Author Topic: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover  (Read 17582 times)

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1793
  • Karma +2/-1
  • Gender: Female
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2017, 11:49:19 AM »
Because I have always known how people sometimes change the Quran for their own benefits (most common in occult world), Sana manuscript never made me worried about the preservation of Quran. I always thought that there was something more about it and thus researched on it on and off.

I still don't know for sure who is behind this manuscript, but yes, Yemen had some of the most hostile enemies of Islam.  Let?s remember the person who gave the most number of hadiths came from that country and his name is Abu Huraira. God himself confirmed in the Quran that fake Muslims were distorting the verses while attributing lies to Prophet without ever meeting him. Coincidently, grand mosque seems to be a product lies. Sunnis did claim that it was connected to prophet. But it turned to be false. No proof exists. Now shias have a rumor that the sana manuscript was being written by Ali. Then we have these weird western scholars who never explained why it took them so much time to find the pages since renovation of grand mosque has always been frequent. Lastly, sana manuscript seems to suffer from the issue of warsh and hafs.

When those people said the script proves Quran is not preserved right I thought they were talking about discovery of new verses and chapters. I was proven wrong. The script is not at all a big deal.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1793
  • Karma +2/-1
  • Gender: Female
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2017, 12:07:34 PM »
The context has gazillion inconsistencies if taken from traditional translation. Who is Eebles in 2:34? And why are the khafirun refered as human/people in another verse? 

2:34 seems to assert he was one of the angels. khafirun  can be any conscious being sure of what is right and wrong, yet he chooses the wrong and disobeys God.

Quote
And how can Eebles be of kafiirun in case he is clearly talking to God in a number of verses. Context has no credibility here.

I consider that as one of the best signs of how saying God exists does not make one a believer. The words such as belief and disbelief need more investigation.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Makaveli

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2017, 12:21:10 PM »
2:34 seems to assert he was one of the angels. khafirun  can be any conscious being sure of what is right and wrong, yet he chooses the wrong and disobeys God.

Nope, he was of jinn. And what is jinn? Or angel?

I consider that as one of the best signs of how saying God exists does not make one a believer. The words such as belief and disbelief need more investigation.

2:8 - 19 gives precise definition of what is al-kafirun, there is no way Eebles can be one of them, according to that definition.
براتىشكا و فايحوشى

To contact me use kasnew1 [at] gee-mail (dot) com.

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5268
  • Karma +4/-0
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2017, 03:48:26 PM »
Makaveli,just because some people seem to be in doubt and have some confusing contexts about Qoran ,it does not mean Qoran has.

Qoran is  clear as far as "Ouli Al Albab" are concerned.
That does not mean one can know the unseen or the future or  does not have a different view about them,but  one cannot stay confused about the basics .i.e good character and good morals.
 The message is crystal clear about "Sirat Al Mustaqueem"and to follow the best path instructed in it about how to live one s life.
What is to come in the next generations or in the next life can be left in the trust of its controller and Creator.

Just because Qoran deals with all these various people who do/view things differently does not mean it is not clear or old manuscripts are clearer.
Qoran does not enforce a way of life but advises on the best choices and gives a way out( A Mercy) for all "Al Naas" good,bad or ugly.
Old or new manuscripts,there is no change in its message and purpose as far as I can see.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 04:56:18 PM »
Well, I have another info on 9:28, where you take that from? If we look at other verses where taqrabu is used it always is used in negative. Take a look at Gerran's 9:28.


https://www.quranite.com/al-masjid-al-haram-in-the-quran/

Gerrans hasn?t looked into it closely since there is no such word in Qur?an or Arabic ىقربوا yaqrabū written with ?ya? that means or refers to ?you (pl.)?  and when written with ?ya? (likewise other words) refers to ?third-person (sing.)? or ?they? depending on context and never to ?you (pl.)? which is correctly written with (ta) تقربوا taqrabū/thou approach ye of ? see earlier examples?

4:43  لا not تقربوا taqrabū/thou approach ye of l-ṣalata
6:151  ولا and not تقربوا taqrabū/thou approach ye of l-fawāḥisha
9:28 فلا so not ىقربوا yaqrabū/approached they of l-masjida l-ḥarāma


Lastly, sana manuscript seems to suffer from the issue of warsh and hafs.

When those people said the script proves Quran is not preserved right I thought they were talking about discovery of new verses and chapters. I was proven wrong. The script is not at all a big deal.

Peace, the video is a rant and yes checked Sana and older Birmingham and MA VI 165 manuscripts which only slight differences that initialed verses were unnumbered and modern scripts overuse of alif which don't distinguish slight nuance if address is to plural or singular as the older scribes who took into consideration and were more careful and likewise with many other words...

