... And He has counted everything in numbers ...

[Noon waalqalami]

Is your understandig of this part of verse 31 :

That the purpose of mentioning (a group of )19 is for disbelievers to count and search for multiples of 19 in the Quran ?

Explain your understanding of the rest of 74:31 ...

Yes, numerology simply read stop inquiring when purpose is clearly stated. Search "fitnah" by brother Ayman as well.

The god never says anything specific about "counting 19 in the great reading" in the same way that he never said anything specific about Bukhari. The god tells us in general that the counting of 19 is an attractive temptation for the unappreciative. So you see the unappreciative not only attracted to counting 19 in the great reading but also in all sorts of things such as calendar dates and magic hexagon, etc., etc. They are attracted to counting 19 everywhere. I bet that when they take bus #19 or flight #19 they get aroused.

Peace!

[imrankhawaja]

apparently there is no such value of any number/numbers. in Quran

but there are always some amazing things what author always try to highlight it with letter  و

like
by winds.
by sun,moon stars
by winds
by fast gallopers / horses
by time
By the fig and the olive.And Mount Sinai. And this land of peace.

so many things to consider but why not any NUMBER 19 not even anywhere its mention " BY NUMEROLOGY "

logical God dont wana tell something in code words.



 

[good logic]

Peace All.
There is no doubt that GOD has "counted the numbers" in Qoran and issued a challenge to the generation that has the means(Technology/Science) to check it;
GOD is not asking anyone to be a mathematician or to receive salvation by mathematics, nor is GOD asking us to idolise numbers or ignore them completely. GOD is sending a clear message that Qoran is mathematically composed beyond a human knowledge and only GOD is capable of such a composition.
 A book that tells stories, gives instructions, commands, lessons,...Yet also numerically collected and arranged in letters, words sentences and chapters.
"...if only a miracle could be sent to himm..Wait ...the future belongs to GOD..." So the wait is over:

Example of a very minute FACT of the composition of Qoran among hundreds:
The frequency of occurrence of "Q" in Sura "Q"(No.50) is 57, 19x3
The frequency of "Q" in the only other Q-initialed sura (No.42) is also 57, 19x3
The total occurrence of the letter "Q" in the only two "Q"-initialed suras is 114,=19x6, as we read in sura "Q", the "Q" indicates the Quran. 114 is the total number of suras in the Quran.
Like the letter "Q" in each sura (42&50), the word Quran is mentioned in the Quran 57 times in referral to this Quran(Not Qoran other than this!). 57=19x3 
Sura 42 has 53 verses and 42+53=95 , 19x5
Sura 50 has 45 verses and 50+45=95, 19x5
The number of "Q"s in all the verses numbered "19" throughout the Quran is 76, 19x4 .

Coincidence?? Or is this not a fact?...Among lots of other deliberate mathematical arrangements of Qoran..
One can argue that humans are taking this to the point of trials or not admitting their 19 failures...etc
But GOD has counted the numbers accurately, precisely and deliberately for us . Another sign/miracle among many other signs all around us.
It does not matter about our redemption,being good/doing good is more important, but it is there for all to see.
Also, with the aid of computers, some are trying to imitate 19 code to argue their part as humans always try to argue. Unfortunately coming with even a complete chapter that is mathematically composed for example like chapter 1,is impossible for them:

[Qoran 2:106] When we abrogate any miracle, or cause it to be forgotten, we produce a better miracle, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that God is Omnipotent?
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[ibn_a]

Salaam,

Right, infatuation with numerology/counting, etc.

74:31 وما and not جعلنا made we of اصحب companions النار the fire الا except ملىكه malāikatan/controllers وما and not جعلنا made we of عدتهم count theirs الا except فتنه fitnatan/infatuation/trial للذىن for the ones كفروا reject they of ...

Could you explain your understanding of the rest of 74:31 ...

[Layth]

Salam,

I see what you are trying to get at. That the letter N is spelt "NUN".
NO ,not necessarily. I am saying in chapter 68,GOD in His composition of the text has spelt it "NUN", and explained why as far as my findings and checking goes..

No, He hasn't. You have tampered with the text and have made it spell this way (just to recover a missing "N" that you believe should exist - by force). The Quran doesn't spell out letters phonetically, and, as I mentioned, if you wanted to be consistent in this tampering, then you need to change the spelling of all the initials (which you won't because it will mess-up the counts).

