Author Topic: Jerusalem  (Read 8114 times)

Zulf

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2018, 01:25:02 PM »
There is no God is the very foundation of the original Islam which removed worship, superstitions, hierarchical structures of control and established alternatives that functioned free of corruption and free of riba, which almost no one now has been exposed to.
If 'there is no God', then is there a Creator (of course not a person in the skies)? Is there a Rabb who is sustaining Creation each instant?
What's your take on this?

Quote
What does exist is far more than the nonsensical god concept taken from the Sun which was worshiped in the heavens, but most god bother'ers don't care about evidence, reason, or truth, they want fantasy and not to think, just to follow ritual, be pious (hypocritical) and to worship, worship, worship!

Agreed.
We know what we know. The rest we don't know. That which we don't know, most people believe. It's better to just not know.
If you name me, you negate me.

Abdun Nur

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2018, 11:29:46 PM »
Peace Zulf,

Imagine a infinite pure consciousness pouring from nothingness endlessly, within a singular, infinitely repeating, spinning moment, without any substance, no material existence of any kind, no quantity of space or energy; not an entity because only the consciousness exists, and to be an entity would require something other, something distinct from something else, so consciousness is always an ?entirety?.

The only product of this single consciousness of potential is thought, manifesting infinite perceptual realities, so vast, so dense in thought, so magnificent we cannot begin to conceive such wonders at our present lower fractal states. But the totality would not fully experience the infinite thoughts intimately without its fractal nature.

Fractal consciousness allows each fractal, free will, they can evolve from new state to new higher fractal state, and have the same attributes, the same aspects as the entirety of consciousness, because they are the entirety, being an infinite drop within the infinite ocean of consciousness, indivisible, so cannot be distinct, always only the one consciousness can exist, the fractal is the undivided, an integral fractal form, building the substantive structures.

What each fractal form develops becomes the most abundant within their individual expression of consciousness; they can build imagination or neglect it. We as fractals of consciousness are here to experience, and through our experiences, the totality of the ocean of consciousness experiences, shares, interacts and is synchronous to our actions; we are created for adventure, for the expression of love and joy, because there is no ?other? of consequence, to hate, to abuse, to exploit, we are ?one? infinitely expressed. We?re one mind as dichotomic thought both as one in nothingness of inner contemplation, and as one in shared thought of external perception.

This means no God could ever exist, it is impossible, you cannot worship or pray or indulge in rituals of any benefit at all in fact these are all detrimental to growth.

Peace owlwithbow,

I have pasted Badar Kanwar's work on the term "Allah":

We are lead through, with a careful linguistic analysis, to a conclusion that the word from Al-Qu'ran  اللَّهِ   is not the proper noun.  To understanding any word one needs to analyze the spelling of a given word.  Since Quran has been initially an oral tradition one needs to pay attention to phonology of word, in addition to its written spelling.  If we do this with word Allah.  It actually stands for allathe الذي = who, La لا = not and finally, alahun  ألْهٌ.  This would mean ?One who is not alahun?.


If one were to incorporate the real meanings of the word ?alahun? into the translation; this word, which actually is a sentence would mean ?One who doesn?t engage in worship?.

This sounds so radically different. Who am I to say this?  What are my credentials?

Why should we trust this non-sense?


These are all defensive of held belief, so valid and legitimate questions.

 
Let us instead of worrying about the credentials of the informer of this information; just explore the language of the Qur'an that is presented from the Qur'an itself.

 

First of all let us analyze what traditionalists interpret this word to be?



And why they are wrong?

 

The word is thought to be a combination of a definite article Al ال = in English ?The? and illaha إلاه, meaning ?God? but in reality ?a deity for adoration and worship?.

 

Although, in actuality this "Al" here is a contraction of the word الذي   and legitimately could be written as "Al"  ال.  Can we trust this assertion despite clear references from the Lexicon of Lane 1 and Grammar of William Wright 2.

 

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for more evidence.  In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word beginning with a definite article ?Al?  ال. Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition.   Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

 

1.     2:1  لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ  Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.



2..     4:7 and 4:32,  لِّلرِّجَالِ   is the word same concept.

