Author Topic: Deuteronomy 2 & 18: Prophet Muhammad Was an Edomite From Jordan & NOT a Saudi  (Read 697 times)

ThelosttruthsofIslam

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Peace to You All,

The Torah tells us very clearly that prophet Muhammad was an Edomite from Petra, Jordan. Prophet Muhammad was a son of Esau, the Israel's brother (Jacob) who married his uncle Ishmaels's daughter and settled in the south of dead sea in current country of Jordan. The Torah makes it abundantly clear that the promised prophet will come from the Israelites' brothers who were known as the Edomites, which NEVER lived even close to Saudi Arabia but have ALWAYS lived in the south of the Dead Sea in what is known as Jordan.

Here is a video where I delve deeper into this topic:

https://youtu.be/FRk1jjHpCaI

I hope and pray you find it useful.

Peace and Blessings :)

siddy

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Thank you for posting this. I have a question though... doesn't Quran claim that ALL of previous books have been corrupted? Why should we believe in anything that Torah claims then?

TheWhiteSpider

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Thank you for posting this. I have a question though... doesn't Quran claim that ALL of previous books have been corrupted? Why should we believe in anything that Torah claims then?

Because God told the people of the Gospel to judge with the Gospel in the time of Muhammad, see 5:47. Because God told the people of the Gospel and Torah to uphold their Books, and said, if they don't, they have no bases, see 5:68.

We all know that the Bible was already canonized in the time of Muhammad. Only sectarians like to throw away other Scriptures, because it exposes their false doctrines which they claim to have found in this "one and only" Book they claim to follow.

TheWhiteSpider

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Peace to You All,

The Torah tells us very clearly that prophet Muhammad was an Edomite from Petra, Jordan. Prophet Muhammad was a son of Esau, the Israel's brother (Jacob) who married his uncle Ishmaels's daughter and settled in the south of dead sea in current country of Jordan. The Torah makes it abundantly clear that the promised prophet will come from the Israelites' brothers who were known as the Edomites, which NEVER lived even close to Saudi Arabia but have ALWAYS lived in the south of the Dead Sea in what is known as Jordan.

Here is a video where I delve deeper into this topic:

https://youtu.be/FRk1jjHpCaI

I hope and pray you find it useful.

Peace and Blessings :)

There is no doubt that Ishmael lived in Bacca which most likely is todays Petra. Even sectarians believe once upon a time in history the Sacred Temple was moved.

Also doesn't make sense that the well that God gave to Ishmael and Hagar is in todays Makkah if you read the Torah carefully.

Also, where did Moses perform his pilgrimage to when he was at Median..? Probably Baccah!

jkhan

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There is no doubt that Ishmael lived in Bacca which most likely is todays Petra. Even sectarians believe once upon a time in history the Sacred Temple was moved.

Also doesn't make sense that the well that God gave to Ishmael and Hagar is in todays Makkah if you read the Torah carefully.

Also, where did Moses perform his pilgrimage to when he was at Median..? Probably Baccah!

Peace TWS

It is absolutely certain that Becca is the place of first house built by Ibrahim and Ismail..
But Question is where could this Becca possibly be... For me as well Mecca is far from reality.. No evidence from Quran  or even historically to substantiate....  But  I lean toward Petra coz of tangible evidences within Quran compared with this massive ancient ruined city...

God knows best the truth of the past...

good logic

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Peace TheWhiteSpider.

You say, quote:

"Because God told the people of the Gospel to judge with the Gospel in the time of Muhammad, see 5:47. Because God told the people of the Gospel and Torah to uphold their Books, and said, if they don't, they have no bases, see 5:68.
We all know that the Bible was already canonized in the time of Muhammad. Only sectarians like to throw away other Scriptures, because it exposes their false doctrines which they claim to have found in this "one and only" Book they claim to follow."

Indeed GOD told them to uphold the Torah and the Gospel. that was sent to them . i.e GOD s words.
Unless one provides evidence that the bible contains only the Torah and the Gospel that GOD sent down, they have no right to claim GOD told them to uphold all the bible.
Yes GOD s words may be present in some of the bible , the same bible that existed during the time of Mohammed, but GOD is clear and precise with what it is said to them: Only uphold GOD s words/scripture, here are the verses again to confirm:

Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.

i.e GOD s wordsonly. Messengers only deliver GOD s words, not their own or other people s words:

We have taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we sent to them messengers. Whenever a messenger went to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected, and some they killed.

