My thougths about Islam

[zonor]

I was born and raised in a Western country by North Africans, sunni muslim parents. When I was young in my perspective my parents were the voice of god, so when they say that something is prohibited I simply followed those instruction as I still wasn't able to acknowledge those rulesby myself. It wasn't that great as I was pretty alone in this duality of muslim/western guy. Yes there where other muslims in masjed where I was forced to go but still I took the priority to integrate in the western culture, whitout go against those rules my parents tought me. It was hard. So this thing went for pretty all my young age, nor I did bad things nor I was sure if god exists as I felt brainwashed.

But it came a time where I had to take my responsability and be an actor of my religios life, and so I started salat and lurking in muslim sites where I learned a lot of things. There were times where those things didn't go along with my morality and logic but in general I had faith, a blind one. So, as I said, when I was kid the others were christians and there wasn't a lot of debate, but then they became atheists and I started to feel the need to defend myself from their attacks. And I started to use logic as that is the only language that they would understand. That's the period where my faith was going to crumble the most.

I started to question reality and muslim countries. Why they aren't like the western countries? There is war, poverty and so on...  Isn't islam the true religion? Why god would allow something like this? So I studied a little bit of history and lernead that it wasn't always that way.In fact when the west had its dark age muslim countries had their golden age, where they were curious about the world and started to do science and so on and so forth. But then something changed.
It may not be a single cause for this decline but rather multiple. They had the Mongol invasion, the spain reconquest and of course the witch-hunt of philosophers. After that we came to the last century and after the colony period they started to reject western culture and it's like the islam of today is only about that: anti-western-culture ideology.


Then I discovered about hadith and obviously I rejected them as that would be a solution of the decline of islam. As a truth seeker I was hoping that rejecting hadith I would have reached a more pure version of islam but that wasn't the case. Even with quran only islam there are multiple views on many key aspects of this religion.
And I was so confused about that becasue I felt the need to find some authentic truth to finally start living seriously my life without any doubt.
So even with only quran there were debates of the meaning of single words. I really felt the truth go away another time. I started to feel that as a human being i'm not enough to fully understand the messange of god. I would spend years studying quran and I would not get to the same conclusion as others.

But with this thought it came a possibility. We are imperfect creature in an imperfect world. So even if the quran is perfect we would still read it and process with our mind and come to an imperfect understanding. But if I accept this I would get to a very wonderful conclusion. That I can interpret quran through my own ideology. I know it's sound like blasphemy but still it is an inevitable thing that all human beings conscious or unconscious do. So if there is some passage that don't get along with my human morality maybe there is an interpretation that would fit in. I know that this sounds like hypocrisy and means that there would be a lot versions of islam but that is exactly what this forum tought me. No one here, even through the purest form of islam has come to the same conclusions.

I mean there are quranist who think that there are 3 salat, other 5 and also who think that salat is not an actual ritual. And we would debate infinitely and never come to the same conclusion. The quran is not like math where we all would agree that 2+2 = 4, instead it explains a lot of complex things that our minds would process and inevitably come to different conclusions. Maybe and probably god expected this.

Why all this, why would I fit quran to my own "agenda"? Because of faith. It was pretty easy to reject hadith, but quran? If there are passages of quran that I can't get along my faith would crumble. I dont say that I will fit quran understanding to follow my basic human instinct and go with hookers or start drinking alchool etc. But there are things like homosexuality were I wouldn't accept that god create them to suffer. They also have the right to be happy. I will not judge them if they want to marry eachother, I'm a simple human being, I would not judge them because reading quran with my imprefect mind I get to the conclusion that homosexuality is a bad thing. I will not judge anyone in this world, I will not see with an air of superiority those who follow wrong religions because from their perspective they aren't. Maybe I would question their morality but not their beliefs.

So why I wrote all this? I'm seeking approval? Maybe. I would like to know if anyone think the same way I do and if there is an interpretation of quran that support this thesis.

I apologize for my bad English and please go easy with me, I'm at the beginning of my journey!

[good logic]

Peace zonor.
Welcome.
Can I summarise your post in few words from Qoran?;
"And do not rush with Qoran before "inspiration/explanation/wahyuhu" comes to you,and say GOD increase my knowledge".

