Author Topic: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion  (Read 249 times)

Jafar

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A very good documentary on how all of (the madness) get started.

The History of Iraq - The Kings from Babylon to Baghdad
https://youtu.be/h4zyQn5t7eY

From the first King, first organized military, first Empire, first organized military invasion (and plunder), first Writing systems, first Organized Religion

and First / Oldest Scripture (claimed to be) written by God (named Marduk) on 1,750 BC.

The Code of Hammurabi (Full Text)
https://youtu.be/mChFuXpi3sA


Hammurabi (left) receiving divine law from supreme God Marduk (seated right)

"The CODE OF HAMMURABI, by its own account, does not originate from the mind of King Hammurabi himself, who considered himself merely a catalyst for the reign and power of something ‘greater’ than himself: that of the patron deity, MARDUK"

Still intact and definitely unchanged for thousand of years, you can see it (or read it if you understand Babylonians) by yourselves on Louvre museum, Paris.

The 'reference' story / dogma which the Israelites later on copied with their own story of Moses receiving laws from YHVH written on stone tablets. Yet the Moses / YHVH stone tablets is 'missing' now..  :rotfl:

If "unchanged law written by God" is your main criteria of 'truest God's Law' then you should definitely follow the above God's law. The law set by Hammurabi and written by God Marduk.


Cerberus

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Re: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 09:44:51 PM »
Didn't watch, but I think at each point in time and in each place there are people who deserve their insight, and they share it with others. It may not be perfect and may also be tainted with a little bit of their cultural standards, but the message in its essence is the same.

The process that the people of the world undergo appears to be solely dedicated to taking them from Darkness to Light, one step at a time. 
And the stage that we've almost (or already ?) reached is the one of pure logic, and therefore, no one shall have any excuses for their actions and perhaps it might be the final stage.

Jafar

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Re: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 12:36:28 PM »
And the stage that we've almost (or already ?) reached is the one of pure logic, and therefore, no one shall have any excuses for their actions and perhaps it might be the final stage.

The latest findings based on experiment performed few years ago concluded that:
Human doesn't make decision based on fact and / or logic but based on their emotional feelings.

Thus humans are not there yet and I doubted that they ever will.

The documentary explained partly the WHY question.
WHY human claimed a scripture, writings or tablet was originated from Heaven / Deity / God.
With a factual example of the FIRST scripture / writings claimed to be written / originated from God.
In this case a deity / god named Marduk.

Thus also explained WHY "God only published books" around middle east region, and nowhere else.

Once you understood that, you can see; by yourselves; that religious human living today is not much difference than religious human living in Mesopotamia 4000 years ago.
(Which punished a blasphemer named Abraham with death by burning)

AND.. if you were living as a Mesopotamian, 4000 years ago, there's 99% probability that you will agree with your society and believe whatever things that your society is believing in. Including supporting or perhaps enforcing the punishment towards a blasphemer of Marduk named Abraham.

Makaveli

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Re: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 01:26:51 PM »
Why oldest proto-religion appeared in the Middle East because there were first recorded empire and first imperial cities established in the territory of Iraq and Iran, the latter succeeded the tradition. It seems likely that modern day Judaism and Islam as well as the "grid" overall was perhaps established during those times and nothing did really change since then, except new empires appeared, were destroyed later and new established et cetera.

Oldest writings ever found, attributed to ancient Messopotamina, namely Epic of Gilgamesh shares some of the key storylines as the Genesis, namely the Great Flood, judging from available preserved tablets.

Why monotheism with its successive feudalism (i.e. where power was attributed to the authority, which was believed to be selected by the 'heavenly court') was invented, it is because for bloodthirsty rulers it was a great opportunity to conquest and control nations outside of their innate borders. For other nations to be controlled by the foreign emperor would be typically unacceptable and which would in turn cause frequent unrests and coups. What the clergy instead did is spread the idea of "oneness" under the 'pantheon of gods', where the heighest deity would usually reside. Rome was as monotheistic as the 11th century caliphate. Once other nations started accepting this doctrine it would be easier for warlords to control them and thus expanding their authority wider, by putting loyal vassals under his regime on occupied territories. The same principle works today, albeit religious monotheism is no longer dominant in power issues, but is mainly used to control population. But the world's financial system is a modern tool for conquest purposes. The nations are occupied by banks, international military and debentures, creating a sort of imperial system, and most international conflicts today look more like civil wars.

