Author Topic: Understanding Al-salet  (Read 874 times)

makeaway8

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Understanding Al-salet
« on: March 18, 2018, 02:23:36 AM »
We begin with with this verse:
Take, from their wealth a charity by which you purify them and cause them increase, and [do al-salet] upon them. Indeed, your salet are reassurance for them. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.(9:103)

Do they not know that it is Allah who accepts repentance from His servants and receives charities and that it is Allah who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful? (9:104)
Take from them charity, Allah receives charities.
Do al-salet upon them, Allah accepts repentance.
Now let's see this verse:
And do not do salet on any of them who has died ever or stand at his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and died while they were defiantly disobedient. (9:84)

The first thing that to mind when one is standing on someone else's grave is asking for forgiveness for them.
Interestingly, we see in the same chapter named repentance that the prophet was asking for forgiveness for them.

Ask forgiveness for them, or do not ask forgiveness for them. If you should ask forgiveness for them seventy times -  never will Allah forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger, and Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people.(9:80)

We conclude that Al-salet is just the request of mercy.
To verify the previous claim we read these verses:
Our Lord, remove us from it, and if we were to return, we would indeed be wrongdoers.

He will say, "Remain despised therein and do not speak to Me.

Indeed, there was a party of My servants who said, 'Our Lord, we have believed, so forgive us and have mercy upon us, and You are the best of the merciful'.(23:107)

Except the companions of the right,
in gardens, questioning each other,
About the criminals, "What put you into Saqar?"They will say, "We were not of the those who do salat".(74:43)

huruf

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 02:57:24 AM »
interesting.

Salaam

IsaMuslim

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2018, 08:39:29 AM »
Bismillahi al-Rahmani al-Rahim.
Salaam.

I don't understand why do people interpret their own way a certain concept, without first collecting all the verses on a particular matter.
If you quote only the verses you selected, then Salat can appear to mean that.
But now you have to explain all the other verses, starting from:

5:6, where it says that before standing for Salat, we should wash our faces and hands to the elbows, then wipe our hair and our feet.
Do we have to observe ablutions before being merciful?

4:101, it says that when we are traveling we may shorten our Salat if we fear the Rejecters.
What does it mean to shorten our mercy?

4:102, it says that when we are LEADING a Salat, a group of us must STAND with us, and that after PROSTRATING, another group which has still not observed Salah may come forth.
What does it mean this verse if we replace Salat with mercy?

4:103, it says that on the Believers, the Salat is prescribed AT FIXED Times.
What does it mean to show mercy at fixed times?

Unless you bring us an ancient 1400 years old dictionary proving that some words have been changed during these years, then you cannot explain the verses above.

May Allah have mercy on us. May Allah guide us onto the Straight Path.
Is he who is based on proof from his Lord, as he for whom his evil works have been adorned for him and they followed their desires?
~ 47:14 ~

The Sardar

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2018, 09:39:46 AM »
Bismillahi al-Rahmani al-Rahim.
Salaam.

I don't understand why do people interpret their own way a certain concept, without first collecting all the verses on a particular matter.
If you quote only the verses you selected, then Salat can appear to mean that.
But now you have to explain all the other verses, starting from:

5:6, where it says that before standing for Salat, we should wash our faces and hands to the elbows, then wipe our hair and our feet.
Do we have to observe ablutions before being merciful?

4:101, it says that when we are traveling we may shorten our Salat if we fear the Rejecters.
What does it mean to shorten our mercy?

4:102, it says that when we are LEADING a Salat, a group of us must STAND with us, and that after PROSTRATING, another group which has still not observed Salah may come forth.
What does it mean this verse if we replace Salat with mercy?

4:103, it says that on the Believers, the Salat is prescribed AT FIXED Times.
What does it mean to show mercy at fixed times?

Unless you bring us an ancient 1400 years old dictionary proving that some words have been changed during these years, then you cannot explain the verses above.

May Allah have mercy on us. May Allah guide us onto the Straight Path.
Salam Brother IsaMuslim see these 2 videos by Quran Centric (Joseph Shaer) on his research on Salat
Salat in the Quran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ&t=576s
Quran Talk - The Middle Salat (2:238-239)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5cbvQyHcUY

makeaway8

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 01:51:11 AM »
Peace everyone,

IsaMuslim just replace al-salet with the request of mercy and the verses will speak for themselves.
I just add that Sujud/Prostrate in the verse you mentioned doesn't mean we should follow our parent's salet, it  means that Sujud is just voluntary/not obligatory act the prophet was doing at the end of salet when the believers prayed with him.