 
However, for the word اللَّهِ  when the same preposition is added.  We find that the ?Lam? of the supposed definite article ?Al? also disappears. However, following the examples above it should have been written as لِلْاله  (in reality one cannot type this so called word using an Arabic type writer).


Example,  1:2 لِلَّهِ  and 115 more places 2:22, 2:98 and on and on, in total 116 occurrences.

Whereas, allathe being a different word its whole contraction disappears.  This also proves that this word by no means is a proper name as there is no definite article "Al". As if there would have been an "Al", it should look like this in script  ألإلاه and not اللَّهِ

Furthermore, although both Lane and Wright cite the contraction of  الذي  as ال. Can we find an example in the current translation of Quran for such a contraction?   Of course, we can, not one time, but multiple times.

6:77   فَلَمَّا رَأَى الْقَمَرَ بَازِغًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لَئِن لَّمْ يَهْدِنِي رَبِّي لَأَكُونَنَّ مِنَ
الْقَوْمِ الضَّالِّينَ   
Yousuf Ali: When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."

7:99   أَفَأَمِنُواْ مَكْرَ اللّهِ فَلاَ يَأْمَنُ مَكْرَ اللّهِ إِلاَّ
الْقَوْمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ

Yousuf Ali: Did they then feel secure against the plan of Allah?- but no one can feel secure from the Plan of Allah, except those (doomed) to ruin!

Other examples are at 62 different places, 5:26, 25, 5:67.  Any place word الْقَوْمُ   is used, it is at most places translated in meaning of "allathe".

Badar Kanwar, [30.11.17 22:33]
Let us, continue to analyses this word further.  In the middle there is "alif" like mark (highlighted in red) with a Shadda mark and another alif above. اللَّه (In newer, print version the "alif" above Shadda is taken a fathah shape instead of 'alif" like in this example as well.  The ?alif? above Shadda, is called a ?dagger alif? and is written over many other words instead being included in these words in the text of Quran.  Since here it is written over Shadda, implying there are two ?alifs?.

 

Shadda has several uses in script.  We will only discuss the relevant ones here.  One use is to indicate the doubling of a consonant.  It is also used to indicate such a doubling only to facilitate pronunciation in the ?Sun letters of the Arabic alphabets?.  This would be a apparently plausible defensive case for the traditionalist.

Let us analysis why it is wrong.  If it were to be correctly understood, then there would be no reason to keep this Shadda in place once the ?Al?, if it were really ?Al? of definite article.  As in the phrase is gone اللَّهِ, as in the example above of لِلَّهِ.  However, we find in the Qur'an that this is not the case.  Hence, this Shadda is not due to ?Al? of a definite article coming before the اله word to make it a proper noun, but contraction of allathe.  Although, even if it were to be the case, as illah has already ?alif? at the start which is not considered a ?Sun letter?.  Hence no Shadda would be have been added as cited above.

Let us, further show in Arabic script, how this concept could be explained?  First, all three words are  written separately, then allathe written as contracted and finally first to ?lams? and subsequent ?alif? combined,  due use of Shadda, to make Allah.

ألذَّي لا ألْهٌ   
ال لا ألْهٌ =  اللَّه


This clearly, further shows that the persistence of this Shadda is due, not to the Shadda of ?Al?; but in reality it indicates a real doubling of the consonants.

 

This means inescapably, that one was to follow the order of pronunciation of, this word.  It actually is a sequence of words, a phrase, not just a word.  Allathe (written as a contraction in script as "Al"), La and alahun.  This would further imply that the middle Shadda is suggesting ?two lams? and two alifs?.

 

Hence, if translated word for word, this word or more accurately sentence would mean ?One who doesn?t engage in worship?.

1.   Lexicon of Arabic Language; Edward W Lane; 1968, Vol. 1, page 74.
2.   A Grammar of the Arabic Language; William Wright. Revised 3RD Edition, Dover Edition 2005:  Vol. 1 page 269 D.

