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:: Why do you believe that alQuraan is sent down from Allah? ::

Started by mmkhan, June 05, 2018, 05:53:12 PM

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Why do you believe that alQuraan is sent down from Allah?

I believe so because I born in a Muslim family
1 (5.9%)
I believe so because I read and understood it in my language and found it to be unique
7 (41.2%)
I believe so because of challenges given in alQuraan to produce a sura like in it
8 (47.1%)
I don't believe that alQuraan is from Allah, but some intelligent people wrote it
0 (0%)
I don't believe that alQuraan is from Allah, but HUM or WE [some other creation] sent it
2 (11.8%)
I don't believe that alQuraan is from Allah as it has many contradictions
2 (11.8%)
I don't care if it is from Allah or not, it doesn't matter, I just take what is good from it
3 (17.6%)
I don't want to answer this question
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

wiseman

Many years ago, I tried to prove God exists, but I could not prove it or I was not convinced.
When I tried to prove that God does not exist, I came to believe there was and is a God, it can only be one.

Many years passed, I tried to prove that the Quran is from God, but I could not and still cannot.

If there is a cancer curing medicine, and if you want me to prove it can cure cancer, I can only do so by giving it to a cancer patient and seeing the improvement. If you want me to prove the effectiveness of the medicine without testing it on patient, but only based on chemical formula, you need to be very highly skilled and very knowledgeable biochemist to understand it. Testing the medicine on a number of cancer patients may not convince you of its effectiveness totally and not known side effects does not mean it does not have side effect. In a similar way, it is impossible to prove Quran, word for word, totally and without any doubt, being from God. We, all humans put together, do not have sufficient knowledge to prove it. To prove it, you need an evidence to every single statement, that is an infinite number of evidences to prove it beyond doubt. But to reject it, you only need one evidence.

If one wants to convince himself of Quran being from God, he could follow Quran to test it and live by it. Still there is no end to the testing. More positive evidences do not mean there is no negative ones, and hearts will not contend and doubts will remain. So one can try to find just one evidence to refute it, or even better try to a write a book or chapter similar to it. Most hearts will accept with peace when it fails to find even one single evidence to reject something. So you can ask your friend to prove that the Quran is not from God.

One does not need to prove every word of Quran is true and from God. One only needs to know there is one God, and live a righteous life. One finds himself turning evil when he always try to be the best person among. Debating on every single verse of Quran, wanting to be the best interpreter or holder of truth may lead a person astray too. If you believed you have seen or understood or exposed to an open evidence of God and thought there will never be any doubt in your faith, think again, Satan believes in God beyond doubt, and was in much better place than anyone of us here.

burhan

Quote from: The Sardar on June 11, 2018, 11:27:59 PM
Divides? I am sorry but how exactly does he divide the community when that community had a history bad misdeeds. Plus he doesn't force you, i never seen a verse saying that the prophet must cause a inner community conflict.

A prophet demands that people believe in him. Those who don't believe in him are called disbelievers. Now you have two groups.

Non-believers are evil, sick, enemies of God etc, simply for not believing the prophet.  Even if they do good things they will still go to hell. 5:72, 3:85 etc.

This type of language is hateful and dangerous, sadly it has made come back in politics and you can see the affects.

Don't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language. Is God so tiny and vain that he needs to insult his own creation.

Swap the word disbeliever in Quran with quranist and see how you feel.

Remember Rashad Khalifia, he demanded that people believe in him and Code 19. Those of us who didn't believe what were they called?

Ingrates, blind, ungrateful etc ... for what crime? All the hate that his followers like Edip used to spout was directly from the Quran.

What about you? Do you think Sunni or Shia will go to heaven?



Peace.

The Sardar

Quote from: burhan on June 13, 2018, 04:36:37 PM

Non-believers are evil, sick, enemies of God etc, simply for not believing the prophet.  Even if they do good things they will still go to hell. 5:72, 3:85 etc.

This type of language is hateful and dangerous, sadly it has made come back in politics and you can see the affects.

Don't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language. Is God so tiny and vain that he needs to insult his own creation.

Salam/Peace burhan. I happen to check the verses you shown but i happen also to check the verses before and after, here is what i found:

3:69 ودت طائفة من اهل الكتاب لو يضلونكم وما يضلون الا انفسهم وما يشعرون
Waddat ta-ifatun min ahli alkitabilaw yudilloonakum wama yudilloona illaanfusahum wama yashAAuroona
A group from the people of the Book wished that they could misguide you, but they only misguide themselves and they do not notice.

3:70 يااهل الكتاب لم تكفرون بايات الله وانتم تشهدون
Ya ahla alkitabi limatakfuroona bi-ayati Allahi waantumtashhadoona
"O people of the Book, why do you reject the revelations of God while you are bearing witness?"