Unfortunately people change GOD s words into their own through their own interpretations and interests.:

They thought that they would not be tested, so they turned blind and deaf, then God redeemed them, but then many of them turned blind and deaf again. God is Seer of everything they do.

Look again what GOD is saying to the new messenger here:

O you messenger, deliver what is revealed to you from your Lord - until you do, you have not delivered His message - and God will protect you from the people. God does not guide the disbelieving people.

i.e Only GOD s words -What is revealed to you from your Lord!!!- GOD s message are only GOD s words. Not the messenger s words or any other words.

So. GOD is saying to all those who receive scripture from GOD to only follow GOD s words,not men s words.
Is the bible all of it GOD s words? What is the evidence?
The verses are not saying uphold the bible . They are saying uphold GOD s words in the bible or anywhere else- Remember there are other documents that may contain Torah and Gospel that are not in the bible s 66 books like there are other historical documents letters etc that are not in the Torah or Gospel but are in the bible.
GOD is absolutely clear with what is said to all of us who received scripture.:
follow only what GOD has revealed. It is up to us to check with our GOD given faculties and search to distinguish GOD s words from men s words.:
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=108
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

tlihawa

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Salamun alaykum,
I have another opinion on this topic. Here are from my old posts,

Salam,
I've been search for a place called Bakkah for a long time, but could not find it anywhere. Until I realized that I'm asking wrong question about Bakkah. To understand what bakkah is, I need to clarify the related words come up in the same context such as bayt, hajj, and what the things Ibrahim and Ishmael have done in the past, according to Quran. Let's get into the verses:

=Bayt=
There's a lot of verses talking about bayt in Quran, both physically and metaphorically. but clearly, we can distinguish them by look at the context. Here is the example how to treat the word 'bayt' taught by Allah:

29:41 The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house<baytan>; but truly the weakest of houses <buyuti>is the spider?s house <baytu>;- if they but knew.

29:42 And such are the Parables We set forth for mankind, but only those understand them who have knowledge.


This verse has described the Polytheism belief as weakest house metaphorically. So we knew that when a verse talk about a house or bayt, followed by a statement regarding either polytheism or monotheism, the house(s) or bayt here must be understood metaphorically.

For example :

16:26   Those before them had schemed, so God came to their buildings from the foundation, thus the roof fell on top of them; and the retribution came to them from where they did not know.
16:27   Then, on the Day of Resurrection He will humiliate them, and say: "Where are My partners regarding whom you used to dispute?" Those who have received the knowledge said: "The humiliation today and the misery are upon the rejecters."


In 16:26, it talks about a building which its roof has fell down. And this verse followed by a question regarding God's partner confirming polytheism practiced by some people. It means that the buildings here must be understood metaphorically, just like the spider's house mentioned in 24:91.

And another parable has explained by God in following verses:

24:35    Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

24:36 In houses <buyuutin>, which Allah hath permitted to be raised; for the celebration, in them, of His name: In them is He glorified in the mornings and in the evenings,-


In 24:35, Allah has described Himself using parable. And do you recall a house which its foundation has been raised up by Ibrahim and Ishmael? It's one of the houses raised up as mentioned in 24:36.

Let's take closer to the verses:

2:127    And as Abraham raised from the Sanctuary its foundations, along with Ishmael: "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
22:26   And We have appointed to Abraham the location of the House: "Do not set up anyone with Me, and purify My House for those who visit, and those who are standing, and the kneeling, and the prostating."


As you can see, the word house here has followed by the command not to set up any Idol, confirming Monotheism. So the house here must be understood metaphorically. This house is not laid in physical place but it's explain about the monotheism. And it's the opposite of polytheism, the spider's house.

Now, it's clear about the bayt. Let's move to another word, Hajj.

=Hajj=

Since the Bayt itself is not a physical place, the word hajj automatically has nothing to do with a physical journey. So what's the hajj then? Hajj is the calling to monotheism for the mankind.
In lane lexicon, triliteral root word Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target. And the target is bayt, the monotheism.

The only acceptable word for different people with different background of beliefs is just monotheism. That's why we are commanded not to arguing during the hajj:

2:197 ...no arguing in the hajj;

It's because we are told to talk about the only acceptable words for whole mankind : God alone.

