Author Topic: 9 and 19  (Read 10622 times)

Noon waalqalami

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 01:28:01 PM »
Do you think that the scribes made the division of the Quranic text to obtain this?
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9666.msg196954#msg196954

Peace ibn_a -- Eid was ignorant then and is now right in the head.

There are infinity of combinations that produce that same pattern.
e.g. remove/add any 2,4, etc. to infinity verses from ch 2, 4, 9, ...
                                                         
- I believe that the Qur'an we have  today is preserved by God, if not then what are this verses about?

----

15:9   Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

Yes recitation, text is mnemonic to aid memory not verse numbers added by scribes as reference and checksum.

I looked into some of these manuscripts ( incomplete ) and found some differences between them in the the division of the Quranic text and some words :

example:

chapter 10

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163

110 verses (in this manuscript)

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460

109 verses (in this manuscript)

Please be considerate and check before posting and please one question at a time.

10:101 should follow end 10 verses marker not 10:100 hence 1+ 110 and not 109.

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/101?handschrift=163



Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/109/handschrift/163




good logic

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 01:58:18 PM »
Peace Noon.
You know my problem don t you?
Have you got the Qoran written by the prophet himself(with proof), then show me the word Jamiu has not  got Alif,otherwise you are wasting your time.
GOD has foreseen this problem of how one can prove it is the original copy and preserved His words mathematically.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

Noon waalqalami

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2018, 06:39:22 PM »
Peace Noon.
You know my problem don t you?
Have you got the Qoran written by the prophet himself(with proof), then show me the word Jamiu has not  got Alif,otherwise you are wasting your time.
GOD has foreseen this problem of how one can prove it is the original copy and preserved His words mathematically.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace good logic, yes we all know your problem/s?

You refuse 2 verses since they contain the word الله
You refuse 68 جمع in all Qurans and want to add alif
You refuse 68th chapter as ن noon looking for ن و ن 

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=170

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=878

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=56

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=481

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=163



good logic

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 12:04:29 AM »
Yes brother Noon.
I know I have many problems but this is not one of them:
You refuse 68th chapter as ن noon looking for ن و ن 

Why? But who can spell better than this:
وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Za-Noon ,Jonah, "the one with an `N' in his name" ن و ن 
- Your name sake! Check your mushaf-?
Anyway we had all these conversations before. Is your mathematics still the same?-Random and boring?-
Mine is an amazing miracle.
As usual you say "So what?" . I say "Wow!".
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

The Sardar

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2018, 05:56:33 AM »
Yes brother Noon.
I know I have many problems but this is not one of them:
You refuse 68th chapter as ن noon looking for ن و ن 

Why? But who can spell better than this:
وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Za-Noon ,Jonah, "the one with an `N' in his name" ن و ن 
- Your name sake! Check your mushaf-?
Anyway we had all these conversations before. Is your mathematics still the same?-Random and boring?-
Mine is an amazing miracle.
As usual you say "So what?" . I say "Wow!".
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Mushaf? What is that?

good logic

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 07:03:55 AM »
Brother the Sardar, a mushaf is a whole written Qoran. It can be warsh or hafs or an old manuscript or ...
Brother Noon has examples of different mushafs that are old in his posts.

I wonder what happened to the original copy that was written by the scribes during the prophet s era? Or is this an assumption? If it was found how can one prove it?  How does GOD preserve that original copy? etc...

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

The Sardar

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 07:49:59 AM »
Brother the Sardar, a mushaf is a whole written Qoran. It can be warsh or hafs or an old manuscript or ...
Brother Noon has examples of different mushafs that are old in his posts.

I wonder what happened to the original copy that was written by the scribes during the prophet s era? Or is this an assumption? If it was found how can one prove it?  How does GOD preserve that original copy? etc...

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Salam see this verses:

85:21 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'?nun maj?dun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.
85:22 فى لوح محفوظ
F? lawHin maHf?Zin
In a tablet, preserved.

good logic

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 08:19:44 AM »
Peace The Sardar.
Exactly.  What is "Lawhun Mahfood" and how is it "Mahfood"? That is the question?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

ibn_a

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 08:27:37 AM »
Salaam Noon waalqalami,




There are infinity of combinations that produce that same pattern.
e.g. remove/add any 2,4, etc. to infinity verses from ch 2, 4, 9, ...
                                                         


I know that it is not impossible to remove/add verses in an orderly way so that the pattern will stay as it is.
But the more complicated the pattern, the more difficult to make changes in it, or to happen by coincidence.

We have also to consider that which is presented today as some of the numerical structure of the Qur'an,  might be a small part of that what is present in the Qur'an.

Symmetry sum chapters - verses  and even-odd  is maybe only a part of a more complicated pattern.

Not everyone is an expert in math,
so to make the pattern accessible to almost everone it has to contain a simple pattern
so that it is recognizable for most people and a more complicated one(s ) for more knowledgeable people and  experts who challenges the pattern.

note:
The pattern published by member Eid  was discovered by Abdullah Jalghoum.





                                                         
Yes recitation, text is mnemonic to aid memory not verse numbers added by scribes as reference and checksum.

Please be considerate and check before posting and please one question at a time.

10:101 should follow end 10 verses marker not 10:100 hence 1+ 110 and not 109.

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/101?handschrift=163



Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/109/handschrift/163




  I know that in this manuscript  chapter 10 has 110 verses

    https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163


                                                         ********************


   But in this manuscript  chapter 10 has 109 verses.

   https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460

   This is written at the beginning of  chapter 10:
 

  ٮوٮس     ماٮه     و    تسع      اٮٮ       

  younus     mi-ata     wa       tisaa       ayat

  younus   hundred    and      nine       verses.


The Sardar

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Re: 9 and 19
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 09:18:42 AM »
Peace The Sardar.
Exactly.  What is "Lawhun Mahfood" and how is it "Mahfood"? That is the question?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Salam i have checked the root word of these words, see here:

Lam-Waw-Ha (ل و ح) = To change colour, become visible, gleam/shine, light up, scorching one, broad table or plate, tablet.
lawh n.m. (pl. alwah) 7:145, 7:150, 7:154, 54:13, sing. 85:22
lawwah n.m. adj. 74:29
LL, V7, p: 207, 208  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=lwH


Ha-Fa-Za (ح ف ظ) = To preserve/guard/protect a thing, take care of a thing, prevent a thing from perishing, to be careful/mindful/regardful/attentive/considerate concerning a thing, to keep a thing, put in store, retain a thing, learn a thing by heart (commit to memory), to remember, to defend, keep a thing from getting lost, to be observant or watchful, apply oneself/assiduously/constantly/perseveringly, vigilant or heedful, to anger a person or be angered.

hafiza vb. (1)
perf. act. 4:34, 15:17
impf. act. 12:65, 13:11, 24:30, 24:31
impv. 5:89
n.vb. 2:255, 37:7, 41:12
pcple. act. 4:34, 9:112, 12:12, 12:63, 12:64, 12:81, 15:9, 21:82, 23:5, 33:35, 33:35, 70:29, 82:10, 83:33, 86:4
pcple. pass. 21:32, 85:22

hafazah n.m. (pl. of hafiz) 6:61

hafiz n.m. 4:80, 6:104, 6:107, 11:57, 11:86, 12:55, 34:21, 42:6, 42:48, 50:4, 50:32

hafaza vb. (3)
impf. act. 6:92, 23:9, 70:34
impv. 2:238

istahfaza vb. (10) perf. pass. 5:44

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page: 237, 238, 239  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7fZ