If the Tauwrat, Zabur and Injeel are corrupted, why does the Quran say...

Started by SeekingThePrayer, August 26, 2017, 05:55:31 AM

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John

Quote from: Jafar on October 17, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
Here's a 100% honest answer:

The other books need to be INFERIORIZED in order to SUPREMIZE a specific book.

When we put something on a pedestal, thus higher than others, we need to legitimize such act by putting others as lower compared to the thing that we put on a pedestal.

The mechanism on how we 'lowerize' others varied...
Claiming that "others" are corrupted is only one common example among many.
Others are corrupted while "my/our" idol on the pedestal is not thus it is SUPERIOR compared to others.

So does the thing that we put on the pedestal, it varied, it can be:
- My holy book
- My religion
- My god
- My idol
- My ethnicity
- My nationality
- My political party
- My ideology
- My candidate
- My tribe
- My football club
- My Car
- My Product
- My wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend
- My-SELF

And millions of others that we IDENTIFY ourselves with.
In order to SUPERIORIZE the thing we IDENTIFY ourselves with, we need to INFERIORIZE others.

Jafar, honestly, you didn't address my argument. You did a little avoidance.

What you did do was confirm my charge against Muslims, viz., how could it come about that the Bible today is not the real injeel or Taurat and was replaced by a fake or altered one?

So, I will ask the same questions hoping for evidence of how this great undetected conspiracy arose.

1. Where is any copy of this "injeel" now?

2. What evidence is there that there was an injeel different from the Gospels before and/or at the time of Muhammad?

3. How come your god couldn't stop people tampering with and destroying it?

4. How logistically could a man or group of men go all the way around the world, to every nook and cranny, to every church, home, library, king's palace, monastery, university, rich man's house...and steal the "original" 1000's of injeels and replace it with a fake one OR alter its words? How could this occur and no one get caught or there be no one waking up in the morning going, "Hey, who's been altering my injeel?"

I'm still waiting for an honest Muslim (I know, an oxymoron!). Any takers? Anyone brave enough?

centi50

Quote from: Novice on December 25, 2018, 03:47:42 AM
Quran is not telling us to let followers of Al-Injeel to decide as per their book but they were to decide as per their book when it was revealed to them. Please read 5:46-47 together to see what they mean.

5:46-47
وَقَفَّيۡنَا عَلَىٰٓ ءَاثَـٰرِهِم بِعِيسَى ٱبۡنِ مَرۡيَمَ مُصَدِّقً۬ا لِّمَا بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ مِنَ ٱلتَّوۡرَٮٰةِ‌ۖ وَءَاتَيۡنَـٰهُ ٱلۡإِنجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدً۬ى وَنُورٌ۬ وَمُصَدِّقً۬ا لِّمَا بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ مِنَ ٱلتَّوۡرَٮٰةِ وَهُدً۬ى وَمَوۡعِظَةً۬ لِّلۡمُتَّقِينَ (٤٦)

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

وَلۡيَحۡكُمۡ أَهۡلُ ٱلۡإِنجِيلِ بِمَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ فِيهِ‌ۚ وَمَن لَّمۡ يَحۡڪُم بِمَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ فَأُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلۡفَـٰسِقُونَ
so that let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah revealed therein. And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed - then it was those who were the defiantly disobedient.


005.047

"Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed in it. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God has revealed, they are those who rebel



By the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) (Late 6th early 7th century), parts of the Bible had already undergone changes and a creed had developed (The Council of Nicaea congregated in 325AD). The Quran however, is still clearly recognising the text that lay with them.

But then again God says

005.077

"Say: "O people of the Book! do not exceed in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way."

And again we are told by God to say


005.068

"Say: "O People of the Book! you have no ground to stand upon unless you firmly stand by (Arabic: Tuqimu) the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from thy Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But do not grieve over disbelieving people"

If there is no truth, why God again tells to tell the people of the book to stand by the Torah and gospel.

This is again during the time of prophet Muhammad

THE JEWS JUDGED BY THE TORAH



005.043
But why do they come to you for decision, when they have (their own) Torah before them?  therein is the (plain) command of


Again we are told among the people of the book there are  those who are good

003:113-114

"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand: They rehearse the verses of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten in good deeds: They are in the ranks of the righteous"

005.082-83

"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers you will find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers you will find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses."

007.159

"Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth."



005.066

"If only they had stood firmly by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelations that were sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil."



003.075

"Among the People of the Book are some who, if entrusted with a hoard of gold, will (readily) pay it back; others, who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless you constantly stand demanding, because, they say, "there is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (Pagans)." but they tell a lie against God, and (well) they know it."



010.094

"If you were in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before you: the Truth has indeed come to you from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt."



Note this is being revealed to the prophet after the scribes and law bearers of the previous scriptures have allowed some textual accretions to be absorbed as part of the text. So therefore, it is clear from this statement that the truth still existed amongst them and there were knowledgeable folk amongst the people of the book.

God bless all

shakeel

I've always had an issue with this too. Unless the Quran is talking about the gospel of Thomas or other Apocrypha as being the real injeel.
Or maybe the so called Q gospel. who knows