3:71 يااهل الكتاب لم تلبسون الحق بالباطل وتكتمون الحق وانتم تعلمون
Ya ahla alkitabi limatalbisoona alhaqqa bialbatili wataktumoonaalhaqqa waantum taAAlamoona
"O people of the Book, why do you confound the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

3:72 وقالت طائفة من اهل الكتاب ءامنوا بالذى انزل على الذين ءامنوا وجه النهار واكفروا ءاخره لعلهم يرجعون
Waqalat ta-ifatun min ahlialkitabi aminoo biallathee onzilaAAala allatheena amanoo wajha alnnahariwaokfuroo akhirahu laAAallahum yarjiAAoona
And a group from among the people of the Book said: "Believe in what was sent down to those who believe during the beginning of the day, and reject it by the end of it, perhaps they will return."

3:73 ولا تؤمنوا الا لمن تبع دينكم قل ان الهدىا هدى الله ان يؤتىا احد مثل ما اوتيتم او يحاجوكم عند ربكم قل ان الفضل بيد الله يؤتيه من يشاء والله واسع عليم
Wala tu/minoo illa limantabiAAa deenakum qul inna alhuda huda Allahian yu/ta ahadun mithla ma ooteetum aw yuhajjookumAAinda rabbikum qul inna alfadla biyadi Allahiyu/teehi man yashao waAllahu wasiAAunAAaleemun
"And do not believe except in he who follows your system." Say: "The guidance is the guidance of God." That anyone should be given similar to what you have been given, or that they debate with you at your Lord. Say: "The bounty is in the hand of God, He gives it to whom He chooses, and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable."

3:74 يختص برحمته من يشاء والله ذو الفضل العظيم
Yakhtassu birahmatihi man yashaowaAllahu thoo alfadli alAAatheemi
He singles out with His mercy whom He chooses, and God is with Great Bounty.

3:75 ومن اهل الكتاب من ان تامنه بقنطار يؤده اليك ومنهم من ان تامنه بدينار لا يؤده اليك الا ما دمت عليه قائما ذالك بانهم قالوا ليس علينا فى الامين سبيل ويقولون على الله الكذب وهم يعلمون
Wamin ahli alkitabi man in ta/manhubiqintarin yu-addihi ilayka waminhum man in ta/manhubideenarin la yu-addihi ilayka illa madumta AAalayhi qa-iman thalika bi-annahum qaloolaysa AAalayna fee al-ommiyyeena sabeelun wayaqooloonaAAala Allahi alkathiba wahum yaAAlamoona
And from among the people of the Book are those whom if you entrust him with a large amount he gives it back to you, and there are those whom if you entrust with one gold coin he will not return it to you unless you are standing over him. That is because they said: "We have no obligation towards the Gentiles." They say about God lies while they know.

3:76 بلىا من اوفىا بعهده واتقىا فان الله يحب المتقين
Bala man awfa biAAahdihi waittaqafa-inna Allaha yuhibbu almuttaqeena
Indeed, anyone who fulfils his pledge and is righteous, then God loves the righteous.

3:77 ان الذين يشترون بعهد الله وايمانهم ثمنا قليلا اولائك لا خلاق لهم فى الءاخرة ولا يكلمهم الله ولا ينظر اليهم يوم القيامة ولا يزكيهم ولهم عذاب اليم
Inna allatheena yashtaroona biAAahdiAllahi waaymanihim thamanan qaleelan ola-ikala khalaqa lahum fee al-akhirati walayukallimuhumu Allahu wala yanthuruilayhim yawma alqiyamati wala yuzakkeehim walahumAAathabun aleemun
The ones who purchase with the pledge of God and their oaths a cheap price, those will have no portion in the Hereafter, and God will not speak to them, nor will He look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they will have a painful retribution.

3:78 وان منهم لفريقا يلون السنتهم بالكتاب لتحسبوه من الكتاب وما هو من الكتاب ويقولون هو من عند الله وما هو من عند الله ويقولون على الله الكذب وهم يعلمون
Wa-inna minhum lafareeqan yalwoonaalsinatahum bialkitabi litahsaboohu minaalkitabi wama huwa mina alkitabiwayaqooloona huwa min AAindi Allahi wama huwa minAAindi Allahi wayaqooloona AAala Allahi alkathibawahum yaAAlamoona
And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

3:79 ما كان لبشر ان يؤتيه الله الكتاب والحكم والنبوة ثم يقول للناس كونوا عبادا لى من دون الله ولاكن كونوا ربانين بما كنتم تعلمون الكتاب وبما كنتم تدرسون
Ma kana libasharin anyu/tiyahu Allahu alkitaba waalhukmawaalnnubuwwata thumma yaqoola lilnnasikoonoo AAibadan lee min dooni Allahi walakinkoonoo rabbaniyyeena bima kuntum tuAAallimoonaalkitaba wabima kuntum tadrusoona
It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather: "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."

3:80 ولا يامركم ان تتخذوا الملائكة والنبين اربابا ايامركم بالكفر بعد اذ انتم مسلمون
Wala ya/murakum an tattakhithooalmala-ikata waalnnabiyyeena arbabanaya/murukum bialkufri baAAda ith antum muslimoona
Nor does He order you that you take the controllers and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to rejection after you have submitted?