عوني

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2018, 02:05:24 AM »
peace ,

BOLD u reallly made me happy saying thanks in urdu here you go free hug  :group:

yeh brother i m afraid he will become the reason of big war if it take place in near future(God knows best)

he started his sickness by banning 7 islamic countries
he continue to provoke north korea ( and try to play politics to finish common enemy china and japan through korea or whatever)
he support saudia and continue spreading TRANSGRESSION between a historical rivaly between sunni vs shia i.e saudia vs iran
he also taking piss with russia indirectly ( and russina never forget the cold war ) i think its time for them to take revenge from america..

its true that nations never forget their defeat and the islamic so called caliphate in the shape "saltant e usmania" in the shape of turkey  will give us more surprises in near future as they already played their role in both world wars

God bless humanity


:handshake: True.

I find Urdu to be an awesome language that has a lot in common with Arabic. 8) I do know some words and I'm going to learn more of the language in the future. I find Pakistan to be a very interesting and beautiful country too and I'd like to visit it one day, I loved its response in the UN regarding Jerusalem too. Despite the cowardly US empty threats against Pakistan, Pakistan will always support the Palestinians. In my old posts I've been very ignorant about Pakistan and the other South-Asian countries and their people and it was wrong on so many levels and shameful. Pakistan is an amazing country and Desi culture is very interesting and lovely. What Palestinians go through everyday is what Kashmiris go through and the struggle is very similar if not the same.

I agree with you on Trump. The Muslim world needs someone that will stand up against Trump. I found it very shameful when I read that Saudi-Arabia gave Trump millions dollars worth of gifts but it's not suprising since the Saudi regime and Trump are very good friends and share similarities and Trump helps them get away with their war crimes in Yemen.

I was watching the stream when the countries were voting in the UN and it was really disturbing listening to the American ambassador (Nikki Haley) and the Israeli ambassador since they both appeared like total hypocrites, although sadly no one called them out on it but it looked like everyone wanted to just sleep whenever they were talking. The Israeli ambassador only kept bashing Palestinians in the UN and showing off an old coin thinking it was a really good argument. But the funny thing is despite the US empty threats of cutting aid-money, most countries still opposed the US decision on Jerusalem.


Peace,

before Trump was the puppet face of the corporation united States of America, he was in bed with the Khazarian mafia, this organisation is a global Ashkenazi network that in many ways controls the planet, these soulless (jinn) have caused no end of horror, suffering, misery and death, they should be hunted to extinction, and if they tell the stinking Trump and his den of soulless minions to do something, it is done.

I disagree with this post and it seems to be a conspiracy theory. The truth about the Ashkenazi Jews is that some Ashkenazi Jews do belong in that land yes but it's really irrelevant if they did anyway. It doesn't matter where you originate from. The reason why Trump supports Israel could have to do with a lot of reasons but I don't think that it's because he is in bed with the "Khazarian mafia". One of the reasons could be because his daughter is in a relationship with a pro-Israel Jew (which is why she converted to Judaism) that might influence his decision as a father in politics. Another reason is that Israel has traditionally been an ally of the US while most of its neighbours became friends with the Soviet and since he's pretty much an American nationalist (and a warmongerer) he will support Israel. He also hates Muslims as proven by his actions towards the Muslim countries and his ban that targets Muslim countries only.   



Hitler tried to but instead of helping him the allied nations waged war against him. He left many alive and look at the result....


