Author Topic: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...  (Read 28980 times)

ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #170 on: April 22, 2020, 08:26:30 AM »
Salaam,



https://youtu.be/V1spL9AGt4A




والله اعلم
Allah knows best.


ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #172 on: May 03, 2020, 02:01:04 AM »
Salaam,




Number 13 and 31 in the Quran.

In chapter 55 Al-Rahman, which is composed of 78 verses,
there is a verse that is numerically distinguished between the verses of the Quran, it is the verse :

Which, then, of your Sustainer’s powers can you disavow?
فباي الا ربكما تكذبان

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/13/default.htm


- This verse is repeated in chapter Al-Rahman 31 times.
The first time this verse is mentioned is in verse number 13, reverse of 31.

-----

- Verse 31 in this chapter has 13 different letters.

55:31 [ONE DAY] We shall take you to task, O you sin-laden two!
سنفرغ لكم ايه الثقلان

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/31/default.htm






- The repeated verses ( 31 verses ) are surrounded by 13 verses.

12 verses before verse 13 ( first time where the repeated verse is mentioned ),

and 1 verse after verse 77 ( last time where the repeated verse is mentioned ).




- The sum of the 12 verse numbers before verse 13 is 78, same as the last verse number:

1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12 13  ... 77  78

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 = 78


-The total number of verses of chapter Al-Rahman = 78

78 = 13 x 6
-----

The total number of words in chapter Al-Rahman = 351

351 = 13 × 27
-----

The number of letters of the non repeated verses ( 47 verses ) = 1027

1027 = 13 × 79

-----



Seen the indication in chapter Al-Rahman about 13 and 31

- Chapter Al-Rahman is the 55 th chapter in the Quran.

- The 55 th chapter from the end of the Quran is chapter 60 and has 13 verses.

This is the only chapter which has 13 verses

- The only chapter which has 31 verses is chapter 76, this is the 39 th chapter from the end of the Quran.

39 =  13 x 3

-----


- The name Al-Rahman is mentioned in the Quran 169 times if the Basmalah's are included.

169 = 13 x 13

Note also reverse:

961 = 31 x 31


الرحمن / Al-Raḥmaan / The Most Gracious / The Origin





---------

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/1/default.htm
الرحمن / Al-Raḥmaan / The Most Gracious

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/2/
علم القران  ʿallama Al-Qur'aan
taught /made known / marked the Quran

The sum of the chapter numbers and the sum of the total  number of verses before
chapter Al-Rahman is 1485 + 4901 = 6386

The sum of the chapter numbers and the sum of the total number of verses after
chapter Al-Rahman is  5015 + 1257 = 6272

6386 - 6272 = 114  i.e the numer of chapters in the Quran.

AND

Chapter 55 Al-Rahman has 78 verses.
55 + 78 = 133 = 114 + 19

About 19 see chapter 74:30-31





------


Other observations about number 13 and 31

- The total number of verses of each of the 114 chapters of the Quran sorted from smallest to largest.


Note the reverse of the numbers:  26 and 62   --   13 and 31



-----



An other example of reverse concerning chapter 13 and  chapter 31

Chapter 13 has 43 verses.

Chapter 31 has 34 verses.


-----


Number 13  and number 31 are also related to number 19.

From number 13 to number 31 there are 19 numbers.





Note also:

-The first verse of the Quran has 19 letters:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

-The last verse of the Quran has 13 letters:

من الجنه والناس



-----

source: (arabic) Abdullah Jalghoum :
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir11772/#.WuSF5X8uCCg
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir15669/
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir16257/
https://www.academia.edu/37494956/Farid_Gabteni_-_The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_9th_edition_2018_   page 168-169

The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...RGYS1ORlk/view

والله اعلم
Allah knows best.





jkhan

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #173 on: May 03, 2020, 02:59:44 AM »
Salaam,




Number 13 and 31 in the Quran.

In chapter 55 Al-Rahman, which is composed of 78 verses,
there is a verse that is numerically distinguished between the verses of the Quran, it is the verse :

Which, then, of your Sustainer’s powers can you disavow?
فباي الا ربكما تكذبان

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/13/default.htm


- This verse is repeated in chapter Al-Rahman 31 times.
The first time this verse is mentioned is in verse number 13, reverse of 31.