3:81 واذ اخذ الله ميثاق النبين لما ءاتيتكم من كتاب وحكمة ثم جاءكم رسول مصدق لما معكم لتؤمنن به ولتنصرنه قال ءاقررتم واخذتم علىا ذالكم اصرى قالوا اقررنا قال فاشهدوا وانا معكم من الشاهدين
Wa-ith akhatha Allahumeethaqa alnnabiyyeena lama ataytukummin kitabin wahikmatin thumma jaakumrasoolun musaddiqun lima maAAakum latu/minunna bihiwalatansurunnahu qala aaqrartum waakhathtumAAala thalikum isree qaloo aqrarnaqala faishhadoo waana maAAakum mina alshshahideena
And God took a covenant from the prophets: "For what I have given you of the Book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said: "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" They said: "We testify." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."

3:82 فمن تولىا بعد ذالك فاولائك هم الفاسقون
Faman tawalla baAAda thalikafaola-ika humu alfasiqoona
Whoever turns away after that, then they are the wicked.

3:83 افغير دين الله يبغون وله اسلم من فى السماوات والارض طوعا وكرها واليه يرجعون
Afaghayra deeni Allahi yabghoonawalahu aslama man fee alssamawati waal-arditawAAan wakarhan wa-ilayhi yurjaAAoona
Is it other than the system of God that they desire, when those in the heavens and the earth have submitted to Him voluntarily or by force? And to Him they will be returned.

3:84 قل ءامنا بالله وما انزل علينا وما انزل علىا ابراهيم واسماعيل واسحاق ويعقوب والاسباط وما اوتى موسىا وعيسىا والنبيون من ربهم لا نفرق بين احد منهم ونحن له مسلمون
Qul amanna biAllahiwama onzila AAalayna wama onzila AAalaibraheema wa-ismaAAeela wa-ishaqawayaAAqooba waal-asbati wama ootiya moosawaAAeesa waalnnabiyyoona min rabbihim lanufarriqu bayna ahadin minhum wanahnu lahumuslimoona
Say: "We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit."

3:85 ومن يبتغ غير الاسلام دينا فلن يقبل منه وهو فى الءاخرة من الخاسرين
Waman yabtaghi ghayra al-islamideenan falan yuqbala minhu wahuwa fee al-akhirati minaalkhasireena
And whoever follows other than peacemaking as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.

3:86 كيف يهدى الله قوما كفروا بعد ايمانهم وشهدوا ان الرسول حق وجاءهم البينات والله لا يهدى القوم الظالمين
Kayfa yahdee Allahu qawman kafaroobaAAda eemanihim washahidoo anna alrrasoola haqqunwajaahumu albayyinatu waAllahu layahdee alqawma alththalimeena
How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they had witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.

3:87 اولائك جزاؤهم ان عليهم لعنة الله والملائكة والناس اجمعين
Ola-ika jazaohum annaAAalayhim laAAnata Allahi waalmala-ikati waalnnasiajmaAAeena
To these the punishment will be that the curse of God will be upon them and that of the angels and the people all together!

3:88 خالدين فيها لا يخفف عنهم العذاب ولا هم ينظرون
Khalideena feeha layukhaffafu AAanhumu alAAathabu wala hum yuntharoona
Abiding therein, the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.

3:89 الا الذين تابوا من بعد ذالك واصلحوا فان الله غفور رحيم
Illa allatheena taboomin baAAdi thalika waaslahoo fa-inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun
Except those who repent after this and make amends, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.

3:90 ان الذين كفروا بعد ايمانهم ثم ازدادوا كفرا لن تقبل توبتهم واولائك هم الضالون
Inna allatheena kafaroo baAAda eemanihimthumma izdadoo kufran lan tuqbala tawbatuhum waola-ikahumu alddalloona
Those who have rejected after their belief, then increased in rejection, their repentance will not be accepted, they are the strayers.


Now 5:72, the verses before and after:

5:51 ياايها الذين ءامنوا لا تتخذوا اليهود والنصارىا اولياء بعضهم اولياء بعض ومن يتولهم منكم فانه منهم ان الله لا يهدى القوم الظالمين
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo alyahooda waalnnasaraawliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdinwaman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha layahdee alqawma alththalimeena
O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from among you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.

5:52 فترى الذين فى قلوبهم مرض يسارعون فيهم يقولون نخشىا ان تصيبنا دائرة فعسى الله ان ياتى بالفتح او امر من عنده فيصبحوا علىا ما اسروا فى انفسهم نادمين
Fatara allatheena feequloobihim maradun yusariAAoona feehim yaqooloonanakhsha an tuseebana da-iratun faAAasaAllahu an ya/tiya bialfathi aw amrin minAAindihi fayusbihoo AAala ma asarroofee anfusihim nadimeena
You will see those who have a disease in their hearts hurrying to them, saying: "We are concerned that a disaster will befall us!" Perhaps God will bring a victory or a decree from Himself, then they will become regretful over what they had kept hidden within themselves.

