Author Topic: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell  (Read 3598 times)

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 12:35:07 AM »
مَّثَلُ ٱلۡجَنَّةِ ٱلَّتِى وُعِدَ ٱلۡمُتَّقُونَ‌ۖ تَجۡرِى مِن تَحۡتِہَا ٱلۡأَنۡہَـٰرُ‌ۖ أُڪُلُهَا دَآٮِٕمٌ۬ وَظِلُّهَا‌ۚ تِلۡكَ عُقۡبَى ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّقَواْ‌ۖ وَّعُقۡبَى ٱلۡكَـٰفِرِينَ ٱلنَّارُ

The example of Paradise, which the righteous have been promised, is [that] beneath it rivers flow. Its fruit is lasting, and its shade. That is the consequence for the righteous, and the consequence for the disbelievers is the Fire.

مَّثَلُ ٱلۡجَنَّةِ ٱلَّتِى وُعِدَ ٱلۡمُتَّقُونَ‌ۖ فِيہَآ أَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّن مَّآءٍ غَيۡرِ ءَاسِنٍ۬ وَأَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّن لَّبَنٍ۬ لَّمۡ يَتَغَيَّرۡ طَعۡمُهُ ۥ وَأَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّنۡ خَمۡرٍ۬ لَّذَّةٍ۬ لِّلشَّـٰرِبِينَ وَأَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّنۡ عَسَلٍ۬ مُّصَفًّ۬ى‌ۖ وَلَهُمۡ فِيہَا مِن كُلِّ ٱلثَّمَرَٲتِ وَمَغۡفِرَةٌ۬ مِّن رَّبِّہِمۡ‌ۖ كَمَنۡ هُوَ خَـٰلِدٌ۬ فِى ٱلنَّارِ وَسُقُواْ مَآءً حَمِيمً۬ا فَقَطَّعَ أَمۡعَآءَهُمۡ (١٥

Is the example of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all [kinds of] fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like [that of] those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?

huruf

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 12:57:18 AM »
What has "progressive thought" (whatever is meant by that, because thought is not progressive or regressive but sound or unsound) to do with eternity?

ONLY GOD is eternal. And I insist that people ban dy this idea "eternal" as if they knew rally what it is. We do not know3 zilch t5o adscribe that meaning to what God Says.

God says that the wicked used to say they will only bre in the fire a few days, God mocks them.
Why does God mock them. I can think of two reasons:

1. They do not have a blooming idea of hell or what it may last
2. A "few days" of hell would be more thna plenty for any sensible person. One can only disdain the cruellest suffering when one does not have a blooming idea of what the cruellest suffering entails. If they knew they would give up all their life to avoid it.

Destiny ends in God. There is no destiny after that qiyaam is nto the end of destiny, nor hell nor paradise is. The destiny is God. wa ilaihe al maSir. This eternal hell and paradise is a recooking of catholic thought for muslims, just as so many things pushed into islam by partial believers. We consume catholic and biblical thought and put on it label "islam".

And God is Just, Al 3adl, were he to create an eternal hell for people, He would not be Just.  Both things cannot go together, eternal hell and justice.

Salaam 

huruf

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 01:05:18 AM »
Won't that make hell a God?


Indeed


There are things human thought cannot solve. May be human hearts can, beause of love of God and nearness to Him, but human thought can't, just as a blind person by birth cannot conceive colors. How can we know something we cannot even conceive? All we can do is play at having ingenious thoughts. That is play. that is not knowledge. We, most people, I think, know what suffering is, some much better than others and we might, from there get some idea, but eternity...

May God have Mercy on His creation.

Salaam


huruf

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2017, 04:06:15 AM »
Regarding what some posters have put forward, <i think Edip Yuksel and others, in the sense that those in hell at some point are simply anihilated, it brings me to mind the belief of Ancient Egyptians that those that were most heinous transgessors, cruel criminals, and similar, that is wht happenned to them after death, there wa sno life for them, they were terminated for good. It seems that that was the worst conceivable thing that could happen to anybody. I guess they had not yet improved their conception of punishment to the "delicacy" of eternal hell.

Salaam

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2017, 06:34:17 PM »
Regarding what some posters have put forward, <i think Edip Yuksel and others, in the sense that those in hell at some point are simply anihilated, it brings me to mind the belief of Ancient Egyptians that those that were most heinous transgessors, cruel criminals, and similar, that is wht happenned to them after death, there wa sno life for them, they were terminated for good. It seems that that was the worst conceivable thing that could happen to anybody. I guess they had not yet improved their conception of punishment to the "delicacy" of eternal hell.

Salaam

Are Jannat and Hell physical places? Or in the next life they represent condition of
- bliss for those who could give ZAKA to their nafoos or
- regret for those who could not give ZAKA to their nafoos.

Salaam

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2017, 12:37:15 AM »
Salam alaykum.


I think this is an excellent article on this matter:

http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

huruf

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2017, 01:13:35 AM »
Salam alaykum.


I think this is an excellent article on this matter:

http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

It is a good, thorough article, indeed.

Salaam

huruf

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2017, 01:22:14 AM »
Are Jannat and Hell physical places? Or in the next life they represent condition of
- bliss for those who could give ZAKA to their nafoos or
- regret for those who could not give ZAKA to their nafoos.

Salaam

If I have not got it wrong, there are degrees in the jannat as it could not be otherwise, because although starting from a good for all, there must also be justice, and the better ones get also better rewards, which is logical if we see tht what we get is what we have worked for, that is the after life is the fruit of the tree we have planted in this life.

Salaam

As to physical, I do not see why it should not be, and also what is the difference between non physical and physical, is there such a chasm between them? or is it simply that we are constrained in our present three dimensions, and cannot even feel a fourth, or fifth?

The Qur'an says that in janna we will recognize what we had in previous life, so there is a continuation.

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Re: I find it hard to believe in eternal unbearable hell
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2017, 04:13:01 PM »

As to physical, I do not see why it should not be, and also what is the difference between non physical and physical, is there such a chasm between them? or is it simply that we are constrained in our present three dimensions, and cannot even feel a fourth, or fifth?

Salaam

Thats what I meant to say that it might be a different realm/dimension and not these three dimensions.

The Qur'an says that in janna we will recognize what we had in previous life, so there is a continuation.

2:25
وَبَشِّرِ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ أَنَّ لَهُمۡ جَنَّـٰتٍ۬ تَجۡرِى مِن تَحۡتِهَا ٱلۡأَنۡهَـٰرُ‌ۖ ڪُلَّمَا رُزِقُواْ مِنۡہَا مِن ثَمَرَةٍ۬ رِّزۡقً۬ا‌ۙ قَالُواْ هَـٰذَا ٱلَّذِى رُزِقۡنَا مِن قَبۡلُ‌ۖ وَأُتُواْ بِهِۦ مُتَشَـٰبِهً۬ا‌ۖ وَلَهُمۡ فِيهَآ أَزۡوَٲجٌ۬ مُّطَهَّرَةٌ۬‌ۖ وَهُمۡ فِيهَا خَـٰلِدُونَ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.

As per above ayat whatever would be provided in Jannah, would be MUTSHABIHA and not what is provided here. So there is continuity of provisions but not the same things. We would be provided as per our needs in that realm. I assume that we cannot understand or perceive next life and its provisions in this life.