Author Topic: Quran and Women & Patriarchy  (Read 5405 times)

huruf

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 12:10:09 AM »
I guessyou only have to go to UQ profile, "show posts" and look for the date.

The post was quite good and I unloaded the article.

Of course it is  must that those who re the Qur'an are well aware of its language and the article illustrates some errors some people commit with grammar.

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Cerberus

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 03:55:21 AM »
So it's better to be a slut and not be a modest woman? Wearing a bikini and a tight short skirt is better?

Women who dress in a revealing and/or extravagant fashion are simply people to whom looking good brings good feeling about their own self. They are more inclined to their outer self and in doing so they are ignorant of their true self. They should be viewed with sympathy.


Wakas

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All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

burhan

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2017, 10:56:59 AM »
Is the Quran a patriarchal text? Why are women spoken of often in terms of their sexuality in the Quran? (eg. Mariam is described as good for being "chaste"; dress code for women (and slave women?); the issue of "whom your right hand possesses", genderless Allah always being referred to as He etc etc)

Please share your thoughts, it's something I am really struggling with, unpicking the patriarchal interpretations from what the actual text is saying.

Thank you

Yes it is patriarchal. Women are never spoken to directly, it's always in the 2nd/3rd person. Even when it comes to their menses, it's the men who are instructed to keep away.
The Quran doesn't empower the women in they way you are thinking. You will not find a verse like "O' women tell your men to refrain from touching you when you are menstruating. That is better for them".  That would be an empowering verse. They are instructed to do things but they are not given direct control. The control is with men.

Also, curiously, other than Mary no female character is mentioned by her name. It's always wife/woman of Lot/Pharoh/Adam etc.
I really found it odd that the Bible has many female characters named and the Quran has none (other than Mary). 
Seems deliberate rather than accidental ... I have not yet figured out why. 




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huruf

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 12:14:51 PM »
Yes it is patriarchal. Women are never spoken to directly, it's always in the 2nd/3rd person. Even when it comes to their menses, it's the men who are instructed to keep away.
The Quran doesn't empower the women in they way you are thinking. You will not find a verse like "O' women tell your men to refrain from touching you when you are menstruating. That is better for them".  That would be an empowering verse. They are instructed to do things but they are not given direct control. The control is with men.

Also, curiously, other than Mary no female character is mentioned by her name. It's always wife/woman of Lot/Pharoh/Adam etc.
I really found it odd that the Bible has many female characters named and the Quran has none (other than Mary). 
Seems deliberate rather than accidental ... I have not yet figured out why.

No that would not be an empowering aya. It is God speaking and He is ordering something, not to women but to men. He is telling them what to do or rather what no to do, that is, pester their wives.

Why should He tell the women to tell the men "do not pester me? They do not need God to tell them that, they can say it by themselves just like that, no instructions needed. But what if men or some men they just don't care and still pester them. He does not get any far telling the women than men should not pester them. Is He not God? so go God and tell you them, may be they will listen to You.

And youhave Got it wrong, God does not address the men, He tells the prophet to tell them this or that, God does not address them. He does with the same as with women. He tels the Prophet to tell them.

As to that women are never spoken to directly? Just as about as much as men, because there are most ayas which are addressed to the believers or to the people without distinction of women or men. As to telling men what they should do to women, it is always duties, so if He es imposing duties on them, He better tell them. He is the authority. And he is not addressing men.

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AndGod is not addressing women in terms of their sexuality any more than men. Maryam is not addressed in terms of her sexuality and It is not saying she is chaste, although that is taken for granted since she is good and good men and good women are chaste, and the Qur'an at no time expects more chastity from women than from men. If you "ay" say so, quote please.

Keep chastity is expressed as HfaDH farj(pronoun) not as ahsana. The term employed is Maryam is no HafDH but ahsanat.

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Makaveli

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 05:47:33 PM »
Is the Quran a patriarchal text? Why are women spoken of often in terms of their sexuality in the Quran? (eg. Mariam is described as good for being "chaste"; dress code for women (and slave women?); the issue of "whom your right hand possesses", genderless Allah always being referred to as He etc etc)

Please share your thoughts, it's something I am really struggling with, unpicking the patriarchal interpretations from what the actual text is saying.

Thank you

They fail to define Allah or Qur'an as a whole. One thing is iblees, sectarians claim it is a devil like dude who is refered as al-kafiirun (2:34), when he is clearly not one of them, at all. There are gazzilion of inconsistencies in the Qur'an and everyone is trying to impose his/her opinion on the subject and use their primitive apologetics, like in this thread, whereas the text itself is highly nonsensical. Such as there are 4 possible spouses mentioned in 4:3, but what (if at all?) does it have to do with the orphans? All wives are orphans? And why the same text repeats itself in 35:1 when talking about the angels?

Traditional interpretation of Qur'an is patriarchal one way or the other. It talks about executing authority and maintenance of hierarchal servility, which is always a patriarchal notion. And it 'promises' certain 'companions' for devoted ones, which are hinted to be females. It also constantly mocks those that it defines as al-kafiirun, and promotes the established of a fascistic regime (which is always patriarchal), where blind slaves like Gerrans will persecute and mock those they define as al-kafiirun. Any attempt at reasoning with these people, however, leads to them parroting certain dogmas like "if God wills he will guide you" while they blatantly fail to back their claims by the text itself. Funny thing they actually claim to be "open-minded", "thinking for themselves" and "non-sectarian".

One who uses (mostly female folk here) the he/she argument (i.e. no gender specified) without properly [re]understanding the Qur'an altogether (i.e. using traditional interpretations) is basically a blind liar, he has no basis to use he/she in verses when they are clearly attributed to men.  :ignore:

However, it is not that simple with the Qur'an. You have to look deeper, unless you want to remain in the dogma.
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Makaveli

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2017, 07:28:02 PM »
Only females?????

Explain me, also if you can you may combine your response with your reasoning of a defensive war, just saying, how can a woman take a man-slave without having another man (her master/provider/chief/lord/husband/caliph/sultan/you name it) give her a slave? How is it biologically possible for women to take other men as "their right hand possess"? Unless we talk about lovers outside of marriage and not war bounty, then please also explain the inconsistency of no sex before marriage.

Joking. Don't bother. I know you are not good at sectarian apologetics.
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Noon waalqalami

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 03:07:15 AM »
Is the Quran a patriarchal text?

Peace, in Arabic there are nuances depending on context e.g. him/his i.e. said person; see inheritance example.

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Comrox

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 10:44:12 PM »
So it's better to be a slut and not be a modest woman? Wearing a bikini and a tight short skirt is better?

That's a huge stretch.
10:109 Follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges.

57:3 He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Innermost. And He is fully aware of all things.

SleepySoul

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Re: Quran and Women & Patriarchy
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 06:51:20 AM »
Quote
Women who dress in a revealing and/or extravagant fashion are simply people to whom looking good brings good feeling about their own self. They are more inclined to their outer self and in doing so they are ignorant of their true self. They should be viewed with sympathy.

What about such men?