Author Topic: Hafs or Warsh  (Read 7789 times)

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2018, 08:18:06 AM »
Peace Imran.
You say, quote:

Add more things
for you ( dnt know the method what need to apply)
for you ( method is not consistent)
for you (method and claims depend on secondary sources)
example if he never find out added verses from hadith he never make a claim 

I say that I am satisfied with what I have checked. And I have given you the link/tools to do the same. If it is an issue for you ,it is not for me.

As for, what you say here, quote:
more examples like spell noon as nwn and double multiple of 19 no answers so far?

 You have missed my answer, here it again:

GOD has decided to spell the only two letter N in Qoran as NUN and gave us the explanation why and the  hints.
One of them in 21:87 وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ
The other one in 68:1 نُونْ وَالقَلَمِ وَما يَسطُرونَ
And the hint is the subject of 21:87 and 68: 48 فَاصبِر لِحُكمِ رَبِّكَ وَلا تَكُن كَصاحِبِ الحوتِ إِذ نادىٰ وَهُوَ مَكظومٌ 
Dha Nun and Sahibi Al Hut . GOD could have easily said Jonah in both but did not Why?
 Because of the logical explanation tokeep with the numerical structure of His book. As it happens both ذَا النّونِ   and  صاحِبِ الحوتِ   have letters that fit it in with the structure  locking the whole book .
Still have an issue?
Then give me your take on why did GOD spell the letter N in 21:87 as NUN? And why in only the two verses GOD is calling Jonah other than his real name?

Because you will come back here saying N in 68:1 is spelt as N  and it is consistent in all the old manuscripts and we will end up going in a circle because you are not providing the history/evidence linking to the original copy.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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imrankhawaja

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »

GOD has decided to spell the only two letter N in Qoran as NUN and gave us the explanation why

brilliant so u know what God decided  :yay:
Did God personally told you about this ?

where r tbe explaination of why he decide to write in such a way ? evidence plz

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2018, 10:15:41 AM »
Peace Imran.
I have  cited the verses for you. I have given you my take on it .
I have asked your take on it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2018, 11:34:37 AM »
Brother Imran, I think the above should be enough,but let me elaborate more on 21:87:
وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ
Why do I think this verse is indicating to us how to spell the letter N in 68:1?
There are 14 different initial letters used in Qoran, this verse is screaming  N the initial (The only one in 68:1) also is spelt like the N in this verse. Count how many N s in it?
Yes brother GOD has put exactly 14 N s in that verse  as indication. Or it is coincidence to you?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

reel

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2018, 04:35:28 PM »
Peace reel.
I am not saying one needs to read and write to memorise Qoran.
I am saying we memorise what we are given to memorise. Or do you check it first?


You can check against other people's memorization of the same chapters.

Quote
So I am asking are the two memorisations of the two different arrangements of Qoran identical to the letter?
Also as you know, some memorise hafs and others memorise warsh .And we know for a fact these are not identical to the letter.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Oh, we all are aware of that, aren't we? Which one to go for can be understood through Quran's inbuilt anti corruption system. Hafs matches it. But not warsh.

"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2018, 07:54:01 PM »
Oh, we all are aware of that, aren't we? Which one to go for can be understood through Quran's inbuilt anti corruption system. Hafs matches it. But not warsh.

Peace, not hafs/warsh rather compare oldest manuscripts to new (obvious consistency errors).

3:182 ذلك such بما in what قدمت have set forth اىدىكم hands yours وان and that الله the god لىس not is بظلام biẓallāmin/in darkness (with alif) للعبىد to the devotees?

8:51 ذلك such بما in what قدمت have set forth اىدىكم hands yours وان and that الله the god لىس not is بظلم biẓallāmin/in darkness (no alif?) للعبىد to the devotees?

likewise no proven anti-corruption system other than the preserved old manuscripts since they do all their nonsense without two verses.

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2018, 11:49:06 PM »
Peace reel.
I know what you say here is true to some extent, quote:

You can check against other people's memorization of the same chapters.

But the important issue still remains, do the memorisation of new arrangement of Qoran matches the memorisation of the arrangement during the time of the prophet letter by letter, by word and verse by verse ? How can we check that?

 One can argue it is very difficult to add/take away whole chapters but words and even small chapters can easily be added or taken away especially if the book is being collected by "experts" that are supposedly trusted and backed by the leaders.

 If there is a trace of even a letter being different/changed then history of the collection needs checking thoroughly. How do we do that ? Can we do that?
This is when the "preservation" will also be questioned. How is the book been/being preserved?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

ibn_a

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #77 on: September 24, 2018, 12:35:32 AM »
Salaam,


Doesn't this:
peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic.
it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 الأمثال in current manuscript/s and should be...

