Author Topic: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir  (Read 844 times)

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Gender: Female
Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« on: June 29, 2017, 01:34:40 PM »
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 3345
  • Gender: Male
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 03:30:22 PM »
i just start reading that book..

sounds interesting i beleive i will carry on studying..

thanx for share
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1388
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2017, 11:11:38 PM »
Just in case someone wants to study this:

https://www.slideshare.net/kingabid/symmetric-book-noble-quran

peace, the above is only flipping verse counts which early scribes used as a checksum to keep count/prevent errors and likewise for easy reference which ~100 years after revelation (or more still investigating) different checksum system/verse counts were used.

see topic: verse numbering early manuscripts
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609944.msg411582;topicseen#msg411582

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Gender: Female
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 08:13:01 PM »
peace, the above is only flipping verse counts which early scribes used as a checksum to keep count/prevent errors and likewise for easy reference which ~100 years after revelation (or more still investigating) different checksum system/verse counts were used.

see topic: verse numbering early manuscripts
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609944.msg411582;topicseen#msg411582

Did you get to find any old Quran that has all the chapters? I certainly do not find your explanation convincing because one needs a huge huge amount of time to do that complicated arrangement.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1388
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 06:58:27 AM »
Did you get to find any old Quran that has all the chapters? I certainly do not find your explanation convincing because one needs a huge huge amount of time to do that complicated arrangement.

peace, there are enough old manuscripts to reconstruct and if for the first few hundred years manuscripts consistently didn't count initials as separate verses then have to question when was current arrangement adapted?

likewise not complicated numerous combinations have similar symmetry e.g. add/remove any even # of verses in below 57 chapters

1 7
2 286
4 176
9 129
11 123
13 43
14 52
15 99
16 128
17 111
18 110
22 78
24 64
25 77
27 93
28 88
29 69
30 60
32 30
33 73
34 54
35 45
38 88
39 75
43 89
45 37
56 96
57 29
58 22
63 11
64 18
66 12
68 52
70 44
72 28
74 56
78 40
80 42
81 29
87 19
88 26
90 20
91 15
93 11
94 8
97 5
98 8
101 11
102 8
103 3
105 5
106 4
107 7
111 5
112 4
113 5
114 6

e.g. delete any 2 verses from ch 9 like 128-129 present in early manuscripts

http://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/9/vers/129/handschrift/878

ch vrs ch+v 57 even 57 odd
1 7 8 
...
9 127 136
...
114 6 120
 
6555 6234 12789 6234 6555

60 even # verses 54 odd # verses
30 even-even 30 odd-even 27 odd-odd 27 even-odd

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Gender: Female
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 06:18:24 AM »
peace, there are enough old manuscripts to reconstruct and if for the first few hundred years manuscripts consistently didn't count initials as separate verses then have to question when was current arrangement adapted?

 

That's what I was expecting. But are you using reference from multiple manuscripts (Quran books) or one? I wouldn't use anything which has bits and pieces.

Quote
likewise not complicated numerous combinations have similar symmetry e.g. add/remove any even # of verses in below 57 chapters
The structure is complicated in the sense that even after the arrangements they fit the context in the chapters.
I haven't found a single mullah who has idea about the structure. As we know, they use their secondary sources to analyze the preservation. But if each Quran despite having verses arranged differently show symmetry independently then I suppose we know who is actually protecting it. You have provided a great clue.

"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1388
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 11:52:14 AM »
That's what I was expecting. But are you using reference from multiple manuscripts (Quran books) or one? I wouldn't use anything which has bits and pieces.

peace, what does it matter if text matches back then and today?





The structure is complicated in the sense that even after the arrangements they fit the context in the chapters.
...
But if each Quran despite having verses arranged differently show symmetry independently then I suppose we know who is actually protecting it. You have provided a great clue.

It's not complex and similar symmetry happens with numerous combinations e.g. ch 9 only 3 verses, or 5, or 7, or 9, ... or 127, or 129, or 131, or 133, etc. to infinity and likewise the same with 56 other chapters. Looking at earliest manuscripts it's evident current verse counts were implemented a few hundred years after revelation or perhaps even a thousand years! Not sure if understood or looked into it; early manuscripts which match today's text had different verse counts not all symmetrical e.g. initials chapter 42:1-3 counted as a single verse...

42:1 حم ha meem 42:2 عسق ayn seen qaf 42:3 كذلك like such ىوحى inspired الىك to you والى and toward الذىن the ones من from قبلك before you الله the god العزىز the mighty الحكىم the wise








Mist

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Gender: Male
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 10:53:38 PM »
<<<

15:09   Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

So Noon, preserved eh?

Looking at earliest manuscripts it's evident current verse counts were implemented a few hundred years after revelation or perhaps even a thousand years!

41:42   No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from One Most Wise, Praiseworthy.

Noon, your manuscripts are not pure, have some respect towards our Creator. If numerology is what drives you, then you're indeed lost.

reel

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Gender: Female
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 12:38:21 AM »
peace, what does it matter if text matches back then and today?

What Mist showed:
<<<

15:09   Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.




It's not complex and similar symmetry happens with numerous combinations e.g. ch 9 only 3 verses, or 5, or 7, or 9, ... or 127, or 129, or 131, or 133, etc. to infinity and likewise the same with 56 other chapters. Looking at earliest manuscripts it's evident current verse counts were implemented a few hundred years after revelation or perhaps even a thousand years!

Not sure if understood or looked into it; early manuscripts which match today's text had different verse counts not all symmetrical e.g. initials chapter 42:1-3 counted as a single verse...

Something far less complicated has thousands of books dedicated to it and that's called debit and credit system. The field is accounting. I don't think you will understand the value of the structure if you do not experience what it is to like do accounting in a ledger.

But where are the books talking about the symmetry of Quran? Why no mullah knows about this structure and why do they depend on hadiths to know about the preservation? It doesn't matter when the verse counts were implemented. What matters is whether each early book showed the symmetry or not. No number next to verses? Count the lines then and compare them. But for that you'll need the fully intact Quran from the ancient time.

Then again, is it worth the time since memorization of Quran is a piece of cake? I haven't forgotten the chapters taught to me orally at age 5. I recite them still in the same way. Long gaps don't erase them from the memory. The history of the book sounds quite unrealistic when we consider the memorization thing.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1388
Re: Symmetric Book Noble Quran by Prof. Ayedmir
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 10:02:20 AM »

So Noon, preserved eh?

If numerology is what drives you, then you're indeed lost.

no cannot stand numerologists or trolls pretending to be believers.

likewise in context obviously the word 15:24 المستقدمىن the ones prior









What Mist showed:

But where are the books talking about the symmetry of Quran?

peace, you've not looked into it "symmetry" is simpleton numerology with numerous combinations.