I disagree with you here Hp_Tech. This is not a nice thing to post either and you know this too. I believe that the Jewish victims during WW2 deserve every bit of respect. I'm very proud of the Muslims who saved Jews and other victims of Nazi savagery during WW2. The truth about Hitler was that he was a warmongering brutal dictator. He murdered millions of Jews (not only Jews even other people like gypsies, disabled, etc) and that makes him sick in the head. He deserved what was coming to him. Reading about the warcrimes committed by the Nazis during WW2 makes me sick and lose hope in humanity. It's very sad to read that something like that ever happened and so is any other tragic event. One important thing to note is that many holocaust survivors and Jews in the US also became pro-Palestinian in the end due to empathy, that includes people like Hedy Epstein who died 2 years ago due to cancer, her website is here incase you want to visit it http://www.hedyepstein.com/. Even Einstein for example seemed to have become critical of Israel in the end, often theorized by his rejection to the request of becoming the president of Israel although he did consider himself a Zionist but he was pretty special compared to other Zionists as these other Zionists would often stage terrorist attacks against Arabs but the reason why he was special was because he would support a state for the Jews as long as it didin't happen through violence and would rather see an agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than a Jewish state which does contradict Zionism in a way. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people in Israel don't care about Jewish victims either (especially those who Immigrated to Israel from countries outside Europe) since they've used similar words to what Nazis and other right-wingers would use whenever they want to insult Arabs. I remember seeing a screenshot from a video of were a man in Israel said that Israel should do to the Palestinians what Hitler did to the Jews which is pretty obvious that this person doesn't care about the Jews either otherwise he wouldn't be saying that. The prime minister of Israel also claimed one time that Hitler didin't want to exterminate the Jews which is false and which was considered an insult to the holocaust victims https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525 - "Netanyahu: Hitler Didn't Want to Exterminate the Jews" Also Israel has a history of supporting far right European political parties that have their origin in both Facism and Nazism because of its desperate hatred towards Muslims since Muslims are more likely to support Palestine.


An interesting quote by Einstein:

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain?especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state"




I agree, since the Jews are sadly being mocked by some Arabs. The point that we Arabs shouldn't forget is that Jerusalem was inhabited by Jews for thousands of years. King Solomon build the Great Temple there, the Messiah Jesus walked there and many other prophets that were sent by God.

We have to accept that Jews and Israelis have one of the biggest positions since Jesus was a Jew and is king and lord in the eternal paradise that is to come. We should life together and help each other instead of listening blindly to evil politicians who fuel their belly with fire and worship Satan.

Imagine what kind of super power the Arabs and Jews will become in the middle east if they start working together and act like brothers of each other since they actually are both cousins from each other and sons of Abraham their father.

Well tbh I'm tired of writing a response everytime I see posts like this. No they aren't being 'mocked' by Arabs. So what if Jews inhabited the land for thousands of years? Who cares really? Fact still remains that there were Palestinian Arabs living on that land that aren't allowed to return to their own homes today and that there were Arabs who were expelled from their own homes and the Arab population was ethnic-cleansed. Did you know that prior to the existance of Israel, Arabs used to be a majority in the land (in all cities) and they also owned a lot more homes than the Jews ever did?

Arabs don't need Israel to become super power, they need better politicians that make the right decisions. Countries like the UAE or Qatar are doing quite fine without Israel already and if they started to implement things such as freedom of expression or secularism for example they would improve a lot more. Any Arab politician that would have done this though would have been overthrown in military coups supported by the US and the European countries since an Arab country becoming a superpower is considered a threat to both Israel and the US. Just notice how the US is trying really hard in causing instability in countries that are enemies to Israel (even in non-Arab countries like Iran and Pakistan), coincidence? No. One can argue that Israel is partly responsible for what's happening in Syria too (were hundreds of thousands have died) and in these other countries.

Countries like Nauru is a great example of a country that has great relations with Israel and it isn't doing very well either so really relations with Israel seems to be completely irrelevant. The Arab countries becoming friends with Israel won't really change anything, it will just let Israel get away with its crimes while the US is causing instability in countries like Iran. So in conclusion the relations with Israel has like zero correlation really, it's when the Arab countries get better politicians that want to reform through secular and humanitarian values that the Arab countries will improve a lot. Problem is that the leaders who often take power are too incompetent to rule.

Let's not forget that Israel sells tons of weapons to the Burma regime which the regime uses to kill Rohingya Muslims (and non-Muslims) with and Israel also sells to India (under Modi) weapons that the regime uses to oppress Kashmiris who want an independant state. It's not easy to get over this fact.



It is not a question of muslims or christians or jews it is a question of imperialism and colonilism and sntching counrties by the law of raw weapon power. According to intenrational law there is not anything complicated in it. To make it into a religoous question is to look for excuses for the greatest scam, hypocrisy and overrumpling of international law.

?Long live a unified Palestine!

And may God shorten the suffering of tthe occupied and slow motion genocided population of Palestine.