Like you say we are on different journeys,hopefully going to the same destination. Qoran is the light that is shining your path and the  controller of the brightness of that light is GOD. The brighter it shines the better you see the path. And of course the opposite is true,the dimmer the light,the less you see the path...Of course your intentions,thoughts.decisions,action are taken into consideration by your Creator to increase/decrease your light.

Keep up your study and trust in GOD to keep guiding you. GOD s promise that the true believer will attain certainty.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Wakas]

peace,

Welcome to the forum.

You may find this post helpful:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602160.msg274511#msg274511

[reel]

It is probably better if you go back to sects.

[Cerberus]

Welcome friend, I have a couple of questions for you:

What is your reasoning behind 'everyone has the right to be happy' ?

What is your reasoning behind 'homosexuality isn't a bad thing' ?

[zonor]

Peace zonor.
Welcome.
Can I summarise your post in few words from Qoran?;
"And do not rush with Qoran before "inspiration/explanation/wahyuhu" comes to you,and say GOD increase my knowledge".

Like you say we are on different journeys,hopefully going to the same destination. Qoran is the light that is shining your path and the  controller of the brightness of that light is GOD. The brighter it shines the better you see the path. And of course the opposite is true,the dimmer the light,the less you see the path...Of course your intentions,thoughts.decisions,action are taken into consideration by your Creator to increase/decrease your light.

Keep up your study and trust in GOD to keep guiding you. GOD s promise that the true believer will attain certainty.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thank you for your words of encouragement and support. I really appreciate it.

peace,

Welcome to the forum.

You may find this post helpful:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602160.msg274511#msg274511

Thats it! I'm a little bit suriprised but that's actually what I was seeking for. Your concept of "internal distinguishing mechanisms" in quran verses is just astonishing. I also agree to your assumption that "all forms of communication can potentially be misunderstood by the receiver" you posted here: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598855.msg215800#msg215800

If you have more about this subject, please share.

Welcome friend, I have a couple of questions for you:

What is your reasoning behind 'everyone has the right to be happy' ?

What is your reasoning behind 'homosexuality isn't a bad thing' ?

Well, I studied the matter and I came to the conclusion that it's not any sort of disease. Also I'm a very empathic person and if I was born gay and the quran says that that's wrong and that I can't marry a person of the same sex that would be just awful and I would be unhappy. Also noting that forcing an homosexual to marry an opposite sex person is like forcing  an eterosexual doing the same exact thing with a same sex person.
However this is not the topic of this thread so I will not respond to any other releated questions.

[OnlyOneGod]

I was born and raised in a Western country by North Africans, sunni muslim parents. When I was young in my perspective my parents were the voice of god, so when they say that something is prohibited I simply followed those instruction as I still wasn't able to acknowledge those rulesby myself. It wasn't that great as I was pretty alone in this duality of muslim/western guy. Yes there where other muslims in masjed where I was forced to go but still I took the priority to integrate in the western culture, whitout go against those rules my parents tought me. It was hard. So this thing went for pretty all my young age, nor I did bad things nor I was sure if god exists as I felt brainwashed.

But it came a time where I had to take my responsability and be an actor of my religios life, and so I started salat and lurking in muslim sites where I learned a lot of things. There were times where those things didn't go along with my morality and logic but in general I had faith, a blind one. So, as I said, when I was kid the others were christians and there wasn't a lot of debate, but then they became atheists and I started to feel the need to defend myself from their attacks. And I started to use logic as that is the only language that they would understand. That's the period where my faith was going to crumble the most.

I started to question reality and muslim countries. Why they aren't like the western countries? There is war, poverty and so on...  Isn't islam the true religion? Why god would allow something like this? So I studied a little bit of history and lernead that it wasn't always that way.In fact when the west had its dark age muslim countries had their golden age, where they were curious about the world and started to do science and so on and so forth. But then something changed.
It may not be a single cause for this decline but rather multiple. They had the Mongol invasion, the spain reconquest and of course the witch-hunt of philosophers. After that we came to the last century and after the colony period they started to reject western culture and it's like the islam of today is only about that: anti-western-culture ideology.


