Author Topic: Ramadan is spiritual retreat, 3 days, in the 7th full moon after march equinox  (Read 15199 times)

reel

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The prophet who was not speaking 3 days in September.

It was Zacharie. let's try to proove it.

First, let's remember that in equinox days, laylatou al qadr:

97:3 The Equinox is better than one thousand Full moons.
97:4 The angels and the Spirit come down in it with the permission of their Lord to carry out every matter.

When Zachariah asked god for a child, and god accepted, Zachariah asked for a sign.
this sign is mentioned in two verses:

3:41 He said: ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said: ?Your sign is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and remember your Lord greatly, and glorify at dusk and dawn.?
19:10 He said: ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said: ?Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights consecutively.?

Three nights or three days ? What was the sign ?
Unless we admit this a an error in quran and Allah forgot what sign he gave, we have to accept that Zachariah was already making siyyam of speaking during the day and Allah completed the nights. It is the only way to solve the problem.

Zachariah was  then fasting 3 days, that is no speaking.

Now let's proove that it was in Spetember. It is more difficult.

Oh God, something came in my head. I think its traces still exist in some religions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

imrankhawaja

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2:187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray yourselves so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God's boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His signs clear to the people that they may be righteous

RED now its lawfull in night to approach women.. (days of soum)
GREEN it was clear before the current law people use to sexually approach their women due to the human nature of sex hunger .
BLUE its bit tricky  eat and drink(consume) ?  either its general food or sex hunger in both cases do it untill the changing of sky colors..
BROWN complete the fast untill night ( do not sexually approach them untill night)
NAVY even when you are (akifoon in masjid) do not appraoch your women.. (this point need discussion)

all that time the only restriction in all of the verse is to stop doing sex in day light hours ..

now lets see what is eat and drink either its food or just a idiomatic term used for enjoyment..

let say وكلوا واشربوا = consume/enjoy/get satisfied fully it can be anything .. food , sex, travelling, drinking wine, riding horse, living in posh houses, cloths wearing...

so you can enjoy fully anything of it and idiomatically we use this word ..

according to the context the consumption is regarding sex , so before the dawn do it like 3 4 or 5 times so that you get fully satisified with sex hunger so finish that sex hunger untill the night...  :rotfl: :brickwall: (sorry guys for detailing it according to my own lens)

now sometimes the answer of your probelmeitc points lies with in next verses...  we are hunting our BLUE point right now

lets put it on test and see what next verse is saying...

2:188 And do not تاكلوا eat your money between you unjustly by bribing the decision makers so that you may eat a part of the money of other people sinfully while you know!

the exact same root is used there for eating or consuming or enjoying or taking .... تاكلوا

so with respect to that the blue point is clear now.. with cross referencing of quran..

there are some parts of world where  sunlight hours are long like hell its illogical to be hungrey for about 20 hours
if you are hungry your modd will get off , then you start doing trouble
if you are hungry you try to dishonest with your duties at work
if you are hungey its difficult to do work that required continious energy like labour work in hot desert..
lot more things..

NOTE (all these are my personal understandings everybody need to verify it as per 17:36)

i just highlight the point what i have with fasting such a long hours



siwto

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"Sana=Lunar Month

The argument is based on verse 29-14 where it said that Noah is still between his people 1000 sana less 50 aam (years). Understanding of Sana=lunar month leads to a tota duration of 33 years while understanding of sana year or equivalent (12 lunar month) leads to a duration of 950 years.

We have same problem with verse 18-25 where people of cavern stayed 309 sana, which is exactly 25 solar years instead of the classical understanding of 309 years."