5:53 ويقول الذين ءامنوا اهاؤلاء الذين اقسموا بالله جهد ايمانهم انهم لمعكم حبطت اعمالهم فاصبحوا خاسرين
Wayaqoolu allatheena amanoo ahaola-iallatheena aqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihiminnahum lamaAAakum habitat aAAmaluhum faasbahookhasireena
And those who believe said: "Were these the ones who swore oaths by God that they are with you?" Their works have collapsed, and they have become losers.

5:54 ياايها الذين ءامنوا من يرتد منكم عن دينه فسوف ياتى الله بقوم يحبهم ويحبونه اذلة على المؤمنين اعزة على الكافرين يجاهدون فى سبيل الله ولا يخافون لومة لائم ذالك فضل الله يؤتيه من يشاء والله واسع عليم
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooman yartadda minkum AAan deenihi fasawfa ya/tee Allahubiqawmin yuhibbuhum wayuhibboonahu athillatinAAala almu/mineena aAAizzatin AAala alkafireenayujahidoona fee sabeeli Allahi wala yakhafoonalawmata la-imin thalika fadlu Allahiyu/teehi man yashao waAllahu wasiAAunAAaleemun
O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards the believers, proud towards the rejecters; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

5:55 انما وليكم الله ورسوله والذين ءامنوا الذين يقيمون الصلواة ويؤتون الزكواة وهم راكعون
Innama waliyyukumu Allahuwarasooluhu waallatheena amanoo allatheenayuqeemoona alssalata wayu/toona alzzakatawahum rakiAAoona
For your supporter are God and His messenger and those who believe; they hold the following closely and contribute towards purification, and they yield.

5:56 ومن يتول الله ورسوله والذين ءامنوا فان حزب الله هم الغالبون
Waman yatawalla Allaha warasoolahu waallatheenaamanoo fa-inna hizba Allahi humu alghaliboona
And whoever allies God and His messenger and those who believe; then the party of God are the ones who will be victorious.

5:57 ياايها الذين ءامنوا لا تتخذوا الذين اتخذوا دينكم هزوا ولعبا من الذين اوتوا الكتاب من قبلكم والكفار اولياء واتقوا الله ان كنتم مؤمنين
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo allatheena ittakhathoodeenakum huzuwan walaAAiban mina allatheena ootoo alkitabamin qablikum waalkuffara awliyaa waittaqooAllaha in kuntum mu/mineena
O you who believe, do not take as allies those who have taken your system for mockery and play from among those who have been given the Book before you and the rejecters. And be aware of God if you are believers.
Also check 60:7, 3:113, 3:199, 5:5 and 5:69

5:58 واذا ناديتم الى الصلواة اتخذوها هزوا ولعبا ذالك بانهم قوم لا يعقلون
Wa-itha nadaytum ila alssalatiittakhathooha huzuwan walaAAiban thalikabi-annahum qawmun la yaAAqiloona
And if you call to the following closely, they take it for mockery and play. That is because they are a people who do not comprehend.

5:59 قل يااهل الكتاب هل تنقمون منا الا ان ءامنا بالله وما انزل الينا وما انزل من قبل وان اكثركم فاسقون
Qul ya ahla alkitabi haltanqimoona minna illa an amanna biAllahiwama onzila ilayna wama onzila min qabluwaanna aktharakum fasiqoona
Say: "O people of the Book, do you hate us simply because we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down before?" Alas, the majority of them are wicked.

5:60 قل هل انبئكم بشر من ذالك مثوبة عند الله من لعنه الله وغضب عليه وجعل منهم القردة والخنازير وعبد الطاغوت اولائك شر مكانا واضل عن سواء السبيل
Qul hal onabbi-okum bisharrin min thalikamathoobatan AAinda Allahi man laAAanahu Allahuwaghadiba AAalayhi wajaAAala minhumu alqiradata waalkhanazeerawaAAabada alttaghooti ola-ika sharrun makananwaadallu AAan sawa-i alssabeeli
Say: "Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worse place and are more astray from the right path."

5:61 واذا جاءوكم قالوا ءامنا وقد دخلوا بالكفر وهم قد خرجوا به والله اعلم بما كانوا يكتمون
Wa-itha jaookum qaloo amannawaqad dakhaloo bialkufri wahum qad kharajoo bihi waAllahuaAAlamu bima kanoo yaktumoona
And if they come to you they say: "We believe," while they had entered in with rejection and went out with the same. God is aware of what they were hiding.

5:62 وترىا كثيرا منهم يسارعون فى الاثم والعدوان واكلهم السحت لبئس ما كانوا يعملون
Watara katheeran minhum yusariAAoonafee al-ithmi waalAAudwani waaklihimu alssuhtalabi/sa ma kanoo yaAAmaloona
And you see many of them hasten to sin and transgression and consuming money illicitly. Miserable indeed is what they were doing.

