Author Topic: Question to the former sunni muslims here  (Read 3770 times)

lena953

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Question to the former sunni muslims here
« on: April 19, 2018, 03:40:38 AM »
Peace,

I've got a question to the former sunni muslims here especially to the men. How could you belive in Hadiths, which degrade the status of women like women are the slaves of men, women make the majority of the people in hellfire, women being cursed and all that nasty stuff? I've get into a lot of a discussions with sunni muslims especially with my boyfriend about those Hadiths. I know I shouldn't mind what other people think or say, because all that matters is my relationship to god. But if those topics come up I get so emotionally attached and it is hard not to judge them because of their opinions about this. I know this is the wrong behavior, so I want to understand how they can belive in such stuff. The discussions most of the time end with the following " God has a different idea about the role of women and marriage than you, accept that. Your iman is not strong enough. You don't believe in a hereafter, otherwise you would know that the men who take adventage out of those rules get punished for it. You only follow God/quran alone, because you can't accept your role as women."
However I can't imagine that anyone, who is a good person, read those Hadiths and think "wow that's how I always imagined the role of women and marriage to be like." It's hard for me to belive that anyone, who thinks such stuff is true, is a good person. So help me out, what did you think about those Hadiths?

Peace, Lena

Makaveli

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 05:17:20 AM »
Degradation of women is innate to any patriarchal cultures including the Right wing agenda. In 50's it was perfectly normal to 'educate' your wife, today due to an increase in political correctness it is mostly associated with Islamic world, but of course is not at all limited to it.





The question I would ask you is how could you believe the hadiths that tell you about men being providers and sole caretakers of women and women need a strong masculine sholder to rely on? If you believed those seemingly 'good' hadiths you are no better than those,who accept "mysogynists" hadiths, because the former is the result of the latter, they are interrelated. You have to think deeper and not just at the tip of the iceberg.

If you accept yourself as an object of "support", "care" and "protection" then you BELONG to the subject of "support", "care" and "protection".

See how primitive and black&white is the worldview of majority of people and how simple it is to adjust the subject and show the other half of a coin.

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Jafar

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2018, 12:39:57 AM »

I've got a question to the former sunni muslims here especially to the men. How could you belive in Hadiths, which degrade the status of women like women are the slaves of men, women make the majority of the people in hellfire, women being cursed and all that nasty stuff? I've get into a lot of a discussions with sunni muslims especially with my boyfriend about those Hadiths. I know I shouldn't mind what other people think or say, because all that matters is my relationship to god. But if those topics come up I get so emotionally attached and it is hard not to judge them because of their opinions about this. I know this is the wrong behavior, so I want to understand how they can belive in such stuff. The discussions most of the time end with the following " God has a different idea about the role of women and marriage than you, accept that. Your iman is not strong enough. You don't believe in a hereafter, otherwise you would know that the men who take adventage out of those rules get punished for it. You only follow God/quran alone, because you can't accept your role as women."


There are many ideas / dogmas that was indoctrinated to me that even though I can see that it doesn't make any sense I was too AFRAID to even thinking about the validity of such ideas and dogmas.

The FEAR came from:

1. Society, family, friends, teachers, imams etc..
The fear of becoming a 'murtad' or a 'kufr' and being rejected by society.

2. God.
The act of 'doubting' the 'idea' that are "revelation from God" will makes God very angry.
And when He is angry He will torture the 'doubter' with horrible treatment for all eternity after they die.
The above specifically pushed the "survival mode" button inside my brain (or anyone else brain for that matter including yours) and do anything in order to 'survive'. It's a basic human instinct.. survival is #1 priority.

The above is valid not only for "Sunni Muslims" but basically all member of religious sect or political ideology (Such as Facism, Leninism, Maoism, Jucheism in North Korea etc..) All religion / political ideology depends on authority to instill FEAR within the society in order to CONTROL them.

If you want your boyfriend to think "clearly", or anyone else for that matter, then the first step is to work on how to dispel the FEAR. The absent of fear shall at least makes him be brave enough to start questioning and rethink some of the doubt that already lingering in his mind. Might not be the issue of "role of women" though... it might be something else...

It is NOT EASY.. and most of the time it doesn't work.

Psychological experiments shows that when a conflict arises between conscience and fear coming from an  authority, fear won 99% of the time.

It takes a great amount of bravery to do so and nobody else can help him do it except himself.

Thus it is much better to start with yourselves first.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds!"
-- Bob Marley


imrankhawaja

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 09:02:26 PM »

The FEAR came from:


peace jaffar.
hope you doing well.

the FEAR is in our nature installed by the LORD of universe.

good logic

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2018, 06:57:54 AM »
Peace lena953.
I agree with you. The way Qoran has been translated by hadiths is embarrassing and oppressive.
GOD s wisdom goes beyond all issues. What God is saying in Qoran needs a lot of pondering and reflection ,.
 