Totally agreed. :handshake:


This is an appalling thing to say Layth.  The rabid desire to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people because of their country of origin or religion is a sickness.

I thought you had broken free from religious fanaticism.


I don't see where he has a 'rabid desire' to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people. It looks a lot like you made that assumption. The first verse talks about how the Children of Israel will commit great corruption on earth although keep in mind that I believe this has already happened at one point and then another talks about the destruction of the nation Israel which has also happened. It doesn't mention anything about any people getting killed. In my opinion the destruction of Israel would have indeed been an amazing thing to see since it would have been a slap on the face on a bully (and karma) but that doesn't imply that I'd want to see people living in the country getting killed. Israel is pretty much the oppressor in the region.




imrankhawaja

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2018, 02:55:01 AM »

:handshake: True.

I find Urdu to be an awesome language that has a lot in common with Arabic. 8) I do know some words and I'm going to learn more of the language in the future. I find Pakistan to be a very interesting and beautiful country too and I'd like to visit it one day, I loved its response in the UN regarding Jerusalem too. Despite the cowardly US empty threats against Pakistan, Pakistan will always support the Palestinians. In my old posts I've been very ignorant about Pakistan and the other South-Asian countries and their people and it was wrong on so many levels and shameful. Pakistan is an amazing country and Desi culture is very interesting and lovely. What Palestinians go through everyday is what Kashmiris go through and the struggle is very similar if not the same.


But the funny thing is despite the US empty threats of cutting aid-money, most countries still opposed the US decision on Jerusalem.

   

peace brother, :handshake:
urdu borrowed lot of words from arabic and even the style of writing is similar with arabic .. and i love arabian food a lot specially here in uk i tried different arabian foods and honestly i enjoy arabian food more than asian food..

i love every muslim nation and every peacemaking nation reside on the planet  of earth ..its so lovely to see that you evolved yourself, because a common person in pakistan have no knowledge of worldly politics as they are struggling lot of things due to the corruption of our systematic politics going on there for decades , they still suffering from electricity,gas,sewage and lot other things .. but even after knowing that a common person of pakistan never accepted israel and their sympathies are always with the people of palestine.. and same thing is happening in kashmir ..

recently TRUMP accuse pakistan of getting billions in the name of lies..  :rotfl: :rotfl:
i know its happened due to the reason of not accepting his decision ..

he forget to add , america used pakistan for their own sake and due to all of this war the pressure of afghani immigrants beared by pakistan , roughly 3.5 million afghani moves to pakistan since 2001 ..

and he said its time to stop aid for pakistan.. (how funny this joker is)

we are always against terrorism and what terrorist do even a terrorist belong to any muslim group we will fight with him and put him on trial for his crimes
 
but why people dnt see what america did in iraq and afghanistan is also a act of terrorism. millions of people are homeless, thousands of them died who have no link with so called terrorist activities... (from their lens america is the greator terrorist) losing home and beloved is not a good experience

osama died officially so what are they doing there?  there are lot of questions now asking who really is a terrorist ?


huruf

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2018, 03:07:39 AM »
The reading of the Qur'an as fables or myths in the style of the Bible is a curse on its teachings. "Bani Isra'il" is an instance of that kind of childish mentality

There is a sura of the Qur'an called Al Isra'.

'ill is also an Arabic term usually translated in the Qur'an as kinship or pact of kinship
    
Chapter (9) sūrat l-tawbah (The Repentance)
 (9:8)

Sahih International: How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

Verse (9:10)


Sahih International: They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.


Dictionnaries give as basic meaning of root seen-ra-ya:

to travel by night, to set out, depart by night...

This is mentionned in the Qur'an at least in two cases, that of Lut with his followers and that of Musa and his followers. In both cases we might say that those people are bani isra'il, those who set out at night.

The whole sura Al Isra' is about that, set out at night.