5:63 لولا ينهىاهم الربانيون والاحبار عن قولهم الاثم واكلهم السحت لبئس ما كانوا يصنعون
Lawla yanhahumu alrrabbaniyyoonawaal-ahbaru AAan qawlihimu al-ithmawaaklihimu alssuhta labi/sa ma kanooyasnaAAoona
If only the Devotees and Priests had prohibited them for speaking evil and consuming money illicitly. Miserable indeed is what they have done.

5:64 وقالت اليهود يد الله مغلولة غلت ايديهم ولعنوا بما قالوا بل يداه مبسوطتان ينفق كيف يشاء وليزيدن كثيرا منهم ما انزل اليك من ربك طغيانا وكفرا والقينا بينهم العداوة والبغضاء الىا يوم القيامة كلما اوقدوا نارا للحرب اطفاها الله ويسعون فى الارض فسادا والله لا يحب المفسدين
Waqalati alyahoodu yadu Allahimaghloolatun ghullat aydeehim waluAAinoo bima qaloobal yadahu mabsootatani yunfiqu kayfa yashaowalayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka minrabbika tughyanan wakufran waalqaynabaynahumu alAAadawata waalbaghdaa ilayawmi alqiyamati kullama awqadoo naran lilharbiatfaaha Allahu wayasAAawna fee al-ardifasadan waAllahu la yuhibbualmufsideena
And the Jews said: "The hand of God is tied-down!" Their hands will be tied-down, and they will be cursed for what they have said. No, His hands are wide open spending as He wills. And for many of them, what has been sent down to you will increase them in rebellion and rejection; and We have cast between them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they ignite the fire of war, God puts it out; and they seek to make corruption in the land; and God does not love the corrupters.

5:65 ولو ان اهل الكتاب ءامنوا واتقوا لكفرنا عنهم سياتهم ولادخلناهم جنات النعيم
Walaw anna ahla alkitabi amanoowaittaqaw lakaffarna AAanhum sayyi-atihimwalaadkhalnahum jannati alnnaAAeemi
And if the people of the Book only had believed and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of bliss.

5:66 ولو انهم اقاموا التورىاة والانجيل وما انزل اليهم من ربهم لاكلوا من فوقهم ومن تحت ارجلهم منهم امة مقتصدة وكثير منهم ساء ما يعملون
Walaw annahum aqamoo alttawratawaal-injeela wama onzila ilayhim min rabbihimlaakaloo min fawqihim wamin tahti arjulihim minhum ommatunmuqtasidatun wakatheerun minhum saa mayaAAmaloona
And if they had upheld the Taurat and the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.

5:67 ياايها الرسول بلغ ما انزل اليك من ربك وان لم تفعل فما بلغت رسالته والله يعصمك من الناس ان الله لا يهدى القوم الكافرين
Ya ayyuha alrrasooluballigh ma onzila ilayka min rabbika wa-in lam tafAAal famaballaghta risalatahu waAllahu yaAAsimukamina alnnasi inna Allaha la yahdeealqawma alkafireena
O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. And God does not guide the rejecting people.

5:68 قل يااهل الكتاب لستم علىا شىء حتىا تقيموا التورىاة والانجيل وما انزل اليكم من ربكم وليزيدن كثيرا منهم ما انزل اليك من ربك طغيانا وكفرا فلا تاس على القوم الكافرين
Qul ya ahla alkitabi lastumAAala shay-in hatta tuqeemoo alttawratawaal-injeela wama onzila ilaykum min rabbikumwalayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka minrabbika tughyanan wakufran fala ta/sa AAalaalqawmi alkafireena
Say: "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.

5:69 ان الذين ءامنوا والذين هادوا والصابون والنصارىا من ءامن بالله واليوم الءاخر وعمل صالحا فلا خوف عليهم ولا هم يحزنون
Inna allatheena amanoo waallatheenahadoo waalssabi-oona waalnnasaraman amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiriwaAAamila salihan fala khawfun AAalayhim walahum yahzanoona
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

5:70 لقد اخذنا ميثاق بنى اسراءيل وارسلنا اليهم رسلا كلما جاءهم رسول بما لا تهوىا انفسهم فريقا كذبوا وفريقا يقتلون
Laqad akhathna meethaqabanee isra-eela waarsalna ilayhim rusulan kullamajaahum rasoolun bima la tahwaanfusuhum fareeqan kaththaboo wafareeqan yaqtuloona
We have taken the covenant of the Children of Israel and We sent to them Our messengers. Every time a messenger came to them with what their souls did not desire, a group of them they would reject, and a group of them they would kill.

5:71 وحسبوا الا تكون فتنة فعموا وصموا ثم تاب الله عليهم ثم عموا وصموا كثير منهم والله بصير بما يعملون
Wahasiboo alla takoonafitnatun faAAamoo wasammoo thumma taba AllahuAAalayhim thumma AAamoo wasammoo katheerun minhum waAllahubaseerun bima yaAAmaloona
And they did not consider it might be a test, so they were blind and deaf. But God would have accepted the repentance from them; but many of them were still blind and deaf. God is Seer over what they do.