IsaMuslim

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 03:23:25 AM »
Peace be upon you both,
I have already seen some videos from Quran Centric or Sam Gerrans, but they both don't convince me.
The Salat is the best act of submission (Islam) to God, it's the moment when I forget whatever I was doing and I focus on reciting what God revealed to us and glorifying His Greatness, and making Dhikr and Du'a after that is even more relieving because I already know that He, in one way or another, will answer to my invocations with his signs.
I have no reason at all to refuse to put my face on the ground to the One who created me from a single drop of sperm and gave me of His Spirit (Ruh) so that I am conscious.

God bless you all.
Is he who is based on proof from his Lord, as he for whom his evil works have been adorned for him and they followed their desires?
~ 47:14 ~

HP_TECH

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 09:05:46 AM »
Peace be upon you both,
I have already seen some videos from Quran Centric or Sam Gerrans, but they both don't convince me.
The Salat is the best act of submission (Islam) to God, it's the moment when I forget whatever I was doing and I focus on reciting what God revealed to us and glorifying His Greatness, and making Dhikr and Du'a after that is even more relieving because I already know that He, in one way or another, will answer to my invocations with his signs.
I have no reason at all to refuse to put my face on the ground to the One who created me from a single drop of sperm and gave me of His Spirit (Ruh) so that I am conscious.

God bless you all.
Another MVP  :bravo:
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

The Sardar

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 10:00:18 AM »
Peace be upon you both,
I have already seen some videos from Quran Centric or Sam Gerrans, but they both don't convince me.
The Salat is the best act of submission (Islam) to God, it's the moment when I forget whatever I was doing and I focus on reciting what God revealed to us and glorifying His Greatness, and making Dhikr and Du'a after that is even more relieving because I already know that He, in one way or another, will answer to my invocations with his signs.
I have no reason at all to refuse to put my face on the ground to the One who created me from a single drop of sperm and gave me of His Spirit (Ruh) so that I am conscious.

God bless you all.
Salam/Peace dear brother. We never said anything about refusing putting face on the ground. Also see these as well by Wakas: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html http://www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/Summary-problems-sujud-prostration-Quran.html

And Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you too brother IsaMuslim.

hawk99

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2018, 11:17:30 AM »
What's the point in putting the face to the ground? Why does the deity wish this?

Peace Manny_E

There is a lot for you/us to learn about Islam, I would suggest you 
do your own research.



                                           :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

IsaMuslim

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Re: Understanding Al-salet
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 04:42:54 AM »
Another MVP  :bravo:

Salaam,
Do you think I know what you mean by "MVP"? I'm new to this forum, I don't know your slang of undervaluing others.
Don't you think that you're acting like the sectarian muslims?
"Of those who divided their religion, and became sects; each faction pleased with what they have." (Quran 30:32)
May God have mercy on you and guide you.

Salam/Peace dear brother. We never said anything about refusing putting face on the ground. Also see these as well by Wakas: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html http://www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/Summary-problems-sujud-prostration-Quran.html

And Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you too brother IsaMuslim.
Salaam brother,
I understand both articles, and I agree with most of them. Still, I believe the Salat is physical.
My understanding of "to prostrate" is "to humble oneself to someone", and this is of course clear in the Quran, as your friend's article points out.
Angels have their own way of prostrating, Jinns have their own way of prostrating, the shadow of things have their own way of prostrating, the planets, sun and moon have their own way of prostrating.
The prostration of the angels is unknown to us.
The prostration of the sun and all the celestial bodies is to orbit.
The prostration of the animals is to follow their instinct.
The prostration of the shadows is to be shadows.

Our prostration is to obey God's will, to be humble to Him.
At this point, we completely agree, but consider this problem:
If during Salat, prostration is not a single-time act, but it is the entire act of worship (i.e. Salat made only of reciting; the article says this regarding verse 4:102), then it means that when it is finished we are not anymore "being humble" to Him.
Instead, the Muttaqeen (God-conscious) are ALWAYS symbolically prostrating (SJD) during their entire life, and they also physically prostrate at the end of the Salat.

We have a physical body; with its language we express our feelings towards others and towards ourselves.
That's why I believe the Salat is intended to be a physical act, and it should be done physically; but for example, when I am outside and I have to pray, I simply sit on a bench or somewhere and recite, and when it's the time that I normally prostrate or bow down, I just lower my head as if I was prostrating literally, knowing that there is no fault on me if I don't prostrate or bow completely.
God is not in need of our physical prostration, BUT our mind benefits from it!
So I glorify my Lord and I put my head to the ground. :hail

What's the point in putting the face to the ground? Why does the deity wish this?
Salaam,
He isn't in need of our worship, it's us who benefit from it.
Is he who is based on proof from his Lord, as he for whom his evil works have been adorned for him and they followed their desires?
~ 47:14 ~