Author Topic: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21  (Read 10492 times)

jkhan

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #350 on: October 03, 2018, 10:53:49 PM »
No debate with you two... somehow i am dragged with you two...God will....
i have explained it in this topic clearly ... i dont want to dig again...
look the identical verse 03:133 ... open your eyes... in this verse there is no "LIKE" as you claim..
even in the verse 57:21 Ka'ardi is not simile .... i don't need to convince you..
God bless you.. ::)

good logic

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #351 on: October 04, 2018, 02:24:49 AM »
Peace jkhan.
We are brothers discussing amicably.
Please accept my apology if I gave you any cause for concern .
As far as the shape of the earth is concerned, its irrelevant at GOD s. Nothing to do with guidance or lack of it.
The message we are both quoting from points to our deeds and character being the most important task to get right.
So please relax and enjoy yourself.
Peace brother.
GOD bless you.
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jkhan

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #352 on: October 04, 2018, 03:24:18 AM »
Brother Hawk….
This time it is not argument…Explanation to your request of “Simile”. You have been asking this for ages… I have replied but still you are asking… okay
All who are reading this topic.. Pls read verse 03:133 very carefully…… Does this verse has any simile or parable or allegory ? For me NO… hope for you also.. So what does this verse say? Doesn’t it say that the Garden promised is equal to the Earth and Heavens..?
The very similar verse is 57:21 and read this verse also very carefully.. Does this verse make you feel as a simile / parable / allegory? No way… (Ardhuha Ka’ardi) What is Ka’ardi (like the width).. what is the theme here in the verse ? it is the WIDTH… So God speak that in simple way THE WIDTH OF PROMISED GARDEN IS LIKE THE WIDTH OF EARTH AND HEAVEN.. No other topic only about width… it’s not simile/parable/allegory etc.
Take all Simile / parable / Allegory in entire quran.. there are many various types.. Nothing is matching with 57:21, coz 57:21 is not  simile / parable / allegory… it’s a direct verse.. that’s why God placed another same verse without Ka’ardi....
Notice below verse : what is theme here? Deeds.. what is simile? Mirage.. So deeds are depicted by using mirage..
24:39But those who disbelieved - their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allah before Him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account.

What is theme here? Moon … what is simile? Aged stalk of date
36:39 And the moon -- We have determined it by stations, till it returns like an aged palm-bough.
That’s it folks.. you decide…
God bless all

36:39-40 has some glaring proof about real moon.. I will explain to you all in due course..Key word for that is UNTIL IT RETURNS (Haththa aada)

tulipred-muslima

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #353 on: October 06, 2018, 03:38:07 PM »
i have already explained that the aya 57:21 does not discuss the actual width of the earth nor the heavens. the translation of the word عَرْضُهَا is translated as mathematical width in english. In arabic its used to mean 2 things exhibition or to present and mathematical width. in the case of this aya its almost a simile as the other user suggested. the word عَرْضُهَا in the aya suggests that we will see paradise as a pysical reality just as we see the our planet. understanding the root word of عَرْضُهَا helps clear this confusion. always remember the arabic language in the quran is precise according to the context of the subject discussed and not placed in vain.

hawk99

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #354 on: October 11, 2018, 03:52:26 PM »
i have already explained that the aya 57:21 does not discuss the actual width of the earth nor the heavens. the translation of the word عَرْضُهَا is translated as mathematical width in english. In arabic its used to mean 2 things exhibition or to present and mathematical width. in the case of this aya its almost a simile as the other user suggested. the word عَرْضُهَا in the aya suggests that we will see paradise as a pysical reality just as we see the our planet. understanding the root word of عَرْضُهَا helps clear this confusion. always remember the arabic language in the quran is precise according to the context of the subject discussed and not placed in vain.

quote: almost a simile

Puzzling but you lean towards my conclusion.

Here is brother Noon waalqalami's translation which I find acceptable:

57:21 سبقوا race ye of الى to مغفره forgiveness من from ربكم lord yours وجنه and garden عرضها width its كعرض like width السما the heaven/sky والارض and the land/earth اعدت prepared للذىن for the ones امنوا believes they of بالله in the god ورسله and messengers his ذلك such فضل bounty الله the god ىوتىه granted he من whom ىشا willed والله and the god ذو owner الفضل the bounty العظىم the major

Similes
use the words like or as to compare things—“Life is like a box of chocolates.”
In contrast, metaphors directly state a comparison—“Love is a battlefield.”

 :)  I hope no one thinks life is a box of chocolates

As you can see 57:21 is a simile.

