Author Topic: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...  (Read 1076 times)

Noon waalqalami

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2018, 10:26:51 PM »
So you do not like omitting the two verses? And who is forcing you? Or because of that, you deny any numerical composition?

Not about what like/dislike, the two verses are clearly there in oldest manuscripts, etc. and haven't seen any numerical composition; what's presented is infatuation with numerology no consistent pattern whatsoever.

I do not agree with all what they claim...

good!

I didn't claim a repeatable pattern ...

good! there is none presented thus far.

My question was not a translation of 74:31.
My question was  your understanding of:

What will  convince / give certainty to those who were given the Book / Scripture
and increase the faith of those who believe
and remove all traces of doubt from those who were given the Book / Scripture and the believers.

74:31
لىستىقن surely convinced الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book
 وىزداد and increase الذىن the ones امنوا believes they of اىمنا faith of
 ولا and not ىرتاب doubted الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book والمومنون and the believing


it's clear what convinces them/everyone who believes is the book!

Thanks for sharing your observations, my question was:

How do you spell " number 19 "  in Arabic ?

تِسْعَ عَشْرَةَ (nineteen feminine entities)

تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ (nineteen masculine entities)

74:30 علىها over her/it (feminine) تسعه nonet عشر ten (group of nineteen/masculine i.e. controllers)

Qur'an Arabic if referring to nineteen in general/gender-less drop " ةَ " as in example with nine تِسْعَ

17:101 ولقد and surely اتىنا gave we of موسى moses تسع nine (the number 9) اىت signs بىنت clear

27:48 وكان and be فى in المدىنه the city تسعه nonet (group of nine/masculine) رهط entourage


Again, see examples provided... Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane

You say تِسْعَةُ رِجَالٍ [Nine men], and تِسْعٌ نِسْوَةٍ [Nine women]. (K.) When it means the things numbered, not the amount of the number, تسعة is imperf. decl., being regarded as a proper name: thus you say, تِسْعَةُ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ ثَمَانِيَةَ [Nine things are more than eight things]. (TA.) It is said in the Kur [xvii. 103], وَ لَقَدْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى تِسْعَ آيَاتٍ بَيِّنَاتٍ [And we formerly gave unto Moses nine evident signs

I know that all initial letters are not a multiple of 19 and I did not claim that.

good!

peace

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2018, 12:09:27 AM »
Peace Noon.
Infatuation with numbers?
All those facts, that you know for sure are there,  are coincidence?
Your motif is strange!
GOD said the Initials are proof ,why else have they been put there?
 Surah 10:  (ALR these Initial are the/Ayat/ proof! of Qoran )الر تِلكَ ءايٰتُ الكِتٰبِ الحَكيمِ
 Surah 11: (This Qoran/book has been perfected. Initials(ALR) are proof of its authorship by GOD!)الر كِتٰبٌ أُحكِمَت ءايٰتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَت مِن لَدُن
حَكيمٍ خَبيرٍ
Surah 12:  (Yes indeed, these ALR are the Ayat/ proof of Qoran)الر تِلكَ ءايٰتُ الكِتٰبِ المُبينِ
Surah 13:المر تِلكَ ءايٰتُ الكِتٰبِ وَالَّذى أُنزِلَ إِلَيكَ مِن رَبِّكَ الحَقُّ وَلٰكِنَّ أَكثَرَ النّاسِ لا يُؤمِنونَ (These ALMR initials are the Ayat/proof of the book, it is sent by Rabbika!)
Surah 15:الر تِلكَ ءايٰتُ الكِتٰبِ وَقُرءانٍ مُبينٍ (ALR initials are ayat/proof of the book ,this Qoran Mubeen!)
Surah 26:تِلكَ ءايٰتُ الكِتٰبِ المُبينِ   طسم  (TSM,these are the ayat/proof of the book Mubeen!)
Surah 27:طس تِلكَ ءايٰتُ القُرءانِ وَكِتابٍ مُبينٍ...etc
Do I need to carry on?
Of course you will be coming back to argue about consistency or translation or..., like -Tilka is not for the initials, it is not put after every initialled surah-...etc Or argue about Ayat does not mean proof there ... But whatever you bring GOD has the ultimate argument to beat all arguments. His book is perfect.
Like I said ,you do not have to believe in what you call numerology ,infatuation with numbers.
I am convinced. That remains the difference between us for now.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

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ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2018, 10:03:13 AM »
Salaam,


Salaam,


Is your understandig of this part of verse 31 :

That the purpose of mentioning (a group of )19 is for disbelievers to count and search for multiples of 19 in the Quran ?