22:67   ...So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

Now it's clear that the purpose of Hajj is to call the people which likely has different creed, and different qiblah as well, to God alone.

Hajj also has rites called Safa and Marwa also known as signs of God. Phrase signs of God also mentioned in 22:36.

2:158   Indeed, Safa and Marwa are among the signs of God.
22:36   And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the signs of God; you will have benefit in them. So mention the name of God upon them in lined up <Sawāffa> ; when they are down on their sides, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

Since there is no physical place get involved, Safa and Marwa must be translated literally:

Safa/Sawaffa
= Sad-Fa-Fa = side by side, laid out, a rank/row/line

Marwa
= Miim-Ra-Waw = the stone on which an animal is slaughtered.

So the signs of God is the plump livestock lined up and get slaughtered.

It's in line with the God's command to every people (ummah) to perform a rites (mansakan):

22:67   For every people (ummah) We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

And that rites is:

22:34   And for every people (ummah) We have established rites that they may mention the name of God over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. Your god is One god; submit to Him and give good tidings to those who obey.

Once again, the rites is for every people (ummah), means everyone which likely coming from many different beliefs.

So now we have two places has been translated into words which match into the context. Now let's move to Bakkah, the place which had been lost for many years.

=Bakka=

Bakka, since it's related to the Bayt, which has been understood as non physical structure, so nothing can stop us to do the same thing with Bakkah.

3:96 inna awwala baytin wudhi'a lilnnaasi lalladhii bibakkata mubaarakan wahudan lil'aalamiina

I've put my translation, word by word as follows:

inna

indeed

awwala

Alif-Waw-Lam - its origin or source; his or its original state,

baytin
house (please understand it metaphorically as monotheism)

wudhi'a
Waw-Dad-Ayn = the proper place of a thing.

lilnnāsi
for the mankind

lalladhī

those who

bibakkata
= Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = distinguishing/ranking above others

mubārakan

blessed

wahudan
and a guidance

lil'ālamīna
for the worlds.

So the verse will be:

3:96 Indeed, something that originated from monotheism (baytin) is a proper place for people who in the difference with another (in beliefs), which is blessed, and guidance for whole worlds.

This translation makes sense to me because it's in line with the purpose of hajj. But since I'm not good enough in Arabic, especially in grammar, any comments and input, really appreciated.

Peace

and here is another verse I used to support,

Salam,
and here is another verse to support this conclusion. It's regarding the time of hajj and its manner:

2:189  They ask you regarding the crescent moons, say: "They are a timing mechanism for the mankind and the Hajj (intention)." And piety is not that you would enter the houses (of monotheism) and become distinct <ẓuhūrihā>, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the houses (monotheism) in its proper manners <abwābihā> . And be aware of God that you may succeed.

ẓuhūrihā
Za-ha-Ra = become distinct, distinguish

abwābihā
Ba-Waw-Ba = mode/manner.

for the first time, this verse has meaning to me.

peace

The same approach used in the Injil Barnabas,

Chap 33

Then said he who had invited him: 'Master, which is the greatest sin?'

Jesus answered: 'Which is the greatest ruin of a house?'

Everyone was silent, when Jesus with his finger pointed to the foundation, and said: 'If the foundation give way, immediately the house falleth in ruin, in such wise that it is necessary to build it up anew: but if every other part give way it can be repaired. Even so then say I to you, that idolatry is the greatest sin, because it depriveth a man entirely of faith, and consequently of God; so that he can have no spiritual affection. But every other sin leaveth to man the hope of obtaining mercy: and therefore I say that idolatry is the greatest sin.'


The greatest sin is idolatry, the house of spider, the weakest house.

If there is a weak house of polytheism, of course there is a strong house with solid foundations that represents the opposite beliefs (monotheist) as illustrated by the following verse,

24:36 In houses which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings

All these parables had been set so we can understand,

29:42 And such are the Parables We set forth for mankind, but only those understand them who have knowledge.


Peace

John

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Peace to You All,

The Torah tells us very clearly that prophet Muhammad was an Edomite from Petra, Jordan. Prophet Muhammad was a son of Esau,

Peace and Blessings :)

Can you prove to me that Muhammad was a son of Esau? I've never read any genealogy that sets down an UNBROKEN line from c. 1800BC to c. 600AD.