In fact, in most, if not all, spiritual development of peoples all over the world there is the description of the travelling of the faithful from darkness into the light. So really, this turning of the teachings of spiritual reality contained in the Qur'an into plump genetical or genealogical inductions, are indeed degenerate caricatures of what is basically a depiction of righteousness and spiritual aspirations of human kind. The Qur'an is very clear repeatedly saying that in the lenneages there are good and bad apples, in grouping people on their moral traits (salihin, mu'minin, etc. or kfirin, fasiqin, etc.) and not on their genetical identity, so this tainting of the Qur'an with something alien to it is a source of corruption of its teachings.

God is not a real state trader, but our Rabb and Creator, of all of us. And to claim a land for some obscure trading between a real state God and some priviledged people is filth.

God laws, inscribed in human fikra with the concept of justice and equity, do not give more rights or privilege to some persons over others. Therefore the "problems" of the "Holy Land" are nto such problems but instances of corruption and abuse on the part of the powerful empire of today, the successor of the British Empire which arranged the desruction of the Middle East of which Palestine is a piece, a very fundamental piece. Jews are used as cannon fodder (priviledged cannon fodder, but still cannon fodder) and escape goats of what is in itself another edition of the same imperial disease well known over the millennia. It is very useful to deturn anger against the trampling of the Palestinian people against the "Jews" rather than against the real author of the whole plot, who on the other hand is a master of disguise, of perpetrating the harm while lamenting it after and showing the "best will" for the stage. Teh state of Israel is an illegal, sick state, whose existence was brought in order to destroy all that surrounds it. Not to do a favour to "Jews", but to use "Jews to do the job of the unscrupolous morally rotten imperials.

God and "God's people" are nowhere int he picture and we all are God's people when we choose to travel from darness to light, and are not God's people when we choose to remain in darkness and prefer colourful lies to plain truth and believe ourselves to be over others and above duty to equity, justice and mercy.

So the prophecies of the Qur'an regarding "bani isra'il" are always true if we bear in mind what "bani isra'il" really means. When we betray our journey, we will suffer the consequences. There is not doubt that the present state of Israel
will be destroyed by its own poison and all precedents will be right, not on a genetical basis but on the very simple moral basis.

May God shorten the suffering of the Palestinian people and may so many "Jews" misled by their shaytanic handlers choose the isra' instead of remaining in the darkness of believeing that they are gods to other lesser ones.

Salaam 

owlwithbow

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2018, 03:36:55 AM »

:handshake: True.

I find Urdu to be an awesome language that has a lot in common with Arabic. 8) I do know some words and I'm going to learn more of the language in the future. I find Pakistan to be a very interesting and beautiful country too and I'd like to visit it one day, I loved its response in the UN regarding Jerusalem too. Despite the cowardly US empty threats against Pakistan, Pakistan will always support the Palestinians. In my old posts I've been very ignorant about Pakistan and the other South-Asian countries and their people and it was wrong on so many levels and shameful. Pakistan is an amazing country and Desi culture is very interesting and lovely. What Palestinians go through everyday is what Kashmiris go through and the struggle is very similar if not the same.

I agree with you on Trump. The Muslim world needs someone that will stand up against Trump. I found it very shameful when I read that Saudi-Arabia gave Trump millions dollars worth of gifts but it's not suprising since the Saudi regime and Trump are very good friends and share similarities and Trump helps them get away with their war crimes in Yemen.

I was watching the stream when the countries were voting in the UN and it was really disturbing listening to the American ambassador (Nikki Haley) and the Israeli ambassador since they both appeared like total hypocrites, although sadly no one called them out on it but it looked like everyone wanted to just sleep whenever they were talking. The Israeli ambassador only kept bashing Palestinians in the UN and showing off an old coin thinking it was a really good argument. But the funny thing is despite the US empty threats of cutting aid-money, most countries still opposed the US decision on Jerusalem.


I disagree with this post and it seems to be a conspiracy theory. The truth about the Ashkenazi Jews is that some Ashkenazi Jews do belong in that land yes but it's really irrelevant if they did anyway. It doesn't matter where you originate from. The reason why Trump supports Israel could have to do with a lot of reasons but I don't think that it's because he is in bed with the "Khazarian mafia". One of the reasons could be because his daughter is in a relationship with a pro-Israel Jew (which is why she converted to Judaism) that might influence his decision as a father in politics. Another reason is that Israel has traditionally been an ally of the US while most of its neighbours became friends with the Soviet and since he's pretty much an American nationalist (and a warmongerer) he will support Israel. He also hates Muslims as proven by his actions towards the Muslim countries and his ban that targets Muslim countries only.   




