Homosexuality is NOT normal or right

[Aries]

Peace 

Peace!
Although the Qur'an does not explicitly penalizes homosexuality,

You know what the problem is? Maybe God forgot to send down that chapter about the evil homosexual people trying to spoil our perfect world with their mass destruction rainbows and their absolutely oppressive ideas about freedom of choice and right to self-determination/ development and fulfillment in life. They spread their anti Islamic ideas of self-development, making us change our perfected concept of what is normal (because we have decided what normal is according to some statistics and an absolutely human-made limited vision of biology), and they go and dare to say we are oppressing them 

They want to infect God?s creation with their corruptive fallacy of exception and third sex stuff and the worst one: respect others!  That is why God decided to destroy whole cities, with children and innocent people in them, because there were gay people in there 

We must stop them! They multiply every day and they live their lives shameless and openly  ! They dare and move around us trying to impersonate good people in the pursuit of a supposed better world of understanding, equality, non-discrimination blablabla. Because it is not important if he/she is a good person, believes in God, makes good deeds, promotes peace, respects God?s Creation (starting from the creation of him/herself being homosexual), the only important thing is whom he/she is sleeping with

They go and ask for rights! Equal rights! 

Wars are going on, children are being abussed in this world, we are killing the planet, slavery is still a fact, morality is disappearing, racism is increasing and the name of God is being used for atrocity and madness, but we, as believers, must concentrate and target the most important group of wrongdoers: homosexuals! 

Iblis was homosexual! That is for sure 

What an age we are living in! They dare and call us homophobes if we do as we must: express our opinion and interest about other people?s sexual life. We must know who is sleeping with whom  ! Because that is what we are called to do as human kind by the Almighty, the Lord of Human Kind.   

But the Lord of ?alamina forgot that verse about homosexuals. What a pity... the topic is worth a whole surah, isnt it?? Maybe a goat ate it 

Or maybe not. Maybe it is not that important and that is precisely why ?Qur'an does not explicitly penalizes homosexuality? and as believers, we should focus on other more important matters     Dont know, just saying, just MAYBE

7:29 Say: ?My Lord orders justice (...)?

Note: maybe, just maybe, gay promiscuity in the West is to homosexual rights vindication just like mini skirt is to women?s liberation. Just maybe?.

God knows best 

[Amra94]

Still waiting for the liberals to explain what this is talking about:
7:80-81 And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."

[Abdul-Hadi]

Greetings and Peace, all 

Still waiting for the liberals to explain what this is talking about:
7:80-81 And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."

Is approaching *anyone* out of desire/lust okay?

I won't hold my breath waiting for an explanation of "no one has preceded you with from among the worlds." The traditional understanding of the "immorality" being homosexual acts falls flat on its face when confronted with the evidence that homosexual acts existed in society well before (as in over a thousand years before) the people of Lot (peace upon all Prophets). If one wants to look back even further, homosexual acts are depicted in cave paintings over 10,000 years before the people of Lot. Maybe Satan planted physical evidence! 

There are several possibilities to consider: (1) The Qur'an is wrong. (2) The prophet Lot was speaking for himself without knowledge. If this is the case, there is no need to cling to any "moral" arguments regarding homosexuality from someone speaking for themself without Authority (3) Homosexuality is not the immorality being discussed. (4) Some other explanation?

The Almighty did not run out of words. The Almighty is not ashamed be direct in Guidance. It is only people that claim that homosexuality/homosexual acts are somehow wrong.

5:104 And if they are told: "Come to what God has sent down, and to the messenger;" they say: "We are content with what we found our fathers doing." What if their fathers did not know anything nor were they guided?

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, and eyesight, and mind - all these you are responsible for.

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

ALLAH knows best.



~Abdul-Hadi

[Amra94]

(2) The prophet Lot was speaking for himself without knowledge. If this is the case, there is no need to cling to any "moral" arguments regarding homosexuality from someone speaking for themself without Authority.

Prophet Lot was not speaking without authority when he told them theyre transgressing
26:161   For their brother Lot said to them: "Will you not be righteous?"
26:162   "I am to you a trustworthy messenger."
26:163   "So be aware of God and obey me."
26:164   "And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds."
26:165   "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
26:166   "And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."
26:167   They said: "If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out."
26:168   He said: "I am in severe opposition to your acts!"

(3) Homosexuality is not the immorality being discussed.

Then what is??

[Layth]

Peace,

The behavior of the masses and general trends are not our moral compass, nor should they ever be.

Immorality has many forms, and the Book of God has stipulated for us all of those that we should shun and beware of (sex outside marriage, incest, homosexuality, etc.).

Homosexuality has veered its ugly head because that is the current accepted norm. Before it adultery had veered its head and has now been embraced with people living together with no marriage certificate and children being born out of wedlock ('bastard' has become 'love child' in the mental process). Pedophiles are also beginning to come up more and more, however, the society does not yet seem ready for this one so it might need to wait a bit...

Stay on the 'yellow brick road'.

[Man of Faith]

If two persons live together in a union, this is a marriage whether this is "on a paper" or not. Going to the authorities and getting it on a paper is a formality. Leaving such a relationship is a divorce and is a serious step, however.

God is not a God with rituals.

Pedophilia is probably not going to be accepted ever. Those of whose mind is working see it is cruel.

Homosexuality is innate in nature and some people are born with that alignment and this is nothing any of us can do anything about except perhaps by brain surgery, but how much did lobotomy help its subjects? Being upset about this is not thinking objectively about it. Nowadays the phenomenon is less of a stigma and the liberated people who are homosexual tend to arrange so-called Pride-festivals to highlight it. Personally I find it exaggerated to display the natural anomaly so much, but this is up to them.

