Author Topic: Earliest Hadith Collections Found: Not So Fast!  (Read 1328 times)

reel

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Earliest Hadith Collections Found: Not So Fast!
« on: January 30, 2018, 06:52:25 PM »
I am not sure why sectarians think saying "we have earliest collections of hadiths" legitimizes what they follow. Quran clearly talks about how rumors were being scattered by people in the name of Prophet. Plus, it is a fact that lies generated by the elite were already part of school courses. Khalifs knew very well that they were LIES!

Anyways, the scholars say Sahifa Of Hammam bin Munabbih is the oldest hadith collection. Link: http://darulilm.forumotion.com/t31-early-hadeeth-collections-refuting-hadith-rejectors


Here is the actual  nature of those hadiths:


Quote
The work we know as ?the Sahīfah of Hammām bin Munabbih? is a collection of around 140 hadīths. It begins with a chain of transmission from the Prophet through Abū Hurayrah, Hammām, Ma?mar, and ?Abd al-Razzāq. The idea that Hammām or even Abū Hurayrah authored the text has persisted, despite its having nothing in particular to recommend it; in fact the author is probably ?Abd al-Razzāq (d. 827): it?s after his name that chains of transmission start to diverge, and the text has a markedly classical form that shouldn?t belong to an earlier date.

The text was popularised by his student Ibn Hanbal (d. 855), who partially reproduced it in the Musnad. Michael Cook observes that, judging by its presentation in the Musnad, the Sahīfah was already considered a discrete collection. The next generation of compilers, who preferred to arrange hadīths thematically, broke it up and redistributed the hadīths in their own works; but it?s clear that the Sahīfah, as a collection in its own right, has been floating around since the early ninth century.

It?s sometimes billed as the oldest extant hadīth collection. That does not mean that our surviving manuscripts are the earliest to contain hadīths ? the current scholarly edition by Hamidullah is based on manuscripts from the twelfth century and later ?; it means that the text itself, preserved in later volumes, may represent the earliest collection.

Between variants of the Sahīfah, differences in wording are few and trifling. However, as Marston Speight has shown, there are many and significant differences between the hadīths in the Sahīfah and variants of the same hadīths transmitted elsewhere. This is what we?d expect. The ninth-century turn to writing and publication ?fixed? a body of oral tradition that was previously fluid and adaptive: quite different accounts of the same story could then be preserved in parallel.

The point is that the Sahīfah was rigorously transmitted once it had been written, but it was only written in the ninth century.

More disturbing is the analysis by Juynboll. He notes that Hammām, the second transmitter of the hadīths, is said to have died in 719 and in 749-50. It?s a huge inconsistency, forcing the question of how much the later biographers really knew about these early figures; but the more immediate problem is chronological. His teacher, Abū Hurayrah, died in the late 670s; his student, Ma?mar, was born in 714. Either he was exceptionally long-lived ? though nobody thought it worth mentioning ? or, more likely, he?s been drafted into a chain of transmission in order to endorse the Sahīfah.

Juynboll?s other objection requires an understanding of his own, very difficult, theory of hadīth transmission. His key insight is that a link in the chain of transmission can be confirmed only if several iterations of the same hadīth branch away from it. If Hammām and Ma?mar were indeed respectable teachers, they should have distributed their hadīths to many students; but only ?Abd al-Razzāq transmits these hadīths and claims a chain of transmission through those masters.

His conclusion, sensible but not decisive, is that ?Abd al-Razzāq brought many hadīths into circulation by attaching them to a prestigious chain of transmission. In other words, the Sahīfah may contain much that is new; or at least new within the bounds of hadīth scholarship.

Do not think of ?Abd al-Razzāq as some compulsive liar or finger-tenting villain. Bending the truth is altogether human, especially when serving a higher ?truth?. If ?Abd al-Razzāq believed that his hadīths were historical, or that they promoted better practice, then it was his duty to pass them on to the scholarly mainstream.

It would appear that ?the Sahīfah of Hammām? is more properly the Sahīfah of ?Abd al-Razzāq, and a thoroughly ninth-century work. Religion is a dialogue between creativity and conservatism; the early hadīth tradition expresses this beautifully.
http://www.iandavidmorris.com/how-early-is-the-sahifah-of-hammam/




"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

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Re: Earliest Hadith Collections Found: Not So Fast!
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2018, 01:37:35 AM »
Here is a post from ourbeacon.com

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: Saheefah Hammam ibn Munabbih - Hafiz Azhar A. Syed

Hafiz Azhar A. Syed

[Saheefah means Scroll.]

Saheefah Hammam ibn Munabbih is supposedly the earliest known collection of Ahadith compiled by the 8th century scholar Hammam ibn Munabbih. No one knew its whereabouts until the 20th century!

Strangely, Dr Muhammad Hameedullah of India/France suddenly came up with its published ?translation? in English in 1994. Muhammad Hameedullah of Deccan, India (1908-2002) spent 50 years in France after the fall of Deccan to India in 1948 and exiled himself to France. He moved to the USA in 1998 and lived with his brother's great grand-daughter until his death in 2002.

In his death confessions he admitted that he was the chief instrument in fabricating the said Saheefah.

Mullah Ikhwan Sarhadi Afindi applauds Hameedullah's great ?discovery? (in Paris) as the earliest work of Hadith. He says, ?The Saheefah Hammam ibn Munabbih was prepared by Hazrat Abu Hurairah for his pupil Hammam ibn Munabbih. Abu-Hurairah died in 58 A.H./677, Hammam ibn Munabbih died in 101 A.H./719.?

It consists of 138 Ahadith that can also be found in Sahih Bukhari with the same content and chain of narrators.

I visited Hameedullah in Nov 2002 along with some friends to check on his health. During the visit, he asked us to pray for his forgiveness. Haeedullah said that he had done the forgery in good faith and only when he was losing his faculties due to senility. He admitted plagiarizing from the SAHAH SITTAH.

His intentions? "To provide some credibility to the Hadith literature that is being challenged by some Quranic voices."

Where was the Arabic original discovered? ?In the basement of my house in Paris.?

Sir, where is the original Arabic scroll? He answered, "I don't know why I burned it."

Why did it remain hidden for 12 centuries and how did it end up in Paris? Why wasn't it translated by anyone before? Why didn't anyone hear about it or mention it at all through these centuries? Think and reflect!

Now the English 'Saheefah' is very much there and Mullahs are using it to mislead people.

-Hafiz Azhar A. Syed, Alabama

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Re: Earliest Hadith Collections Found: Not So Fast!
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2018, 01:41:36 AM »
Dr Shabbir translated 

Hammam ibn Munabbih = Bathroom s/o a ringing bell

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Re: Earliest Hadith Collections Found: Not So Fast!
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2018, 01:44:26 AM »
This was discussed in this post on this forum

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16523.0

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Re: Earliest Hadith Collections Found: Not So Fast!
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2018, 05:27:00 AM »
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.