Qoran and Paedophilia, Qoran and slavery, Qoran and homosexuality, Qoran and oppression, Qoran and gender, Qoran and morals, Qoran and different generations, Qoran and?
GOD is very much aware of every generation and its behavioural cycles.  To me Qoran never condemns innocent people.  All God s messages and  Qoran have come as a mercy to all the generations  as a way out of all issues.

Do you think GOD is not aware of slavery, oppression, paedophilia, gender bias? etc through the generations? Do you think that GOD condemns without justice? Do you think that GOD is not aware of the various stages of life of different generations?

Qoran has set a way of life according to GOD s system and offers a way out of other ?systems?. Qoran comes to ?free? the true believer by ?wiping out all his/her issues?.
GOD is forgiver most Merciful to all believers in every generation.
For example, Qoran gave clear instructions about who to marry, yet allowed existing marriages of the time it came to remain intact.
Qoran gave clear instructions about slavery,yet allowed (under certain fair condition)  those who had slaves and encouraged them to free the slaves.  etc?
In short,It is a "man s world"! Some prefer it that way.
Students of Qoran know to follow the "best path " in it:
1-Do to others...
2- One wife/husband to be just.No sex allowed with anyone else.
3-No  oppression.
4-Argue/encourage by what is best.
5-Rights for everyone,like you would want your rights.
6-Stand for what is fair and right as per GOD s best path.
...etc.

The lady is right to question the religion of men.
Or shall we expect  to adhere to hadiths ways?
Or shall we keep on following our old generations, grandfathers and fathers?

Lady,I have no excuses for you why the world of religion is the way it is. It seems unfair and oppressive.
All of us need to fight prejudice ,oppression against women, weak men and children.
The way things are in the religion does not look like "following the best path" instructed in Qoran.
Part of the solution needs to start at home by the fathers and the sons of this and future generations.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
We, this generation, if we say we believe Qoran,then we need to ponder its way and apply it to ourselves. Qoran encourages freedom.knowledge.justice ,forgiveness, set an example?etc. GOD then does the rest.

,Qoran never ever confirms nonsense and fables!!! Qoran never confirms bias and oppression!!!Qoran never ever confirms ?Men s? warped logic/understanding and arrogance!!!!

Sometimes the mind boggles!In the past, Men(some!),yes Men(Some) have interpreted GOD s words , women were too busy being responsible for the home and siblings and doing their duty to GOD,women also trusted men!.  Men took advantage of that and translated GOD s words to suit their big egos and oppress women, weak men other races and children.
What a travesty of justice! Never mind, the game will soon be over. Let them rejoice in their fables and oppression for a bit.
GOD bless all the true believers that are now exposing these ?big egos? and false religions .
If you despair of the religion,please do not despair of Qoran. Or at least study it  in detail,then decide.
May the Lord bless you and help you with the issues.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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burhan

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 02:59:16 AM »
Peace lena953,

You can't just lay the blame at doorstep of hadith. The Quran has problems too. God never speaks to women directly. Not a single verse that start "O'women". Except for 33:32 which is condescending in it's tone.

By never speaking to women directly, the Quran robbed them of their voice. Have you noticed other than Mary no woman is mentioned by name. It's always "woman of so and so".

Every commandment issued to women is via their proxy (men). It's always "Tell your women ...", "Keep your women", "your woman".

Do you think that consistently referring to women as the property of men is empowering. What kind of culture would that language and tone have created?

How would you feel if women were addressed this way today. Pick up any news paper or book and change the sentence "men and women" to "men and their women" and see how you feel.





 

     
Peace.

good logic

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 05:55:05 AM »
Peace Burhan.
You think "Ya Ayuha Alladina Aamanu" are men only?
I find your understanding of Qoran  is a problem, not Qoran according to my study of the book.

GOD bless you.
Peace.


TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Jafar

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 06:20:31 AM »

the FEAR is in our nature installed by the LORD of universe.

Of course but so what?

FEAR is the emotion needed to survive, it exist in nearly all carbon based living being....
Served as warning system of prominent danger which shall endangered the continuation of your life.

3 type of emotions registered as high priority by the brain (of all animal )
1. Hunger and Thirst
2. Fear
3. Sexual urge (after their sexual organ has been fully developed)

(1) and (2) related to the survival of the being itself.
(3) related to the survival of the species.

Fear is the most effective method to control human.
And some few smart human leverage that to control other human in accordance to his/her wishes.
From religious leaders to mafia bosses.

That's why I  :bravo: :bravo:to those who managed to conquer their fear and sided with his/her own conscience and common sense.

Statistically speaking only 1% among human are able to do that.

HP_TECH

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »
So we are just going to overlook the fact that she has a boyfriend......
ok then carry on
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My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

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Re: Question to the former sunni muslims here
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 10:07:44 AM »
Lena, why do you have a boyfriend?