(In)dividuals who oppose the grid would be typically persecuted, such as raised on the cross or burned for heresy. Modern means of smart persecution are not limited to extermination. Useful technologies of mind control include public ridicule of a person, making him/her basically uninterestig to the overall zombified society. Another method which was widely practiced in the 20th century was political abuse of psychiatry, which was especially popular in the Soviet Union, but was also spread as a punitive measure in pre-Soviet times and other republics before WWI.

It is noteworthy to see how some so called "enlightened" people fall for monotheistic dogma even today, by basically putting their lives at stake and adhering to one single book, either by excluding common sense completely or limiting it to the point where it would support their ongoing dogma, and encouraging others to do respectively. Why? Probably because by their nature these dogmatitists are the same potential clergy of the past and if given chance, they woudl spread quite a bloodshed, starting with their own youtube viewers. Paradoxically, such people would often criticize modern political establishment, or social processes within it, such as feminism or what they like to call Cultural Marxism/Frankfurt school of thought, and urge others to unite under one-book community. Probably a similar community thousands years ago became Babylon...

Few things not factually correct in the o.p. is the fact that there was no such terms as 'Israelites' when they acquired those texts, succeeded from Sumerian civilization. Even the term banu Yesraelyi does not mean children of Israel, but means children of/belonging to (as a tribe or a group, does not imply biological bond) Acknowledging 'Il (typically translated as God): יִשְׂרָאֵל‬; إِسْرَائِيلَ

Nor YHWH is a name for deity, these letters basically mean "Hail the Eternal One's", according to one definition, whereas Elohym means Unity or Creator.

What they did back then is named themselves after definitions found in those texts, similar as muhhamedan social engineers named members of their new religion after word derived from root Siin-Lam-Meem found in the Quran (but is not limited to the Quran either), calling themselves muslims, while not executing much of what the word implies.
To contact me use kasnew1 [at] gee-mail (dot) com.

good logic

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Re: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 05:22:07 AM »
Peace jafar.
It is of no relevance  what people did in the past , are doing now or will do in future . In our age, we find yourself able to check and evaluate information .  Therefore ,each one of us alone is responsible for what we believe/follow...

Whatever people said about books we have in front of us, we should judge these books  by their contents.

Surely we should study these so called books from GOD and decide for ourselves, according to our capacity /knowledge if they really are from GOD.

I do not see any problem ,since everyone is entitled to their free choice, people can believe/follow what they want.
Those who want to know (really know sincerely) will owe it to themselves to use their GOD given faculties and reasoning and try to be honest with themselves  and make an effort to investigate /study/check with zero bias. Our instinct is strong ,it tells us when we are not being fair with others, and ourselves..
Those who ignore their instinct or have warped motives will only harm themselves in the end.
The challenge to really find out who we are and why we exist has always been a difficult task.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Jafar

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Re: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 11:09:05 PM »
Peace jafar.
It is of no relevance  what people did in the past , are doing now or will do in future .

There's a saying, I think it was Churchill, who said
"The more you dig in the past the more you can predict the future".

Which is true in today world of computer predictive analytics, implemented on Google Search, Google Map, Google Ads and myriad of others. The more historical data being feed into an algorithm, the more accurate the algorithm then become.

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In our age, we find yourself able to check and evaluate information .  Therefore ,each one of us alone is responsible for what we believe/follow...

To some extent true, but henceforth, the above descriptive is addressing more of WHY human, regardless of available of information, doesn't want to objectively do the check and evaluation themselves. They prefer to follow on what is available.

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Whatever people said about books we have in front of us, we should judge these books  by their contents.

Agree, and *Should* is the keyword.
But in reality people don't judge anything by it's content. They judge the book by it's cover and by what other people are saying about it.

That is why you found people commentary / quote about the book on the cover of any book today.

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Surely we should study these so called books from GOD and decide for ourselves, according to our capacity /knowledge if they really are from GOD.

The descriptive above is more on WHY people claimed that their written material was from God. In this case a Codex from Marduk delivered through His Majesty King Hammurabi.

Why even such mindset exist BUT only can be found on a specific culture on specific region.

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I do not see any problem ,since everyone is entitled to their free choice, people can believe/follow what they want.

But not for Hammurabi (or other who claimed that their material was from God) he will try to punish those who don't believe in accordance to Hammurabi's will.

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Those who want to know (really know sincerely) will owe it to themselves to use their GOD given faculties and reasoning and try to be honest with themselves  and make an effort to investigate /study/check with zero bias.

In reality, human will always be biased.
As you can see for yourselves when you try to examine yourselves.