I disagree with you here Hp_Tech. This is not a nice thing to post either and you know this too. I believe that the Jewish victims during WW2 deserve every bit of respect. I'm very proud of the Muslims who saved Jews and other victims of Nazi savagery during WW2. The truth about Hitler was that he was a warmongering brutal dictator. He murdered millions of Jews (not only Jews even other people like gypsies, disabled, etc) and that makes him sick in the head. He deserved what was coming to him. Reading about the warcrimes committed by the Nazis during WW2 makes me sick and lose hope in humanity. It's very sad to read that something like that ever happened and so is any other tragic event. One important thing to note is that many holocaust survivors and Jews in the US also became pro-Palestinian in the end due to empathy, that includes people like Hedy Epstein who died 2 years ago due to cancer, her website is here incase you want to visit it http://www.hedyepstein.com/. Even Einstein for example seemed to have become critical of Israel in the end, often theorized by his rejection to the request of becoming the president of Israel although he did consider himself a Zionist but he was pretty special compared to other Zionists as these other Zionists would often stage terrorist attacks against Arabs but the reason why he was special was because he would support a state for the Jews as long as it didin't happen through violence and would rather see an agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than a Jewish state which does contradict Zionism in a way. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people in Israel don't care about Jewish victims either (especially those who Immigrated to Israel from countries outside Europe) since they've used similar words to what Nazis and other right-wingers would use whenever they want to insult Arabs. I remember seeing a screenshot from a video of were a man in Israel said that Israel should do to the Palestinians what Hitler did to the Jews which is pretty obvious that this person doesn't care about the Jews either otherwise he wouldn't be saying that. The prime minister of Israel also claimed one time that Hitler didin't want to exterminate the Jews which is false and which was considered an insult to the holocaust victims https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525 - "Netanyahu: Hitler Didn't Want to Exterminate the Jews" Also Israel has a history of supporting far right European political parties that have their origin in both Facism and Nazism because of its desperate hatred towards Muslims since Muslims are more likely to support Palestine.


An interesting quote by Einstein:

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain?especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state"




Well tbh I'm tired of writing a response everytime I see posts like this. No they aren't being 'mocked' by Arabs. So what if Jews inhabited the land for thousands of years? Who cares really? Fact still remains that there were Palestinian Arabs living on that land that aren't allowed to return to their own homes today and that there were Arabs who were expelled from their own homes and the Arab population was ethnic-cleansed. Did you know that prior to the existance of Israel, Arabs used to be a majority in the land (in all cities) and they also owned a lot more homes than the Jews ever did?

Arabs don't need Israel to become super power, they need better politicians that make the right decisions. Countries like the UAE or Qatar are doing quite fine without Israel already and if they started to implement things such as freedom of expression or secularism for example they would improve a lot more. Any Arab politician that would have done this though would have been overthrown in military coups supported by the US and the European countries since an Arab country becoming a superpower is considered a threat to both Israel and the US. Just notice how the US is trying really hard in causing instability in countries that are enemies to Israel (even in non-Arab countries like Iran and Pakistan), coincidence? No. One can argue that Israel is partly responsible for what's happening in Syria too (were hundreds of thousands have died) and in these other countries.

Countries like Nauru is a great example of a country that has great relations with Israel and it isn't doing very well either so really relations with Israel seems to be completely irrelevant. The Arab countries becoming friends with Israel won't really change anything, it will just let Israel get away with its crimes while the US is causing instability in countries like Iran. So in conclusion the relations with Israel has like zero correlation really, it's when the Arab countries get better politicians that want to reform through secular and humanitarian values that the Arab countries will improve a lot. Problem is that the leaders who often take power are too incompetent to rule.

Let's not forget that Israel sells tons of weapons to the Burma regime which the regime uses to kill Rohingya Muslims (and non-Muslims) with and Israel also sells to India (under Modi) weapons that the regime uses to oppress Kashmiris who want an independant state. It's not easy to get over this fact.