-----

- Verse 31 in this chapter has 13 different letters.

55:31 [ONE DAY] We shall take you to task, O you sin-laden two!
سنفرغ لكم ايه الثقلان

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/31/default.htm






- The repeated verses ( 31 verses ) are surrounded by 13 verses.

12 verses before verse 13 ( first time where the repeated verse is mentioned ),

and 1 verse after verse 77 ( last time where the repeated verse is mentioned ).




- The sum of the 12 verse numbers before verse 13 is 78, same as the last verse number:

1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12 13  ... 77  78

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 = 78


-The total number of verses of chapter Al-Rahman = 78

78 = 13 x 6
-----

The total number of words in chapter Al-Rahman = 351

351 = 13 × 27
-----

The number of letters of the non repeated verses ( 47 verses ) = 1027

1027 = 13 × 79

-----



Seen the indication in chapter Al-Rahman about 13 and 31

- Chapter Al-Rahman is the 55 th chapter in the Quran.

- The 55 th chapter from the end of the Quran is chapter 60 and has 13 verses.

This is the only chapter which has 13 verses

- The only chapter which has 31 verses is chapter 76, this is the 39 th chapter from the end of the Quran.

39 =  13 x 3

-----


- The name Al-Rahman is mentioned in the Quran 169 times if the Basmalah's are included.

169 = 13 x 13

Note also reverse:

961 = 31 x 31


الرحمن / Al-Raḥmaan / The Most Gracious / The Origin





---------

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/1/default.htm
الرحمن / Al-Raḥmaan / The Most Gracious

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/55/2/
علم القران  ʿallama Al-Qur'aan
taught /made known / marked the Quran

The sum of the chapter numbers and the sum of the total  number of verses before
chapter Al-Rahman is 1485 + 4901 = 6386

The sum of the chapter numbers and the sum of the total number of verses after
chapter Al-Rahman is  5015 + 1257 = 6272

6386 - 6272 = 114  i.e the numer of chapters in the Quran.

AND

Chapter 55 Al-Rahman has 78 verses.
55 + 78 = 133 = 114 + 19

About 19 see chapter 74:30-31





------


Other observations about number 13 and 31

- The total number of verses of each of the 114 chapters of the Quran sorted from smallest to largest.


Note the reverse of the numbers:  26 and 62   --   13 and 31



-----



An other example of reverse concerning chapter 13 and  chapter 31

Chapter 13 has 43 verses.

Chapter 31 has 34 verses.


-----


Number 13  and number 31 are also related to number 19.

From number 13 to number 31 there are 19 numbers.





Note also:

-The first verse of the Quran has 19 letters:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

-The last verse of the Quran has 13 letters:

من الجنه والناس



-----

source: (arabic) Abdullah Jalghoum :
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir11772/#.WuSF5X8uCCg
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir15669/
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir16257/
https://www.academia.edu/37494956/Farid_Gabteni_-_The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_9th_edition_2018_   page 168-169

The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...RGYS1ORlk/view

والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Peace...

Excellent....  Speechless...

Look at the difference to this thread and your previous thread... This is totally within quran and that is outside Quran...

Now this is a coincidence for some and some will come up to negate it... But keep up the good work dear brother...

 :bravo:...
What else is there within this quran...
Now does such discovery increase faith of believers or make them come up with something fragile to nullify it... Let's wait and see..
Thank you for sharing... That's worth reading.. God bless you

jkhan

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #174 on: June 26, 2020, 08:42:47 PM »
 
Peace...

Check and verify below pls ...
We all know in 29 chapters Arabic initials are used.. That is to say mere Arabic Letters are used at the beginning...

Every chapter has beginning letter and ending letter... For example chapter 01 .. Beginning letter = B and Ending letter = N
Beginning letters used = 15
Ending letters used = 14

So that is 15 + 14 = 29

The values of beginning letters is = 8 6 1
And values of Ending letters is = 2 2 8 2

8 + 6 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 8 + 2 = 29

Further beginning 8 + 6 + 1 = 15 (15 letters used)

Ending 2 + 2 + 8 + 2 = 14 (14 letters used)

Note: in above calculation chapter 9 is considered 127 verses leaving controversial two end verses..


ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #175 on: December 25, 2020, 07:39:12 AM »

Salaam,


Salaam,



    In the Quran the word Saqarسقر is related to number 19.


    74:26 I will cast him in / I shall cause him to endure "Saqar".

    74:27 And what could make thee conceive what "Saqar"is?

    74:28 It does not spare nor leave.

    74:29 Manifest/making visible to human beings / mortal man.

    74:30 Over it (are)nineteen.



    -The word Saqarسقر is mentioned 4 times in 4 verses in two chapters, chapter 54 Al-Qamar and chapter 74 Al-Mudaththir.


   
    54:48 On the Day when they shall be dragged into the fire on their faces( wujoohihim ),
              [they will be told:] “Taste now the touch of "Saqar""!”


    74:26 I will cast him in / I shall cause him to endure "Saqar".

    74:27 And what could make thee conceive what "Saqar" is?

    74:42 What has brought you into "Saqar"?






    1 - Between these two chapters, there are 19 chapters.


    54    55    56    57    58    59    60    61    62    63    64    65    66    67    68    69    70    71    72    73    74



    2 - The total words of the 4 verses where the word Saqar سقر is mentioned is 19 words.


chapter          number                                              verse text                                 
verse             of words
                                                                   
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                                                                 
                              
54:48         ( 9 words )     يوم    يسحبون    في    النار    علي    وجوههم    ذوقوا    مس    سقر

74:26         ( 2 words )                                                                                                ساصليه    سقر

74:27         ( 4 words )                                                                               و ما    ادريك    ما    سقر
   
74:42         ( 4 words )                                                                                 ما    سلككم    في    سقر
   
                     
                           

    3 - The Arabic word Saqar سقر is composed of 3 letters: Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر .

    The sum of the occurrences of these 3 letters in the 4 verses is 19 times .


Seen = 8 times

Qaf  = 5 times

Ra  = 6 times
.



    4 - The total letters of these 4 verses consist of 19 different letters.



ي   و    ه    ن    م    ل    ك    ق    ف    ع    ص    س    ر    ذ    د    ح    ج    ب    ا



    Source:

    -The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)

    http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
    or
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...RGYS1ORlk/view

    -Quran : Uthmani Script.


    والله اعلم
    Allah knows best.





Quote


https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=952492131906329&set=gm.1017492882052170
Kai SP

Exactly in between Ch 54 & Ch 74 there are 19 Chapters.

And exactly in between this Ch 54 & Ch 74 also, total letters of سقر will equal to exactly 448 + 491 + 1018 = 1957.

And 1957 is kind of like there are 1+3 nineteen too ! 19 and (19+19+19).

Chapter 54 has 1 word سقر and Chapter 74 has 3 word سقر.

And 1957 is also like a combination of one 19 and three 19.




The number of  letters Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر    of the 19 chapters between chapter 54 Al-Qamar and chapter 74 Al-Mudaththir:




Note that SAQAR is mentioned immediately after this:

Quran 74:25 "Not is this but (the) word (of) a human being."

Source:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=952492131906329&set=gm.1017492882052170
Kai SP

The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...RGYS1ORlk/view

-Quran : Uthmani Script.




والله اعلم
Allah knows best.


Noon waalqalami

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #176 on: December 28, 2020, 04:03:50 PM »
The number of  letters Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر    of the 19 chapters between chapter 54 Al-Qamar and chapter 74 Al-Mudaththir:

Peace, need to use consistent method 74 - 54 = 20?

Regardless, within probability i.e. to get ~100 multiples simply do 1900 permutations.

Ltr gv include/exclude 112 bsm ch titles totals in Qur’an
س 60 6123 | 6011
ق 100 7034 | 7034
ر 200 12627 | 12403

E.g. total س seen in Qur’an = 6123 in 3535 verses (modern count), 6063 words; not included:
7:69 وزادكم and enhance you (pl.) في in الخلق the creation بصطه bastatan/extensively (with saad)

Likewise be cautious of current scripts thousand alifs were added ~200 years after revelation.

ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #177 on: January 03, 2021, 09:23:23 AM »
Salaam,


Peace, need to use consistent method 74 - 54 = 20?
Peace Noon waalqalami,

I dont think that your objection is relevant, as the point is about the word saqar سقر  mentioned in chapter 54 and chapter 74 and the number of letters Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر   .

- So either we count from chapter 54 to chapter 74

number of chapters = 21 chapters --> not multiple of 19

number of letters    Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر     
 502 + 564 +1192 = 2258   --> not multiple of 19


- or between chapter 54 and chapter 74

number of chapters = 19 chapters

number of letters  Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر 
  448 + 491 + 1018 = 1957

- When you say 74 - 54 = 20?  then you  exclude the  letters  Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر    from chapter 54 or chapter 74 (which doesn't seem logic)






Regardless, within probability i.e. to get ~100 multiples simply do 1900 permutations.

No permutation in my opinion, concerning the 4 verses containing the word saqar سقر 

19 words

19 letters  Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر    

19 different letters

19 chapters between chapter 54 and chapter 74

1957 letters  Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر     between chapter 54 and chapter 74

failures:
sum of verse numbers containing saqar
sum of  chapter 54 and chapter 74
total verses between chapter 54 and chapter 74
sum of total verses in chapter 54 and chapter 74
sum of the total letters of the verses containing the word saqar
etc...


One could argue about the failures, each will have his own demands of what should be multiple of 19 or how the patterns should look like,  I think that it serves other purposes  in the numerical structure of the Quran and could be about  priority of pattern.

About permutation,  partially agree that what some  present as numerical structure is due to a large amount of data and not related to a numerical structure.

Peace Noon waalqalami,

Of course obvious that when there is a large amount of data, some of it could be a multiple of whatever number, no issue about that,  but that does not exclude a structure / pattern, if this was the author' s intention.

It is also logical to differentiate between that what is due to coincidence ( 1/whatever number ) and that what is intended by the Author.

Not sure about a methode to find an intended pattern wthout failures.

Logique that failures are due to the fact that the patterns / structures are no known in advance.

I do not see the relevance about the failures, as they do not disprove a possible numerical structure

Failures do not change the facts, if there are.

-----

The issue / question  is about intended or not.
example:

- Are  the 114 capters of the Quran intended or it just happen to be 114 ?

- Was the basmalah chosen to have 19 letters or it just happen to be 19 ?

 - Why is there no Basmalah in chapter 9 and an extra Basmalah in chapter 27, and why this 19 chapter distance?

- Are the positions of the chapters (with initial letters) assinged or could they be in any other position?

- What is  74: 30-31 about ?

- etc ....



والله اعلم
Allah knows best.








Ltr gv include/exclude 112 bsm ch titles totals in Qur’an
س 60 6123 | 6011
ق 100 7034 | 7034
ر 200 12627 | 12403

E.g. total س seen in Qur’an = 6123 in 3535 verses (modern count), 6063 words; not included:
7:69 وزادكم and enhance you (pl.) في in الخلق the creation بصطه bastatan/extensively (with saad)

Likewise be cautious of current scripts thousand alifs were added ~200 years after revelation.

Not relevant imo as the topic is not about the total letter  Seen س  nor the word bastaten / بصطه  nor the number of alif's in the Quran.

I believe that the manuscript that has reached us and contains a numerical structure must be intended by God and can not be the result of a coincidence.

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/72/28/

So as to make manifest that they have conveyed the messages of their Lord. He encompasses what they have, and has counted everything in numbers.


https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/6/59/

For, with Him are the keys to the things that are beyond the reach of a created being's perception: none knows them but He. And He knows all that is on land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls but He knows it; and neither is there a grain in the earth's deep darkness, nor anything: living or dead, but is recorded in [His] clear decree


More answers to some objections :

Peace Noon waalqalami,

No offence intended, but it seems that you repeat the same objections, suggest to reread my response to your objections here:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610157.0
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610099.0



About some of the spelling:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610294.0
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610132.70


والله اعلم
Allah knows best.