Quote
Our instinct is strong ,it tells us when we are not being fair with others, and ourselves..
Those who ignore their instinct or have warped motives will only harm themselves in the end.
The challenge to really find out who we are and why we exist has always been a difficult task.
Agree

And 'imagining' how would we think and act if we were in different situational context (in this case: a common person living in Mesopotamia 4000 years ago) is a great way to 'train' our 'instinct'. Although I would prefer to call it as "our conscience".


Jafar

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Re: Mesopotamia: The Birthplace Of Military, Empire and Religion
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 03:16:22 PM »
Why oldest proto-religion appeared in the Middle East because there were first recorded empire and first imperial cities established in the territory of Iraq and Iran, the latter succeeded the tradition. It seems likely that modern day Judaism and Islam as well as the "grid" overall was perhaps established during those times and nothing did really change since then, except new empires appeared, were destroyed later and new established et cetera.

There's an established pattern between "Empire" and "Agricultural Revolution".
By Iraq and Iran I believe you mean the "fertile cresent".



An area fits for agriculture and where "wild wheat" can originally be found.

Other area around the globe includes:
- Mohenjodaro (Indus river valley)
- Yangtze river network
- Nile river network
- Mekong river valley

In all of those areas, ancient empire does developed after agricultural revolution.
The cause and effect of events might be the following:

Fertile Land -> Agriculture -> Abundant Food -> Incremental Rise In Population -> Law and Order Required -> Empire -> Somebody Claimed Divinity To Maintain Law and Order -> Divine Person Lead The Empire -> Military Organization to establish law and order -> Empire expand to surrounding area through invasion through the use of military organization.

Yet "Book / Tablet / Scriptures Claimed to Be Written By God" only appears on fertile crescent in the middle east. Thus one might ponder 'why'.

Possible Explanation:
Only in fertile crescent area, originated in Mesopotamia that writing systems is widely established and widely recognized by the common populace.

In other part of the world (China, Indus, Nile Egypt etc) we can only find people / emperor to be "Divine" (and not book or tablet). Emperor usually claimed their divinity through 'incarnation' of a God or as the sole representative of God on earth.

Thus what being said by the Emperor must not be argued or questioned. Because the words from the Emperor were actually words from God. A terrible torture, by the God, await those who dare to questioned or doubted the truthfulness of the words. Let alone an act of rebelling to the Emperor, it can be seen as starting a rebellion against the God.

Quote
Oldest writings ever found, attributed to ancient Messopotamina, namely Epic of Gilgamesh shares some of the key storylines as the Genesis, namely the Great Flood, judging from available preserved tablets.

Israelite civilization is indeed Mesopotamia 2.0
It borrows / inherit many things such as:
- God wrote a book / tablet
- Adam, Eve and Garden of Eden
- The flood

Quote
Why monotheism with its successive feudalism (i.e. where power was attributed to the authority, which was believed to be selected by the 'heavenly court') was invented, it is because for bloodthirsty rulers it was a great opportunity to conquest and control nations outside of their innate borders.

Correct as I've described above..

Quote
It is noteworthy to see how some so called "enlightened" people fall for monotheistic dogma even today, by basically putting their lives at stake and adhering to one single book, either by excluding common sense completely or limiting it to the point where it would support their ongoing dogma, and encouraging others to do respectively. Why? Probably because by their nature these dogmatitists are the same potential clergy of the past and if given chance, they woudl spread quite a bloodshed, starting with their own youtube viewers. Paradoxically, such people would often criticize modern political establishment, or social processes within it, such as feminism or what they like to call Cultural Marxism/Frankfurt school of thought, and urge others to unite under one-book community. Probably a similar community thousands years ago became Babylon...

The truly enlightened people never feel enlightened.
They will never stop questioning trying to find better answer..

As they say: Arrogance and Ignorance goes hand in hand.

A dogma is basically an instruction to stop questioning.
Thus once dogma finds it root in society, arrogance and ignorance will appear as a result.

Quote
Few things not factually correct in the o.p. is the fact that there was no such terms as 'Israelites' when they acquired those texts, succeeded from Sumerian civilization. Even the term banu Yesraelyi does not mean children of Israel, but means children of/belonging to (as a tribe or a group, does not imply biological bond) Acknowledging 'Il (typically translated as God): יִשְׂרָאֵל‬; إِسْرَائِيلَ

Of course given Israelites civilization is Mesopotamia 2.0
There were no Windows 10 when Windows 95 were around..
Yet within Windows 10 we can found familiar element being inherited from Windows 95.