Peace  jkhan let's not fight like cats and dogs   :)


The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

jkhan

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #355 on: October 13, 2018, 02:04:33 AM »
 Dear All,
My sole aim in this forum is to spread the truth of Quran in its own meaning...  I am well aware that it won't  be easy for anyone to change from one status to another when it comes to belief...  But still it is my duty to reveal what I have found in Quran to be true and what most people have taken as truth..
Knowing that majority always fall to the trap of Satan,  still persist with what I have to do to spread the truth..  I know someone will benefit..
Let me turn towards the topic..
I thought brother Hawk got only the Quranic pure meaning wrong with the help of Satan... But now I feel he got the English also wrong.. I am not an English professor. I didn't have my education in English but I have my own brain which God cultivated...
How pathetic he got the simile entirely foolishly.. He keeps repeating movie Forrest Gump dialogue of chocolate box... So funny.. That's the most funniest similes I have heard ever.. You know why it is called like that coz " you never know which one you gonna pick from the chocolate box"... 😉..good luck with chocolate.. Whatever.. Simile is defining entirely two different things while making comparison... Yes it is.. By using like or as.  While metaphor not.. It's direct but using entirely different word to the actual matter...
Now let's look 57:21 does this verse talk of entirely Two different  things...  What are those two different things?... Lol...
Dude Hawk....  Where did you graduated to say that when the word "Like" or "As" is used it will be only simile... Like can be prepositions too... Note... "the width of my house like the width of this house"...is it a simile?  What are the two different things here used to compare? Let's take more examples.. The color of the ball on your left hand like/as the color on your right hand...
Now let's see entirely different simile...  Let's take from QURAN itself.. Good Deeds are LIKE a good Tree....  Hmm they are entirely  two different things good deeds vs good tree...
The one who has read entire QURAN knows what kind of simile or metaphor of parables are used in Quran by God..
I don't need to fight with any human being as he claims... If one takes the argument  for truth is same as fighting then note below....
Mohamed came to a society in which different types/religious of people were living.. Those who were given scripture and not etc... When Mohamed argued with those who were given scriptures could have been always irritating coz they already believe in God and practicing what is commanded in the book.. How to believe in Mohamed?  It's so impossible...  But true believer wouldn't think that Mohamed is trying to divert them ...coz their faith deep rooted and it is not difficult for them to identify truth... For others Mohamed will look like fighting to convince  his new invention...  Truth is one and it has no second truth...
Unfortunately 3:133 is not even discussed by the one who claims that 57:21 is simile.. Coz he can't explain 3:133...
Words here I used nay be bit annoying but merely for the sake of argument.. Coz you are not the only one who is seeking guidance but all who enter to this topic and read... Among them some may be very very intelligent and totally surrendering to God and some may be intelligent and still moderate knowledge of Quran.. Etc etc
Finally 57:21 "like" is a preposition and not simile.. Coz nothing is compared there with entirely different things... It's same as we say.. The width of my hall like your hall, so we can accommodate the guests...or the size of my tab like/as the tab you are using... It's not simile but simple preposition..
He is like a machine... Simile (different items compared)
He is a Lion ... Metaphor (qualities of lion depicted for his character)
Don't destroy the meaning of 57:21 to these silly chocolate similes which u probably took from Google Search... 😉
Just look at the number of people who viewed this topic within a short period of time.. It's not coz of anyone in this forum.. But coz they all have concern about real truth.. It's coz God wants to reveal what is truth to whome He wills..
God guide us n bless us..

good logic

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #356 on: October 14, 2018, 02:41:52 AM »
Peace jkhan.
Please analyse what you say here, quote:

THE ABOVE VERSE INDICATES THAT THE PARADISE (JANNAH) HAS THE WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.. WHY GOD COMPARED THE TINY EARTH WITH HEAVEN. I DON'T KNOW SCIENCE IS PRECISE ON THE SIZE OF HEAVEN BUT, AS FAR AS WE KNOW IN OUR CURRENT KNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPTED MYTH THE HEAVEN(THE UNIVERSE IS NO WHERE NEAR TO THE SIZE OF EARTH) WHAT DOES THIS COMPARISON OF SIZE MEAN BY THIS VERSET? DOES THIS TRY TO SAY EARTH IS NOT TINY AS WE THINK? OR THE OUR BELIEF OF EARTH'S REAL SIZE IS WRONG? ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE WITH SCIENCE.. BUT THEN WHAT?