Totally agreed. :handshake:



I don't see where he has a 'rabid desire' to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people. It looks a lot like you made that assumption. The first verse talks about how the Children of Israel will commit great corruption on earth although keep in mind that I believe this has already happened at one point and then another talks about the destruction of the nation Israel which has also happened. It doesn't mention anything about any people getting killed. In my opinion the destruction of Israel would have indeed been an amazing thing to see since it would have been a slap on the face on a bully (and karma) but that doesn't imply that I'd want to see people living in the country getting killed. Israel is pretty much the oppressor in the region.


You use arguments like Israel sold wapeons to Burma etc., but what about Saudi Arabia bombing in Yemen?

My point: There is not a perfect government, both Israel and Saudi Arabia have things to improve on. All i want to achieve is peace between Israeli citizens and Saudi citizens. If we can't even life in peace with each other here on earth, then how can we life peacefully with each other in Heaven? What are you going to tell Abraham? I fueled the fire between your sons Isaac and Ishmael? What are you going to say to Isaac, i fought and killed your children? What are you going to say to Ishmael, i fought and killed your children? I just want to do about the standard Arab vs Israel rage, all i want to say is that they are cousins and that we shouldn't be fooled by some politicians and evil groups.
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owlwithbow

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2018, 01:07:05 AM »
Bani Israel is not a biological bloodline. This is a keyword for something else. Anyone can be from among the Children of Israel, if they're like them.

Have you read the previous Scriptures like the Tauwrat and the Zabur and the Injeel? They clearly state that Israel is human, and that Jacob is Israel and that God gave Jacob the name Israel after one night when he/Jacob was wrestling with an Angel.

Jacob had 12 children, those are called the children of Israel. A lot of prohpets and messengers came from that blood line. The Messih, Isa, is also from the bloodline of Israel, from Juda to be exactly.

That information can all be found in the Previous Scriptures. And i think the Quran is clear about this as well, you just have to read it from cover to cover a few times and stop listening to people and instead read it all for yourself.
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huruf

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2018, 02:34:44 AM »
Bani Israel is not a biological bloodline. This is a keyword for something else. Anyone can be from among the Children of Israel, if they're like them.

Israa'il

Composed of Israa' and 'ill

Quote
There is a sura of the Qur'an called Al Isra'.

'ill is also an Arabic term usually translated in the Qur'an as kinship or pact of kinship
   
Chapter (9) sūrat l-tawbah (The Repentance)
 (9:8)

Sahih International: How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

Verse (9:10)


Sahih International: They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.


Dictionnaries give as basic meaning of root seen-ra-ya:

to travel by night, to set out, depart by night...

This is mentionned in the Qur'an at least in two cases, that of Lut with his followers and that of Musa and his followers. In both cases we might say that those people are bani isra'il, those who set out at night.

The whole sura Al Isra' is about that, set out at night.

In fact, in most, if not all, spiritual development of peoples all over the world there is the description of the travelling of the faithful from darkness into the light. So really, this turning of the teachings of spiritual reality contained in the Qur'an into plump genetical or genealogical inductions, are indeed degenerate caricatures of what is basically a depiction of righteousness and spiritual aspirations of human kind. The Qur'an is very clear repeatedly saying that in the lenneages there are good and bad apples, in grouping people on their moral traits (salihin, mu'minin, etc. or kfirin, fasiqin, etc.) and not on their genetical identity, so this tainting of the Qur'an with something alien to it is a source of corruption of its teachings.


Salaam

Cerberus

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2018, 04:04:42 AM »
Israa'il

Composed of Israa' and 'ill


Yisra' El, El being God, Triumphant with God in hebrew. Maybe it has more to do with the arabic word YSR than al-israa. YSR meaning "Made easy".

owlwithbow

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Re: Jerusalem
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2018, 09:10:51 AM »
Yisra' El, El being God, Triumphant with God in hebrew. Maybe it has more to do with the arabic word YSR than al-israa. YSR meaning "Made easy".

Is yaa-sien-raa the correct root?
One God, many different Messengers, but One Message.