5:72 لقد كفر الذين قالوا ان الله هو المسيح ابن مريم وقال المسيح يابنى اسراءيل اعبدوا الله ربى وربكم انه من يشرك بالله فقد حرم الله عليه الجنة وماوىاه النار وما للظالمين من انصار
Laqad kafara allatheena qalooinna Allaha huwa almaseehu ibnu maryama waqalaalmaseehu ya banee isra-eela oAAbudoo Allaharabbee warabbakum innahu man yushrik biAllahi faqadharrama Allahu AAalayhi aljannata wama/wahualnnaru wama lilththalimeenamin ansarin
Rejecters indeed are those who have said: "God is the Messiah, son of Mary." And the Messiah said: "O Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever sets up partners with God, then God will restrict the Paradise from him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters."

5:73 لقد كفر الذين قالوا ان الله ثالث ثلاثة وما من الاه الا الاه واحد وان لم ينتهوا عما يقولون ليمسن الذين كفروا منهم عذاب اليم
Laqad kafara allatheena qalooinna Allaha thalithu thalathatin wamamin ilahin illa ilahun wahidun wa-inlam yantahoo AAamma yaqooloona layamassanna allatheenakafaroo minhum AAathabun aleemun
Rejecters indeed are those who have said: "God is a trinity!" There is no god except One god. If they do not cease from what they are saying, then those who reject from among them will be afflicted with a painful retribution.

5:74 افلا يتوبون الى الله ويستغفرونه والله غفور رحيم
Afala yatooboona ila Allahiwayastaghfiroonahu waAllahu ghafoorun raheemun
Would they not repent to God and seek His forgiveness? God is Forgiving, Merciful.

5:75 ما المسيح ابن مريم الا رسول قد خلت من قبله الرسل وامه صديقة كانا ياكلان الطعام انظر كيف نبين لهم الءايات ثم انظر انىا يؤفكون
Ma almaseehu ibnu maryama illarasoolun qad khalat min qablihi alrrusulu waommuhu siddeeqatunkana ya/kulani alttaAAamaonthur kayfa nubayyinu lahumu al-ayatithumma onthur anna yu/fakoona
The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger; like whom messengers have passed away; and his mother was trustworthy, they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them, then see how they deviate.

5:76 قل اتعبدون من دون الله ما لا يملك لكم ضرا ولا نفعا والله هو السميع العليم
Qul ataAAbudoona min dooni Allahi mala yamliku lakum darran wala nafAAan waAllahuhuwa alssameeAAu alAAaleemu
Say: "Do you serve other than God what cannot harm you or benefit you?" God is the Hearer, the Knower.

5:77 قل يااهل الكتاب لا تغلوا فى دينكم غير الحق ولا تتبعوا اهواء قوم قد ضلوا من قبل واضلوا كثيرا وضلوا عن سواء السبيل
Qul ya ahla alkitabi lataghloo fee deenikum ghayra alhaqqi wala tattabiAAooahwaa qawmin qad dalloo min qablu waadallookatheeran wadalloo AAan sawa-i alssabeeli
Say: "O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system other than the truth, and do not follow the desires of a people who have been misguided before, and they misguide many; and they strayed from the right path."

5:78 لعن الذين كفروا من بنى اسراءيل علىا لسان داود وعيسى ابن مريم ذالك بما عصوا وكانوا يعتدون
LuAAina allatheena kafaroo min baneeisra-eela AAala lisani dawoodawaAAeesa ibni maryama thalika bima AAasawwakanoo yaAAtadoona
Cursed are those who have rejected from among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and Jesus, son of Mary. That is for what they have disobeyed, and for what they transgressed.

5:79 كانوا لا يتناهون عن منكر فعلوه لبئس ما كانوا يفعلون
Kanoo la yatanahawnaAAan munkarin faAAaloohu labi/sa ma kanooyafAAaloona
They would not stop each other from doing vice. Wickedness is what they used to do.

5:80 ترىا كثيرا منهم يتولون الذين كفروا لبئس ما قدمت لهم انفسهم ان سخط الله عليهم وفى العذاب هم خالدون
Tara katheeran minhum yatawallawnaallatheena kafaroo labi/sa ma qaddamat lahumanfusuhum an sakhita Allahu AAalayhim wafee alAAathabihum khalidoona
You see many of them allying the rejecters. Wicked is what their souls have provided for them, for the wrath of God is upon them, and in the retribution they will abide.

5:81 ولو كانوا يؤمنون بالله والنبى وما انزل اليه ما اتخذوهم اولياء ولاكن كثيرا منهم فاسقون
Walaw kanoo yu/minoona biAllahiwaalnnabiyyi wama onzila ilayhi ma ittakhathoohumawliyaa walakinna katheeran minhum fasiqoona
And if they had believed in God and the prophet, and what was sent down to him, then they would not have taken them as allies; but many of them are wicked.