Then I discovered about hadith and obviously I rejected them as that would be a solution of the decline of islam. As a truth seeker I was hoping that rejecting hadith I would have reached a more pure version of islam but that wasn't the case. Even with quran only islam there are multiple views on many key aspects of this religion.
And I was so confused about that becasue I felt the need to find some authentic truth to finally start living seriously my life without any doubt.
So even with only quran there were debates of the meaning of single words. I really felt the truth go away another time. I started to feel that as a human being i'm not enough to fully understand the messange of god. I would spend years studying quran and I would not get to the same conclusion as others.

But with this thought it came a possibility. We are imperfect creature in an imperfect world. So even if the quran is perfect we would still read it and process with our mind and come to an imperfect understanding. But if I accept this I would get to a very wonderful conclusion. That I can interpret quran through my own ideology. I know it's sound like blasphemy but still it is an inevitable thing that all human beings conscious or unconscious do. So if there is some passage that don't get along with my human morality maybe there is an interpretation that would fit in. I know that this sounds like hypocrisy and means that there would be a lot versions of islam but that is exactly what this forum tought me. No one here, even through the purest form of islam has come to the same conclusions.

I mean there are quranist who think that there are 3 salat, other 5 and also who think that salat is not an actual ritual. And we would debate infinitely and never come to the same conclusion. The quran is not like math where we all would agree that 2+2 = 4, instead it explains a lot of complex things that our minds would process and inevitably come to different conclusions. Maybe and probably god expected this.

Why all this, why would I fit quran to my own "agenda"? Because of faith. It was pretty easy to reject hadith, but quran? If there are passages of quran that I can't get along my faith would crumble. I dont say that I will fit quran understanding to follow my basic human instinct and go with hookers or start drinking alchool etc. But there are things like homosexuality were I wouldn't accept that god create them to suffer. They also have the right to be happy. I will not judge them if they want to marry eachother, I'm a simple human being, I would not judge them because reading quran with my imprefect mind I get to the conclusion that homosexuality is a bad thing. I will not judge anyone in this world, I will not see with an air of superiority those who follow wrong religions because from their perspective they aren't. Maybe I would question their morality but not their beliefs.

So why I wrote all this? I'm seeking approval? Maybe. I would like to know if anyone think the same way I do and if there is an interpretation of quran that support this thesis.

I apologize for my bad English and please go easy with me, I'm at the beginning of my journey!

Salaam, To be honest I think very much like you. I also believe that we don't need to pass judgment on people like homosexuals, but I also go further, I believe we should also not be passing judgment on the non-believers. Allah did not create the majority of human life just to be destined for hellfire simply because they do not believe in what we believe. That would be against the creators claim of being the "Most just the most merciful". Even at the time of the Prophet or a 100 years after his death, the message of the Quran was not spread to all people and all nations. Many people in those nations lived and died without ever really understanding the Quranic call just like millions lived and died after that without getting the message. Even if some people do get to read the Quranic message and they still don't accept it with their heart because they don't get inspired by it, then how can we blame such people. Why would such people be doomed to an eternity of torture just for having a different opinion on things that are based on the unseen.

[OnlyOneGod]

It is probably better if you go back to sects.

Why would you say that to him?

[A Submitter]

What part of the Western culture and "ideology" would you like to see in  Middle East, East Asia and North Africa?
Describe with details as I like to envision this.

Welcome btw

[zonor]

Salaam, To be honest I think very much like you. I also believe that we don't need to pass judgment on people like homosexuals, but I also go further, I believe we should also not be passing judgment on the non-believers. Allah did not create the majority of human life just to be destined for hellfire simply because they do not believe in what we believe. That would be against the creators claim of being the "Most just the most merciful". Even at the time of the Prophet or a 100 years after his death, the message of the Quran was not spread to all people and all nations. Many people in those nations lived and died without ever really understanding the Quranic call just like millions lived and died after that without getting the message. Even if some people do get to read the Quranic message and they still don't accept it with their heart because they don't get inspired by it, then how can we blame such people. Why would such people be doomed to an eternity of torture just for having a different opinion on things that are based on the unseen.

I totally releate to this.

What part of the Western culture and "ideology" would you like to see in  Middle East, East Asia and North Africa?
Describe with details as I like to envision this.

Welcome btw

Democracy, universal values, civil society, liberty, media independence.