for answers, i think i should the entire chapter (It's only 17 verses) in arabic text because i am very hesitant to show the translation.
Hopefully those who are experts in the Quranic Arabic.


Here are the verses:

86:1 والسماء والطارق
Waalssama-i waalttariqi

86:2 وما ادرىاك ما الطارق
Wama adraka ma alttariqu

86:3 النجم الثاقب
Alnnajmu alththaqibu

86:4 ان كل نفس لما عليها حافظ
In kullu nafsin lamma AAalayha hafithun

86:5 فلينظر الانسان مم خلق
Falyanthuri al-insanumimma khuliqa

86:6 خلق من ماء دافق
Khuliqa min ma-in dafiqin

86:7 يخرج من بين الصلب والترائب
Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttara-ibi

86:8 انه علىا رجعه لقادر
Innahu AAala rajAAihi laqadirun

86:9 يوم تبلى السرائر
Yawma tubla alssara-iru

86:10 فما له من قوة ولا ناصر
Fama lahu min quwwatin wala nasirin

86:11 والسماء ذات الرجع
Waalssama-i thati alrrajAAi

86:12 والارض ذات الصدع
Waal-ardi thati alssadAAi

86:13 انه لقول فصل
Innahu laqawlun faslun

86:14 وما هو بالهزل
Wama huwa bialhazli

86:15 انهم يكيدون كيدا
Innahum yakeedoona kaydan

86:16 واكيد كيدا
Waakeedu kaydan

86:17 فمهل الكافرين امهلهم رويدا
Famahhili alkafireena amhilhum ruwaydan


Hopefully someone with great knowledge in Arabic would come and give a good answer for everyone. Salam/Peace & Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you.

Mughal1

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Re: Free-Minds cheated in translating 86:6-7?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2018, 05:31:50 PM »
https://allahsword.com/pdf/The_Quran_English_Translation_by_Abdel_Haleem.pdf

Problem is verse فَلۡيَنظُرِ ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ (٥ says so let the man reflect upon from what it was created.

So is it referring to initial creation in the evolutionary stage?

Here is Dr Shabbir's understanding from QXP:

86:5 فَلۡيَنظُرِ ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ
Let the human being, then, consider out of what he has been created. [And realize
the common origin of all mankind. Has there not passed over man an era
when he was not even worth mentioning? 76:1]

86:6 خُلِقَ مِن مَّآءٍ۬ دَافِقٍ۬
He has been created from turbulent water. [21:30, 24:45]

86:7 يَخۡرُجُ مِنۢ بَيۡنِ ٱلصُّلۡبِ وَٱلتَّرَآٮِٕبِ
That issued from between tough rocks and mingled dust. [Sulb = Hard = Tough =
Strong, Rocky, as given in Taajil 'Uroos and Muheet. Turaab = Dust, with
Turaaib as its plural in Taajil Urus. Mountains, rocky as pegs, along with
the glacier systems and snow tops and sources of rivers, have been described
as water reservoirs in many verses: 13:3, 15:19, 31:10, 39:5, 77:27, 79:28-
30, 88:20. For the origin of life on the planet and creation of the human
being, including the beginning of life through water, dust, hydrated inorganic
matter etc, here are given some important references for the research-minded
reader: 4:1, 6:2, 6:38, 6:99, 7:11, 11:6, 11:61, 15:26, 21:30, 23:12-14, 24:45,
25:54, 30:20, 31:28, 32:7-9, 35:11, 36:77, 39:6, 40:64-67, 51:49, 53:45, 55:14,
71:14, 76:2-3, 86:5-7, 96:1-2. My rendition of three terms used in 86:6-
7 respectfully differs from other translations. We know how valuable the
principle of Tasreef-il- Ayaat is. Now, here are those three terms along with
their erroneous translations: - 'Ma-in-Dafiq': A drop emitted, seminal fluid
or gushing fluid. - 'Sulb': Man's ribs, man's loins. - 'Turaib': Pelvic arch of
woman, back-bone and the ribs, spine and the viscera of man and/or woman,
sacrum of man or woman. But keeping in view the lexicon and the Tasreef
given above, my humble rendition of these verses is probably more sound and
reflects the original magnificence to an extent]