Yes, numerology simply read stop inquiring when purpose is clearly stated. Search "fitnah" by brother Ayman as well.

Peace!


- Why would those who reject/disbelieve, count and search for multiples of 19 and a pattern in tha Quran,  in order to prove that the Quran is a revelation from God and a numerical structured preserved book ?


- Does that make sense?



ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2018, 09:58:34 AM »
Salaam,



74:31
لىستىقن surely convinced الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book
 وىزداد and increase الذىن the ones امنوا believes they of اىمنا faith of
 ولا and not ىرتاب doubted الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book والمومنون and the believing


it's clear what convinces them/everyone who believes is the book!




There is no" book" mentioned in this verse that :

will  convince / give certainty to those who were given the Book / Scripture
and increase the faith of those who believe
and remove all traces of doubt from those who were given the Book / Scripture and the believers.

It is the same (AAiddatahum  ( their number )    عِدَّتَهُمْ

that causes: 

a trial / fitna for those who disbelieve

and

will  convince / give certainty to those who were given the Book / Scripture

and increase the faith of those who believe

and remove all traces of doubt from those who were given the Book / Scripture and the believers.

and that may say those in their hearts (is) a disease and the disbelievers "What (does) intend Allah by this example?"

Thus does let go astray Allah whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows (the) hosts (of) your Lord except Him. And not it (is) but a reminder to (the) human beings.




تِسْعَ عَشْرَةَ (nineteen feminine entities)

تِسْعَةَ عَشَرَ (nineteen masculine entities)

74:30 علىها over her/it (feminine) تسعه nonet عشر ten (group of nineteen/masculine i.e. controllers)

Qur'an Arabic if referring to nineteen in general/gender-less drop " ةَ " as in example with nine تِسْعَ

17:101 ولقد and surely اتىنا gave we of موسى moses تسع nine (the number 9) اىت signs بىنت clear

27:48 وكان and be فى in المدىنه the city تسعه nonet (group of nine/masculine) رهط entourage


Again, see examples provided... Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane

You say تِسْعَةُ رِجَالٍ [Nine men], and تِسْعٌ نِسْوَةٍ [Nine women]. (K.) When it means the things numbered, not the amount of the number, تسعة is imperf. decl., being regarded as a proper name: thus you say, تِسْعَةُ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ ثَمَانِيَةَ [Nine things are more than eight things]. (TA.) It is said in the Kur [xvii. 103], وَ لَقَدْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى تِسْعَ آيَاتٍ بَيِّنَاتٍ [And we formerly gave unto Moses nine evident signs


Thanks for your explanation

In Arabic:
Number nineteenرقم تسعة عشر

http://arabic.speak7.com/arabic_numbers.htm

seem as in:

Quran:
74:30   Over it (are) nineteen : عليها تسعه عشر


AAiddatahum ( their number )    عِدَّتَهُمْ 

in 74:30 refers to 19

whatever it is : quantity, number, total,  sum,  group ....



Noon waalqalami

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2018, 06:13:08 PM »
Thanks for your explanation

In Arabic:
Number nineteenرقم تسعة عشر

http://arabic.speak7.com/arabic_numbers.htm

peace, above is not qur'an leads to impreciseness.

whatever it is : quantity, number, total,  sum,  group ....

"her/it" precisely refers to abyss which preside over nineteen entities i.e. "group" of controllers (masculine plural).