Promiscuity is a sin and this is because it is "supercharging" the instinct, but how much does it matter in an already instinctive human?

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

[Aries]

Peace all 

Still waiting for the liberals to explain what this is talking about:
7:80-81 And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."

RED Lut's people invented homosexuality   

GREEN Lust/ sexual desire in that verse is shahwatan. You will see this root in many other places:


16:57 And they assign daughters to God; be He glorified; and to them is what they desire.

What do they desire about daughters? 

21:102 They shall not hear the slightest sound from it, and they will be in what their souls desires abiding therein.

41:31 "We are your allies in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. In it you will have anything your soul desires, and in it you will have anything you ask for."

52:22 We will supply them with fruit and meat such as they desire

Paradise is full of lust 

3:14 It has been adorned for people to love the desire of women, and sons, and ornaments made from gold and silver, and trained horses, and livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with God is the best abode.

First time i hear about chrysophilia in that lusty way 

Now note the verse, for example, about the woman who tried to seduce Yusuf, 12:23, no hint of this root used in 7:81

Peace,
The behavior of the masses and general trends are not our moral compass, nor should they ever be.

neither the opposite

The Almighty did not run out of words. The Almighty is not ashamed be direct in Guidance. It is only people that claim that homosexuality/homosexual acts are somehow wrong.

5:104 And if they are told: "Come to what God has sent down, and to the messenger;" they say: "We are content with what we found our fathers doing." What if their fathers did not know anything nor were they guided?

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, and eyesight, and mind - all these you are responsible for.

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

ALLAH knows best.



~Abdul-Hadi

God bless you all 

[huruf]

We humans tend to scatter in useless rantings forever en secondary matters over which we have no command and discuss its rightness or wrongness as if it was a matter of life and dead.

The talk about homosexuality seems to be one of the great stars of the "discussion firmament" never to get anywhere.

Why not start at more basic thing swhich we do not even touch except to dispatch them s lready solved and plain and understood.

What is sex, what does it mean. Humanity is of two sexes, perfect or imperfect in each person, but of two sexes. We havemade a mess of that and we carry on without considering and then start on secondary things like "homo", "hetero", "bi", which are our own inventions.

I imgine that this question must be a top consumer of bandwidth.

Poor Lut , I guess, could not imagine that the would be so handy for endless debates. However he deserves better than that. He is an endearing person, like Ibrahim, trying to protect his people in very hard circumstances in all his sincere simplicity and faithfullness. He deserves better than being used in discussion contests.

Salaam

[Abdul-Hadi]

Greetings and Peace, all 

Prophet Lot was not speaking without authority when he told them theyre transgressing
26:161   For their brother Lot said to them: "Will you not be righteous?"
26:162   "I am to you a trustworthy messenger."
26:163   "So be aware of God and obey me."
26:164   "And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds."
26:165   "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
26:166   "And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."
26:167   They said: "If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out."
26:168   He said: "I am in severe opposition to your acts!"
Then what is??

29:29 "You approach the males, and you sever the way, and you bring all vice into your place." But the only response from his people was to say: "Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!"

There are several vices mentioned, but it seems likely that the people of Lot (peace upon all prophets) were punished for tempting the Almighty.

2:134 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.
2:141 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.

The above ayat reference Abraham and other Patriarchs. Abraham was of the time of Lot; Abraham was Lot's uncle and they even traveled together. Abraham was made aware of the impending destruction of the people of Lot.

11:74 So when the shock left Abraham, and the good news was delivered to him, he began to argue with Us for the people of Lot.

There is a command not to forbid what is not prohibited--is it necessary to reference this? Was the Almighty ashamed to tell us "Homosexual acts are bad, don't do them?" That can be found in hadith maybe, but it sure isn't in AQ. Maybe the topic is so "icky" that it had to be approached in a subtle way? 

There are things that we can learn from the example of the people of Lot. Using it to justify bias isn't one of those things. Don't worry, nobody is gonna "catch the ghey" by not interfering with the lives of other consenting adults.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.



~Abdul-Hadi

[Neptin]

If two persons live together in a union, this is a marriage whether this is "on a paper" or not. Going to the authorities and getting it on a paper is a formality. Leaving such a relationship is a divorce and is a serious step, however.

God is not a God with rituals.

Pedophilia is probably not going to be accepted ever. Those of whose mind is working see it is cruel.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

Peace, Man of Faith

Please what is your understanding of the following verses pertaining to the people of Lot: Quran 26:165-166. Again and again, I have read it, the only fitting interpretation I can find is that it deal with gays. The men of Lot's societies were approaching men as they approach women, their natural mate.

You seem to hold a strong enthusiasm for the Bible. So, I have brought a couple of verses from Leveticus 18:22
?Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Homosexuality is innate in nature and some people are born with that alignment and this is nothing any of us can do anything about except perhaps by brain surgery, but how much did lobotomy help its subjects? Being upset about this is not thinking objectively about it. Nowadays the phenomenon is less of a stigma and the liberated people who are homosexual tend to arrange so-called Pride-festivals to highlight it. Personally I find it exaggerated to display the natural anomaly so much, but this is up to them.

Promiscuity is a sin and this is because it is "supercharging" the instinct, but how much does it matter in an already instinctive human?

If we agree that the scriptures disapprove romantic/sexual relationship within the same gender, then the Lord would never cause any man to be born with gay alignment and thus, being gay is definitely a choice.In that case, homosexuals may benefit from psychotherapy session, there doesn't have to be brain surgery.