13:17 ... ىضرب yaḍribu/striketh الله the god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
14:25 ... وىضرب wayaḍribu/and striketh الله the god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
14:45 ... وضربنا waḍarabnā/and strike we of لكم for you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
16:74 فلا so not تضربوا taḍribū/thou strike ye of لله to god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
17:48 انظر observe كىف how ضربوا ḍarabū/strike they of لك to you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples فضلوا so astray they of فلا so not ىستطىعون capable being سبىلا path of


These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

25:9 انظر observe كىف how ضربوا ḍarabū/strike they of لك to you الامثل l-amthāla/the examples فضلوا so astray they of فلا so not ىستطىعون capable being سبىلا path of
24:35 ... وىضرب wayaḍribu/and striketh الله the god الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
25:39 ... ضربنا ḍarabnā/strike we of له to him الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
29:43 وتلك and those الامثل l-amthālu/the examples نضربها naḍribuhā/we strike them للناس to the humankind وما and not ىعقلها understand them الا except العالمون the knowing
59:21 ... وتلك and those الامثل l-amthālu/the examples نضربها naḍribuhā/we strike them للناس to the humankind لعلهم perhaps they ىتفكرون reflecting


and this:
Peace, not hafs/warsh rather compare oldest manuscripts to new (obvious consistency errors).

3:182 ذلك such بما in what قدمت have set forth اىدىكم hands yours وان and that الله the god لىس not is بظلام biẓallāmin/in darkness (with alif) للعبىد to the devotees’

8:51 ذلك such بما in what قدمت have set forth اىدىكم hands yours وان and that الله the god لىس not is بظلم biẓallāmin/in darkness (no alif?) للعبىد to the devotees’

likewise no proven anti-corruption system other than the preserved old manuscripts since they do all their nonsense without two verses.


contradict  what God says about the preservation of the Qur'an:

15:9    Indeed, We We have sent down the Reminder, and indeed, We of it (are) surely Guardians.

41:41   Indeed, those who disbelieve in the Reminder when it comes to them. And indeed, it (is) surely a Book mighty.
41:42   Not comes to it the falsehood from before it and not from behind it. A Revelation from (the) All-Wise, (the) Praiseworthy.

56:77   Indeed, it (is) surely, a Quran noble,
56:78   In a Book well-guarded

72:28   So as to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses all that is with them,
             and He has counted everything in numbers.

85:21   Nay! It (is) a Quran Glorious,
85:22   In a Tablet, Guarded.




والله اعلم
Allah knows best.



Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2018, 09:00:35 AM »
contradict  what God says about the preservation of the Qur'an:

peace, see oldest manuscripts الامثل l-amthāla/the examples (no extra alif) same word

13:17  الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
14:25  الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
14:45  الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
16:74  الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
17:48  الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
25:9 الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
24:35 الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
25:39  الامثل l-amthāla/the examples
29:43 الامثل l-amthālu/the examples
59:21  الامثل l-amthālu/the examples

these are different (no extra alif)

3:182 بظلم biẓul'min/in wrong/injustice 
4:153 بظلمهم biẓul'mihim/in wrong/injustice theirs
4:160 فبظلم fabiẓul'min/so in wrong/injustice
6:82  بظلم biẓul'min/in wrong/injustice
6:131 بظلم biẓul'min/in wrong/injustice
11:117 بظلم biẓul'min/in wrong/injustice
16:61 بظلمهم biẓul'mihim/in wrong/injustice theirs
22:25 بظلم biẓul'min/in wrong/injustice

(with extra alif)
8:51 ذلك such بما in what قدمت have set forth اىدىكم hands yours وان and that الله the god لىس not is بظلام biẓallāmin/in darkness للعبىد to the devotees?
22:10 ذلك such بما in what قدمت have set forth ىداك hands your وان and that الله the god لىس not is بظلام biẓallāmin/in darkness للعبىد to the devotees?
41:46 من who عمل work صلحا righteous of فلنفسه so for soul his/himself ومن and who اسا does evil فعلىها so against it وما and not ربك lord your بظلام biẓallāmin/in darkness للعبىد to the devotees?
50:29 ما not ىبدل changed القول the speech لدى with me وما and not انا I am بظلام biẓallāmin/in darkness للعبىد to the devotees?

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/182/handschrift/163



https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/51/handschrift/163


imrankhawaja

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #79 on: September 24, 2018, 09:42:19 AM »
Peace Imran.
I have  cited the verses for you. I have given you my take on it .
I have asked your take on it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

peace Gl

only problem is you never understand the questions.

even i asked here something else ?
i asked where is the evidence that God decided to write in such a way to hinting towards numbering ? did he personally told you or just ur wishfulthinking ?

if God claimed it he must claimed in clear cut way ? did U GET it what i am asking