See the examples and anomalies we are talking about here in this thread.
Like 21:87:وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ
Why is the letter N spelt "NUN" here as well? What is the relationship between this and surah 68?

Because its part of a "word" and not a letter...Would you say that the word "AhQAF" in 46:21 means that all "Q" initials need to be spelt "QAF"...The logic of this forced spelling is not even an argument.

My view this is telling us that  "N" in chapter 68 is spelt the same and confirmed in 68:48:فَاصبِر لِحُكمِ رَبِّكَ وَلا تَكُن كَصاحِبِ الحوتِ إِذ نادىٰ وَهُوَ مَكظومٌ
GOD could have easily added 1 more N by saying "younes" here  but did not because the total n would have been 134.

Actually, if He had called him "Younus" in 68:48 then you would have been fine because it would have eliminated the need for the forced misspelling "NUN" and this strange and bizzare logic of why it was done (God intended to spell it that way!).

Regards,

[good logic]

Peace Layth.
I disagree with you. You are assuming what you said I did. I know for sure that is not the case. 
Your example is wrong . "AHQAF"  is a word  with meaning ,Dha NUN  is not a word with meaning it is two words ,the latter being the letter N. It is spelt in most Qorans NUN why?
Because GOD wanted to spell the two letters  of N (the only two  in all of Qoran) NUN for the purpose of "counting the numbers" .
Interlock of the whole Qoran also confirms this for me.
Actually if GOD called him Younes in 68:48,interlock would not work. The letter N would be in the wrong place with few less letters missing as "Sahibi Al Hut" is longer in letters.
This makes sense along with the connection of Younes in both verses.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Makaveli]

Quran is to be read phonetically given the fact that it lacked modern recitation diacritics, and strongly relied on phonetics and is highly descriptive as a language. It is also a way to create dualistic understanding of the text, one dark and profane and another occult and leading to the light. Alr-sl , is actually spelt Alra-Selam, given the fact that Alif-Lam-Ra is a separate formula in the Quran and Siin & Lam are pronounced 'Selam' meaning soundness or wholeness. Ra-selam is a phenomenon when someone recieves "peace" or is bestowed peace during his spiritual journey and by living intact with the universal law. It does not mean to send or the messenger. Messenger is another traditional deception, according to which there are two groups of people:

1. The Proles(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proles), leading miserable lives until the "messenger" comes and explains them how to go about their day-to-day activities, like using rocks for hygeine purposes and to obey 'God's laws' (meaning the religious authorities), as if they did not know it without the "revelation";

2. The Messengers - those who are directly commanded by God to give 'glad tidings' for the believes and "warnings" of eternal punishment of Hell for disbelievers.

Word 'send' also means to put in a certain condition hence while outdated but there used to be a saying (still is active in most languages) to "send a curse" or "send blessings" etc.

There are of course the prophets, written as al-nabiyan, who are per root definition "people with inner seed of understanding, not experienced with five senses", i.e. insightful folk.

[good logic]

Peace All.
Qoran has been the centre stage of all sorts of "theories" about the meaning of certain words according to root letter.
One can understand why all the different interpretations and sects.
What is needed, for those that claim new meanings/insight, whoever they are, is to work on a project of translating the whole text.
Just working on different words is not going to give any  message.
Two questions arise:
1-Is the Qoran we have now useful/important/worthwhile to take seriously?
2-Can all of it be translated using a chosen/better" insight?
Then it becomes worthwhile discussing any new insight and its word meanings.

If on the other hand one would say the Qoran we have is not the original or has been tampered with...Then evidence or work on this finding needs to be provided
This thread is discussing the Qoran as we have it now after all.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[Makaveli]

A message delivered externally in an decrypted manner will be like lighting striking misbehaving slaves when they try to open a veil of shadows, i.e. trying to get insight while being covered with veil of ignorance. This will lead the folk to "disbelieve", because the slaves have to fear their Lord(s), otherwise the hidden knowledge will so overwhelm them, they will move to atheism, which itself is spiritual death. Secular religion is spiritual slumbering when religion is deprieved of its occult symbolism.

[imrankhawaja]

hmm so God also count like humans 

i was thinking he already knows everything.