19:42 اذ when قل said (no alif) لابىه to father his ىابت O father mine
21:52 اذ when قال said (with alif) لابىه to father his وقومه and folk his


Emre_1974tr

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 199
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2017, 06:06:55 PM »
The Sanaa Quran is not written in Arabic but "Aramic". It's like a translate. So, of course, they will differ from the original Arabic Quran. A friend from Alternatiforum made a phone call to Puin himself and  Puin confessed this fact.

Peace

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 02:35:17 AM »
The Sanaa Quran is not written in Arabic but "Aramic". It's like a translate. So, of course, they will differ from the original Arabic Quran. A friend from Alternatiforum made a phone call to Puin himself and  Puin confessed this fact.

Peace, verify before posting; Sana "collection" is in Arabic.

Download San'a Manuscripts - Unessco CD images here:
https://archive.org/stream/SanaManuscripts-unesscoCdImages/SanaManuscriptsUnesscoCd#page/n9/mode/2up

Few more examples which we can see match today's Qur'an.

15-22.6 2nd 002:120-002:125 Landscape Kufi Musahif 131167C


15-15.3 First/2nd 009:128-010:004 Landscape Kufi Musahif 129158B


01-29.2 20 2nd 9:129 ? 10:4 Vertical Kufi Musahif (39x36) 066049C

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1793
  • Karma +2/-1
  • Gender: Female
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 06:25:49 AM »
Nope, he was of jinn. And what is jinn? Or angel?


Is it not possible that we might be dealing with a bad translation? But then again, the explanation of that can be found in other verses. I will take a look at it when I get time. Currently, I am focusing on some other verses linked to lifestyle on earth.

Quote
2:8 - 19 gives precise definition of what is al-kafirun, there is no way Eebles can be one of them, according to that definition.

Check 5:44
Indeed, We revealed the Taurat in it was Guidance and light; judged by it the Prophets, those who had submitted for those who were Jews, and the Rabbis, and the scholars, with what they were entrusted of the Book of Allah and they were to it witnesses. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not sell My Verses for a little price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, then those are the disbelievers.

Iblees was asked to do something by God, but he rejected. Same is true for the people in 2:8-19.

Theme of the verses:

Those are the ones who bought  astraying for  guidance. So not profited their commerce and not were they guided-ones.2:16

Someone needs to analyze 2:17. The translation isn't making any sense to me.


https://www.quranite.com/al-masjid-al-haram-in-the-quran/

Gerrans hasn?t looked into it closely since there is no such word in Qur?an or Arabic ىقربوا yaqrabū written with ?ya? that means or refers to ?you (pl.)?  and when written with ?ya? (likewise other words) refers to ?third-person (sing.)? or ?they? depending on context and never to ?you (pl.)? which is correctly written with (ta) تقربوا taqrabū/thou approach ye of ? see earlier examples?

4:43  لا not تقربوا taqrabū/thou approach ye of l-ṣalata
6:151  ولا and not تقربوا taqrabū/thou approach ye of l-fawāḥisha
9:28 فلا so not ىقربوا yaqrabū/approached they of l-masjida l-ḥarāma


Peace, the video is a rant and yes checked Sana and older Birmingham and MA VI 165 manuscripts which only slight differences that initialed verses were unnumbered and modern scripts overuse of alif which don't distinguish slight nuance if address is to plural or singular as the older scribes who took into consideration and were more careful and likewise with many other words...

19:42 اذ when قل said (no alif) لابىه to father his ىابت O father mine
21:52 اذ when قال said (with alif) لابىه to father his وقومه and folk his



Their whole drama is rather deceptive and revolves around folklore of sunnis and shias.

What these so called scholars don't want to say is that the Quran didn't originate from Yemen. It was another territory. It was a foreign land invaded. So what is found in their book proves nothing about the credibility of the one we study.

Needless to say faulty Arabic and verses are still found in Quran published in some foreign places.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Jafar

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4082
  • Karma +111/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 06:35:46 AM »


Iblees was asked to do something by God, but he rejected. Same is true for the people in 2:8-19.



Weird God... and He supposed to be All-Controlling and All-Powerful...
Yet he lost control over somebody called Iblees and also puny and primitive primate named human?

From my POV:
When the True God wants anything to do something then It/He/She will do it...
Or in other words everything that's done by anything it's 100% in accordance to His plan...

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 5268
  • Karma +4/-0
Re: Sanaa Quran no diatrical marks and vowel points, Syriac-Aramaic crossover
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2017, 07:28:57 AM »
Peace jafar.

Do you think GOD is losing control over you or anyone else?

Funny how we want GOD to control others,even though they were given the "freedom/promise" to chose for themselves ,yet will blame GOD for their behaviour/conduct?
Yes indeed ,weird are the creatures not the Creator!!!

Anyway,GOD bless you and keep you free to say/do what you wish.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/