AND COMPARE THIS VERSE GOD SAYS HE CREATED UNIVERSE (TOTAL) IN SIX DAYS OUT OF THAT, IT TOOK TOTAL 2 DAYS TO CREATE EARTH.. IMAGINE THE SIZE OF UNIVERSE AND THE EARTH. WHY IT TOOK 2 DAYS COMPARED TO EVER EXPANDING UNIVERSE WHICH CONTAINS SUN MOON ALL PLANETS AND STARS ETC.. HMM EARTH IS HABITABLE AND WITH ALL RESOURCES SO IT TOOK 2 DAYS COMPARED TO WHOLE OF UNIVERSE? IS IT FAIR ENOUGH OR IS SOMETHING

Two very important issues arise:
1- Jannah is an allegory, we have no idea what it is  like  . So why are you assuming it cannot be the earth as we know it? Why should it be a bigger earth?
So even in your own understanding ,the width of Jannah could be the size of earth + Samawat, why not?

2- Actually it took 4 days to create living conditions on earth . i.e to create the climate ,atmosphere, the right conditions and regulate the oxygen CO2 (plants/vegetation's...Animals...etc i.e billions of years:
"Wa Kaddara Fiha Akwataha Fi Arbaati Ayyamin(4 DAYS) Sawaan Li Assailin"  ..For those who ask/research...

As you can see your idea of earth could be vast/bigger or as big as Samawat/heaven is baseless.
So whether you take the simile or your understanding this will have no bearing on the size of the earth as we perceive/know now.
Your point is not valid.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:” I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.”

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jkhan

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #357 on: October 14, 2018, 04:50:16 AM »
Oh... Dear dear.... What a baseless response.   Answer from a person who is dejected...  Self decide my argument is invalid...  I wish you are not a judge in real life...
Logic... Your answers almost similar to Hawk... I wonder you both are same... Don't worry  just guessing...
Quran's pure meaning cannot be twisted by your opinion... The one who is interested in extreme truth will always search and will be satisfied with what he knows... Whether I explain this topic or not people are now much concerned with the shape of the earth.. They have concern that they have been deceived... Unbelievable hike in Google Search for flat earth is evidence of it... And number of you tube videos... Why this Resurgence...
Hey buddy....  say it invalid or valid,  I will be bringing proof from Quran as long as God permits me... And let people  decide... I don't need anyone to come up here and say I believe you... It's not my aim or priority..
Hey... You are the one who asked the admin to block me or this topic at the very inception...  Right... Thanks God it didn't last..
My private messages really encouraging me to continue  this topic... Though I am working day by day for my livelihood and sustenance with much hardship.. . Honestly very limited time even to write something  here.. Or even in flat earth society or you tube.... Or fb... But still managing... Hey Logic.. Such challenges from people like you makes the truth more transparent.... You know why.. When the lie is around truth is manifested... The best example in my life is Hadith... If there were no hadith,  most probably I wouldn't have perceived quran in its true form.. God will otherwise..
Not only 57:21...i have brought  with the help of God, many a glaring proof that this world is not a globe in this entire topic according to Quran .. Unfortunately I didn't have full cooperation from anyone throughout,, though they come up with response to my email personally... I know why.. This is a very critical topic.. They don't like to get ashamed... Coz majority have accepted the world is round... But I am glad at least their innerself have accepted that the earth is flat... Going against majority is always embarrassing and tough... But I won't give up... 😉
If world is a globe then there is no way that I can argue against it.. But it is not a globe that's why I argue and point out from QURAN... Why should I talk against what God has created while He says in the creations of Heavens and Earth and whatever  between two of them is  SIGN for you... Oops do I need to reject the sign?   Pooh.. Did I get one sign and and people like globees got another sign?
Read Quran folks... God orders and insist to compare.. So do compare and verify...
God bless His Believers...

jkhan

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #358 on: October 14, 2018, 07:46:27 AM »
Hi everyone...
We have been taught and still being taught heliocentric system...  Who is this Helios..  He is Sun God.. And also Sun in Greek... Those who brought this whole system is to convince  their Sun worshipping... Unfortunately we are trapped... Anyway... Watch the video in the link... It really attracted me...
https://youtu.be/Xt0RW6qMbLw

good logic

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Re: WIDTH OF HEAVEN AND WIDTH OF EARTH.. ARE THEY EQUAL AS PER 57:21
« Reply #359 on: October 14, 2018, 12:05:58 PM »
Peace jkhan.
What you say about subjects do not worry me. But this is unjust, quote:

Hey... You are the one who asked the admin to block me or this topic at the very inception...  Right... Thanks God it didn't last..

This is a false accusation, I do not go behind people s back. If  I have any issue with them, I will say it to them in person not to others about them. Please bring your evidence .
I say it is a lie about me, please refrain from saying things about me that are not true.
I will be an hypocrite if I ever ,GOD forbid, did such a thing. I am 100% behind  the freedom of choice and the rights of people  whatever their views
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:” I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.”

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/