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2018, 03:02:28 AM »
Peace Noon.
"Her/it" precisely refers to revelation "Ayat". Over the revelation of GOD sits as authentication/proof/ 19... is 19.
As it happens the scripture of Moses had the same composition. This is the difference between GOD s words and ours. The mathematical composition.
GO on brother noon ,tell me your "precise" (Abyss) is more precise than my "precise"(Ayat)?
Also tell me "Thiaabaka Fatahir" means "wash your clothes" (74:4)? Or what do you make of 74:1-5?
The whole surah is telling you "what is the secret?" 
The secret has come out and continues to grow. We have the means to check the Mathematical structure of GOD s words.
GOD  design of His scripture is mathematically locked.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

ibn_a

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2018, 10:12:26 AM »
Salaam,

peace, above is not qur'an leads to impreciseness.

"her/it" precisely refers to abyss which preside over nineteen entities i.e. "group" of controllers (masculine plural).

Even if it is a  group of nineteen  ( controllers / Malaika  ) upon it, her /  over  it, her / garding it, her  " ABYSS  / SAQAR " .

How does knowing, that the number of this group is nineteen i.e. (AAiddatahum   their number     عِدَّتَهُمْ )

 
causes

a trial / fitna for those who disbelieve

and

will  convince / give certainty to those who were given the Book / Scripture

and increase the faith of those who believe

and remove all traces of doubt from those who were given the Book / Scripture and the believers.

and that may say those in their hearts (is) a disease and the disbelievers "What (does) intend Allah by this example?"

Thus does let go astray Allah whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows (the) hosts (of) your Lord except Him. And not it (is) but a reminder to (the) human beings.



- It is also very important to consider that "SAQAR" and its description and number (  group of ) 19 is God's  response to the claim that the Quran is " magic and  words of a human". 74:24-25

- It seems that "SAQAR" and its description and number (  group of ) 19  will prouve that this claim is false.

- Otherwise what would be the purpose of mentioning number (  group of ) 19  after this claim about the Quran.

- If the Quran is a " numerically composed book "  based on number 19,  then that is a clear response  / argument / proof for its divine origin and preservation, against this  claim :  " magic and  words of a human".


That is my understanding.




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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2018, 10:41:22 AM »
Peace ibn_a .
Brother Noon wants it both ways:

1- That over her/ it is nineteen is the number of Malika
2- That is a "fitna" to those who believe "number 19 " is the mathematical composition.

Why only those who believe "number 19"? Why not all other groups that are hostile to Qoran?
 And why even acknowledge those who believe "number 19"?
Is the reason that some keep insisting is because they see it as a threat ? I wonder why?
 Is GOD not powerful enough to negate falsehood about His scripture?

If they believe what GOD is saying(That He preserves the book) They should not worry!!!

I do not worry about them not believing "number 19",because I know that GOD protects more than any of us can. The Truth is more powerful than falsehood.
If  they think"number 19" is a falsehood it will be shown up eventually. No need to worry.
The problem I see is they are not able to show this so far.
So let us wait and see?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Noon waalqalami

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2018, 01:34:28 PM »
peace

and

will  convince / give certainty to those who were given the Book / Scripture

there is no "and will convince" in verse!

لىستىقن surely convinced الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book

Quote
and remove all traces of doubt from those who were given the Book / Scripture and the believers.

there is no "and remove all traces of doubt" in verse!

ولا and not ىرتاب doubted الذىن the ones اوتوا given they of الكتب the book

Quote
and that may say those in their hearts (is) a disease and the disbelievers "What (does) intend Allah by this example?"

more precisely what numerologists who reject verses keep inquiring about!

ولىقول and let speaketh الذىن the ones فى in قلوبهم hearts theirs مرض illness والكفرون and the rejecting ماذا what hath اراد intends الله the god بهذا in this مثلا similitude of?

So let us wait and see?

wait and see what non-existent interlock/code you keep running away avoid answering?

good logic

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Re: ... And He has counted everything in numbers ...
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2018, 12:21:18 AM »
Peace Noon.
Look brother, I answered this question by asking you to visit the threads that you took part in about interlock and code 19 with brother Bahman.
they are still existing here. find them and recap.

Why waste time since it has already been discussed with you?

Every angle of interlock has been explained by brother Bahman to you and those that took part in these threads.
 
I am here ,will not run away from you brother. I like our conversations.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/