5:82 لتجدن اشد الناس عداوة للذين ءامنوا اليهود والذين اشركوا ولتجدن اقربهم مودة للذين ءامنوا الذين قالوا انا نصارىا ذالك بان منهم قسيسين ورهبانا وانهم لا يستكبرون
Latajidanna ashadda alnnasiAAadawatan lillatheena amanoo alyahooda waallatheenaashrakoo walatajidanna aqrabahum mawaddatan lillatheena amanooallatheena qaloo inna nasara thalikabi-anna minhum qisseeseena waruhbanan waannahum layastakbiroona
You will find the people with the greatest animosity towards those who believe are the Jews and those who are polytheists; and you will find the closest in affection to those who believe are those whosaid: "We are Nazarenes;" that is because among them are Priests and Monks, and they are not arrogant.
Again check 60:7, 3:113, 3:199, 5:5 and 5:69

5:83 واذا سمعوا ما انزل الى الرسول ترىا اعينهم تفيض من الدمع مما عرفوا من الحق يقولون ربنا ءامنا فاكتبنا مع الشاهدين
Wa-itha samiAAoo ma onzila ilaalrrasooli tara aAAyunahum tafeedu mina alddamAAimimma AAarafoo mina alhaqqi yaqooloona rabbanaamanna faoktubna maAAa alshshahideena
And if they hear what was sent down to the messenger you see their eyes flooding with tears, for what they have known as the truth, they say: "Our Lord, we believe, so record us with the witnesses."

5:84 وما لنا لا نؤمن بالله وما جاءنا من الحق ونطمع ان يدخلنا ربنا مع القوم الصالحين
Wama lana la nu/minu biAllahiwama jaana mina alhaqqi wanatmaAAuan yudkhilana rabbuna maAAa alqawmi alssaliheena
"And why should we not believe in God and what has come to us of the truth? And we yearn that our Lord admits us with the righteous people."

5:85 فاثابهم الله بما قالوا جنات تجرى من تحتها الانهار خالدين فيها وذالك جزاء المحسنين
Faathabahumu Allahu bimaqaloo jannatin tajree min tahtihaal-anharu khalideena feeha wathalikajazao almuhsineena
So God recompensed them for what they have said with estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein; such is the recompense of the good doers.

5:86 والذين كفروا وكذبوا باياتنا اولائك اصحاب الجحيم
Waallatheena kafaroo wakaththaboobi-ayatina ola-ika as-habualjaheemi
And those who rejected and denied Our revelations; they are the dwellers of Hell.

5:87 ياايها الذين ءامنوا لا تحرموا طيبات ما احل الله لكم ولا تعتدوا ان الله لا يحب المعتدين
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tuharrimoo tayyibati ma ahallaAllahu lakum wala taAAtadoo inna Allaha layuhibbu almuAAtadeena
O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.

Hopefully this will clear thing. Salam/Peace.

The Sardar

Salam/Peace, my comments are in bold red

Quote from: burhan on June 13, 2018, 04:36:37 PM

Don't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language. Is God so tiny and vain that he needs to insult his own creation.

Hateful language? If you could, please do show us so we can analyze. Also people are trying to make God look tiny & vain by making lies against him.

Swap the word disbeliever in Quran with quranist and see how you feel.

That is honestly weird, what does this have to do with this topic?

Remember Rashad Khalifia, he demanded that people believe in him and Code 19. Those of us who didn't believe what were they called?

About Rashad Khalifa, he has done some things are questionable like the event when he been inappropriate towards a young woman in 1979, google Rashad Khalifa rape case and also see this videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwEPoKxUZwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4R5K0JdmE

Ingrates, blind, ungrateful etc ... for what crime? All the hate that his followers like Edip used to spout was directly from the Quran.

I recommend check from 9:1 to 9:35 and from 2:185 to 2:200, and what hate did Edip Yuksel and his followers spout out?

What about you? Do you think Sunni or Shia will go to heaven?

Honestly i do think so, if they are following God's divine laws then they are good people, i have meet some Sunni and Shia humans and they are good people.


Cerberus

people should ponder more on Allah. and then try to answer is a certain book from Allah.

Again, what/who is Allah ? and how do you define what is from Allah and what is not ? This is the most fundamental and important question.

Also, @Sardar, can you please stop flooding the thread with copy pastas ???

huruf

Everything is from Allah. But we should look at what God intends for every particular being. We are humans and we in our fitra know to some extent what destiny God meant for us. Revelation and exchange with others helps us finding out more about out destiny. Our destiny is not to judge God or anybody else for that matter, but to try to understand and know, starting with ourselves. We have that God given gift or being able to analyse and examine ourselves. From the moral point of view that should be our main task.

The Qur'an is not a book whereby we should learn to judge God or even others, but to judge ourselves and improve ourselves. Each one her or himself. It is also the most noble and enthralling task.

