Author Topic: Hafs or Warsh  (Read 11628 times)

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2018, 01:41:06 PM »
Peace Imran.
What do you mean claim?
 I have provided you with  my take on "purify your garments" of surah 74.- i.e the mathematical structure of Qoran- and given you tools to check it yourself.
You have to do the work. Or ignore completely .
You say there is no maths code/structure, arguing with old manuscripts without bringing the history/evidence of their origin.
That is where we are brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

 
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reel

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2018, 02:16:51 PM »
Peace reel..
Unfortunately there are no recording of early memorisations to check this .
Also memorisation is learnt from the mushafs that are available at the time.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

No bro. I was taught certain chapters orally during bedtime. I was just an infant back then. Didn't know how to read and write.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2018, 11:45:06 PM »
Peace reel.
I am not saying one needs to read and write to memorise Qoran.
I am saying we memorise what we are given to memorise. Or do you check it first?
So I am asking are the two memorisations of the two different arrangements of Qoran identical to the letter?
Also as you know, some memorise hafs and others memorise warsh .And we know for a fact these are not identical to the letter.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2018, 02:38:16 PM »
So I am asking are the two memorisations of the two different arrangements of Qoran identical to the letter?

Peace, perhaps study more and like prayer post less until you know what you're talking about.

If talking about "man-made" verse arrangements there are ?many? while text is relatively same.

Example (no code else would show up on repeated verses 300+) or show us ?imaginary? code?

Current manuscript/s inconsistent extra alif in verse 17:48 which is repeated verbatim in 29:9 ?

17:48   انظر كيف ضربوا لك الأمثال فضلوا فلا يستطيعون سبيلا      
150900200 201080 800200261 3020 130140500130 808003061 80301 106040091070650 60210301

150900200 201080 800200261 3020 13014050030 808003061 80301 106040091070650 60210301
25:9   انظر كيف ضربوا لك الأمثل فضلوا فلا يستطيعون سبيلا      

While the oldest manuscripts are more consistent ?

17:48 انظر observe كىف how ضربوا strike they of لك to you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples فضلوا so astray they of فلا so not ىستطىعون capable being سبىلا path of
25:9 انظر observe كىف how ضربوا strike they of لك to you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples فضلوا so astray they of فلا so not ىستطىعون capable being سبىلا path of


https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/48/handschrift/163



https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/25/vers/9/handschrift/163





good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2018, 02:53:25 PM »
Peace Noon.
You say ,quote:
While the oldest manuscripts are more consistent ?

Provide the original verse(17:48) that the prophet wrote when Qoran was being revealed, then we can be certain about the Alif?
Can t you find that copy, the one that should have come before all these old manuscripts?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2018, 05:42:14 PM »
peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic.
it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 الأمثال in current manuscript/s and should be...

13:17 ... ىضرب yaḍribu/striketh الله the god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
14:25 ... وىضرب wayaḍribu/and striketh الله the god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
14:45 ... وضربنا waḍarabnā/and strike we of لكم for you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
16:74 فلا so not تضربوا taḍribū/thou strike ye of لله to god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
17:48 انظر observe كىف how ضربوا ḍarabū/strike they of لك to you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples فضلوا so astray they of فلا so not ىستطىعون capable being سبىلا path of


These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

25:9 انظر observe كىف how ضربوا ḍarabū/strike they of لك to you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples فضلوا so astray they of فلا so not ىستطىعون capable being سبىلا path of
24:35 ... وىضرب wayaḍribu/and striketh الله the god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
25:39 ... ضربنا ḍarabnā/strike we of له to him الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
29:43 وتلك and those الامثل l-amthālu/the examples نضربها naḍribuhā/we strike them للناس to the humankind وما and not ىعقلها understand them الا except العالمون the knowing
59:21 ... وتلك and those الامثل l-amthālu/the examples نضربها naḍribuhā/we strike them للناس to the humankind لعلهم perhaps they ىتفكرون reflecting

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2018, 12:09:39 AM »
Peace Noon.
Again you are saying this, quote:
NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 الأمثال in current manuscript/s and should be...

You are not coming up with the history why the old manuscripts are the original.

After all if you are claiming letters were added to the current ones, then how was Qoran in your view preserved?

 If on the other hand you are saying most  or all the old manuscript have not got the added letter , then bring also the original verses written before the new arrangement to compare?

If you are saying they added letters and number verses in the new versions,  the way the alphabet evolved and the numbering of verses were introduced ,  then how do you reconcile the preservation?

For you, the only way to make sure is by comparison of the before and after the arrangement  verses are compared.

For me, Qoran s verses are saying to us GOD has preserved His letters, words chapter and arrangement (Jamaahu) with a mathematical structure. Impossible to change the original tablet/composition of the book.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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imrankhawaja

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2018, 07:18:27 AM »
peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic
it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

brother instead of telling math we need to educate brother GL something what he always avoid same happen with this of your post.

SEE the brackets GL use magnifer it will help.

example

book x  1st version God is One
book x 2nd version God is not one.

book y 1st version God is one
book y 2nd version God is one
book y 3 till 1000th version God is one.

@ GL now collect all the older versions and find us a difference ?
not those difference what we already discussed that never change the meanings as full.

now its your take.  i m educating u as well as a brother. usually people who have interest in math have brain. but now i undertand coders are fake mathematicians thats y they are dumb to understand simple logic. and simple posts and simple questions.

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2018, 07:30:15 AM »
Peace  Imran.
Give me a comparison with the copy of the prophet.  Or a copy that existed during the prophet s time.
Then we can see the consistency of the old manuscripts?
This method is the only fool proof one if you discount the mathematical structure.
You say I cannot use a certain mushaf  that is not "consistent" but you use one/ones that you have not provided history/evidence for that is /or comes from the original?
What is this logic then?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

imrankhawaja

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2018, 07:35:24 AM »


For me, Qoran s verses are saying to us GOD has preserved His letters, words chapter and arrangement (Jamaahu) with a mathematical structure. Impossible to change the original tablet/composition of the book.



Add more things
for you ( dnt know the method what need to apply)
for you ( method is not consistent)
for you (method and claims depend on secondary sources)
example if he never find out added verses from hadith he never make a claim  :!

more examples like spell noon as nwn and double multiple of 19 no answers so far?

lot more things but to be honest when u have lot of drawbacks in your theory how can u carry on debating things without solving these apparent issues ?
thats how you ll tell people about math of quran when u guys dnt even know what u did with math?

how you teach somebody when u by yourself dnt know WHAT to teach ?
but before teaching WHAT to teach we always need to know HOW to teach ? make sense