Noon waalqalami

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #178 on: January 04, 2021, 01:30:52 PM »
- When you say 74 - 54 = 20?  then you  exclude the  letters  Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر    from chapter 54 or chapter 74 (which doesn't seem logic)

peace ibn_a -- you "exclude" all verses and words سقر saqar from both chapters?

likewise you "exclude" بسم in name الله the god الرحمن the almighty الرحىم the merciful

it’s part of the book, right?

even though this case it's still multiple it messes up other counts.


failures:
sum of verse numbers containing saqar
sum of  chapter 54 and chapter 74
total verses between chapter 54 and chapter 74
sum of total verses in chapter 54 and chapter 74
sum of the total letters of the verses containing the word saqar
etc...

failures etc., equates to about 95% of everything in the universe

Not relevant imo as the topic is not about the total letter  Seen س  nor the word bastaten / بصطه  nor the number of alif's in the Quran.

I believe that the manuscript that has reached us and contains a numerical structure must be intended by God and can not be the result of a coincidence.

which manuscript/text are you using exactly?

I like this manuscript especially to verify alifs …

Berlin, State Library: ms.or.fol. 4313 dated 606-652 CE (95.4% probability)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/176/handschrift/73





ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2021, 07:48:07 AM »
Salaam,




- When you say 74 - 54 = 20?  then you  exclude the  letters  Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر    from chapter 54 or chapter 74 (which doesn't seem logic)

peace ibn_a -- you "exclude" all verses and words سقر saqar from both chapters?

Peace Noon waalqalami,

I think it is more objective to include or exclude chapter 54 and chapter 74 rather than choosing which one to exclude.
And seen the fact that excluding chapter 54 and chapter 74  results in 19 chapters and 1957 letters "Seen Qaf Ra", seems like an intended pattern.





likewise you "exclude" بسم in name الله the god الرحمن the almighty الرحىم the merciful

it’s part of the book, right?

even though this case it's still multiple it messes up other counts.

Yes it is part of the Quran, I also think that its absence in chapter 9 and its presence inside chapter 27  might imply that it has to be handled differently.

This seems an obvious pattern imo.

















Note also this relation between chapter 9 and chapter 27 and number 19

- Chapter 9 has 129 verses.

9 + 129 = 138


- Chapter 27 has 93 verses.

27 + 93 = 120


From number 120 to number 138, there are 19 numbers.






Summary:

The Basmalah has 19 letters.

From chapter to chapter 27, there are 19 chapters.

From the first number 9 (in chapter 27) to the inside Basmalah, there are 19 verses.

From the inside Basmalah  to the last number 9 (in chapter 27), there are 19 verses.

From number 120  to number 138, there are 19 numbers.



Note: number 9 is mentioned 4 times in the Quran:

17:101
18:25
27:12
27:48


So it seems verry, verry unlikely that its location (in chapter 27 )is a coincidance





failures etc., equates to about 95% of everything in the universe

- Beside this, a text/book can also be made to contain a numerical structure.





which manuscript/text are you using exactly?

I like this manuscript especially to verify alifs …

Berlin, State Library: ms.or.fol. 4313 dated 606-652 CE (95.4% probability)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/176/handschrift/73

...

I believe that the manuscript (Hafs from Asim) that has reached us and contains a numerical structure must be intended by God and can not be the result of a coincidence.

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/72/28/

So as to make manifest that they have conveyed the messages of their Lord. He encompasses what they have, and has counted everything in numbers.


https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/6/59/

For, with Him are the keys to the things that are beyond the reach of a created being's perception: none knows them but He. And He knows all that is on land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls but He knows it; and neither is there a grain in the earth's deep darkness, nor anything: living or dead, but is recorded in [His] clear decree

- EDIT



source:

The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...RGYS1ORlk/view

-Quran : Uthmani Script.

http://scdofg.net/wp-content/uploads/flipbook/1/book.html#p=110

https://www.scribd.com/document/348386912/The-Sun-Rises-in-the-West-2018-Farid-Gabteni

https://www.academia.edu/37494956/Farid_Gabteni_-_The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_9th_edition_2018_




والله اعلم
Allah knows best.