Salaam


good logic

I think people should ponder about the existence of themselves. Who are they? Did their father and mother created them? Who made it possible for them to come out alive from their mothers?
Either  the parent/s is responsible of their existence or a Creator  beyond the work of a mere human has made it possible for them to exist in a human body here on earth?
Surely the complexity of the body of a human and its function/organs... can only be the work of a non human "Creator"!

Then why have they been created and what is the aim ,should be the main question?

Therefore  I do not think a Creator will burden His creation more than they can bare, nor will a Creator be unjust or cruel to what He/It created! Also a Creator has the final say and the control.
For me, I trust this Creator  fully and have confidence in all He/It does. I will only blame myself if I do not make the effort to find out Who this creator is and what is our purpose from His/Its point of view. I am also confident there is a manual/message from this Creator giving us our instructions and purpose.
Over to each one of us to carry out the task.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

The Sardar

Quote from: Cerberus on June 14, 2018, 05:54:24 AM
Also, @Sardar, can you please stop flooding the thread with copy pastas ???
Oh come now dear sibling Cerberus, i was trying to show context of the verses Burhan used.  :group:

Cerberus

Quote from: huruf on June 14, 2018, 07:30:15 AM
Everything is from Allah. But we should look at what God intends for every particular being. We are humans and we in our fitra know to some extent what destiny God meant for us. Revelation and exchange with others helps us finding out more about out destiny. Our destiny is not to judge God or anybody else for that matter, but to try to understand and know, starting with ourselves. We have that God given gift or being able to analyse and examine ourselves. From the moral point of view that should be our main task.
Salaam

Everything is from Allah but the evil of man, because even the good Allah takes credit from (4:79). And that is a very insightful piece of information from the Quran. That the good within man emanates from Allah, and the bad emanates directly from man. That man away from Allah results in bad, suffering and destruction. And that man with Allah brings fruits, benefits and joy. A heaven for man.

So knowing who/what Allah is, is very crucial. It is knowing good from bad in ourselves. And then we can rightfully judge ourselves.

But how come people view Allah as some sort of deity ? Allah is much more intrinsic to us. But people just skip this and rather focus on physical stuff like a book, rituals, calendars, ceremonies, clothes, things to be said and done...

What does the Quran call for ? It calls for virtue; but where is this virtue, is it in Quran or is it in ourselves ? Then why people focus on Quran and not on themselves ?

And then with what part do we understand virtue and agree with it ? Then that part of man is key to man's success. And therefore man should keep his attention on that part, and preserve it and remain with it, following it. It is that part that emanates from Allah. It is that part that needs to be kept holy, not the quran. Quran is a book that points to that part of man. Yet man points back at the quran to run away from the responsibility.


@Sardar, no offense intended, but the amount of verses was just counter-intuitive.

Jafar

Quote from: burhan on June 13, 2018, 04:36:37 PM
A prophet demands that people believe in him. Those who don't believe in him are called disbelievers. Now you have two groups.

Which prophet?
And how do you know he acted as such?
Did you witnessed it directly? Or indirectly through what other people say or write?

By observing the pattern found in the books of Gospel..
It seems that the prophet (in this case a dude named Jesus and his cousin John) never labeled those who disbelieve in him as unbeliever / enemy of God / servant of Satan / condemned to Hell. They did however curse the hypocrites among the religious. Which is a consistent pattern, shown in Abraham life legend/story as well.

UNTIL..
Later book, such as The Gospel according to John. Written approximately 70 years after the events supposed to occur. In this book the prophet seems to turn into a narcissistic megalomaniac. Demanding to be obeyed, respected, believed and even worshiped.

Conclusion: Once a 'sect' / 'religion' has formed around a figure. The member of the sect invented stuff to propelled the figure with stories which might never happened at all.

Quote
Non-believers are evil, sick, enemies of God etc, simply for not believing the prophet.  Even if they do good things they will still go to hell. 5:72, 3:85 etc.

Definitely... God has enemy is a totally ridiculous idea..  :rotfl: :rotfl:
All shows exact match to the characteristic of sectarian writings....

QuoteThis type of language is hateful and dangerous, sadly it has made come back in politics and you can see the affects.

All sect / religion has political objective in mind.. thus the similarity..

QuoteDon't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language.
Because it was written with political objective in mind?
To unify the people within the sect and then to justify the act of aggression against those who are not within the sect?

QuoteRemember Rashad Khalifia, he demanded that people believe in him and Code 19. Those of us who didn't believe what were they called?
Ingrates, blind, ungrateful etc ... for what crime? All the hate that his followers like Edip used to spout was directly from the Quran.

Did Rashad said that?
Or it was more of Rashad sect member claimed that Rashad said that?
If Rashad did said that, then I think he was a narcissistic megalomaniac...

QuoteWhat about you? Do you think Sunni or Shia will go to heaven?
Definitely, God's blessing and forgivness goes across all social identity.. Sunni Shiites Jews Christian Catholics Hindus Taoist Buddhist Atheist Capitalist Communist etc.....