Salam to all and welcome
 
I agree with NOON WALQALAM that it does not the translation of "sana" as lunar month  because in this case the verse 46:16 will be sensless to mean that we are responsible for our self at the age of 3 AAM = Solar years! 3=40X25/309!
Siwto

reel

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the exact same root is used there for eating or consuming or enjoying or taking .... تاكلوا

so with respect to that the blue point is clear now.. with cross referencing of quran..

there are some parts of world where  sunlight hours are long like hell its illogical to be hungrey for about 20 hours
if you are hungry your modd will get off , then you start doing trouble
if you are hungry you try to dishonest with your duties at work
if you are hungey its difficult to do work that required continious energy like labour work in hot desert..
lot more things..

NOTE (all these are my personal understandings everybody need to verify it as per 17:36)

i just highlight the point what i have with fasting such a long hours

Thank God, you see what I have been seeing. Every time I want to talk about this I notice people get very defensive.  They don't want to hear that they might be causing inconvenience to others. Now I have not seen a verse in which God tells us to be risky for the surrounding people. I can no more see any logic in some of the excuses given to me about the alleged fasting.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

noshirk

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I agree with NOON WALQALAM that it does not the translation of "sana" as lunar month  because in this case the verse 46:16 will be sensless to mean that we are responsible for our self at the age of 3 AAM = Solar years! 3=40X25/309!
Siwto

46-15 is not saying what you said.

40 years is too old for what verse says. And what to do between 30 "ashor " and 40 years ?
Chiddatou is not rochd (wiseness)
40 lunars month is a good age for first pray to Allah.


Peace
noshirk=trying to never mix teachings of The unique Rabb with other teachings, and specially any kind of clerical teachings.

noshirk

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salaam

One of the teachings of Hajj and Omra is that people making Omra have to fast from speaking to let Hojjajs debate at a good level.

my opinion is that free-minds administrators have to remark that people making Omra are making too much noise here and Hojjajs escaped away.
i hope that they will find a way to better organize the hajj in this "blessed web site"  ;)

Peace
noshirk=trying to never mix teachings of The unique Rabb with other teachings, and specially any kind of clerical teachings.

imrankhawaja

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Thank God, you see what I have been seeing. Every time I want to talk about this I notice people get very defensive.  They don't want to hear that they might be causing inconvenience to others. Now I have not seen a verse in which God tells us to be risky for the surrounding people. I can no more see any logic in some of the excuses given to me about the alleged fasting.

aww reel , ramdhan mubarak, hope u doing good.

actually i redeem from fasting three years ago.. becuause i preferred second option(feeding poor) as i felt difficulty in keeping long fasts in uk ..

but this year i dnt have any money left for charity  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

then i look properly the verses and suddenly this thing come in my mind and then i read next verse things get more clear..and finally i m fasting ..

becoz i m single  :rotfl: :rotfl: i dntneed to give charity otherwise i would be in trouble that i missed the fasts as well as charity..

God i love u really

reel

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aww reel , ramdhan mubarak, hope u doing good.

actually i redeem from fasting three years ago.. becuause i preferred second option(feeding poor) as i felt difficulty in keeping long fasts in uk

My sectarian aunt has been doing that since I guess the 80s because her kids don't fast.

but this year i dnt have any money left for charity  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You can do charity by doing volunteer work  :)
Money is not always needed.

then i look properly the verses and suddenly this thing come in my mind and then i read next verse things get more clear..and finally i m fasting ..

becoz i m single  :rotfl: :rotfl: i dntneed to give charity otherwise i would be in trouble that i missed the fasts as well as charity..

God i love u really



In that sense I am fasting too. In fact, I talk to my fiance only after breaking the fast because that's when he is at home from work.....!

I noticed something from Joseph Islam from the link of Wakas:

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Question 1:
Assuming your fifth reference to be 2:187, you have missed 2:60 where 'kulu wa-ishrabu' is used. In this verse there is clear mention where Prophet Moses asked for water (istasqa) and 12 springs gushed forth and everyone knew of their 'dinking place' (mashrabahum) and then God says 'kulu wa'ishrabu' from God's provisions (rizq). Do you still think that 'kul' and 'ishrab' here fits in completely with your understanding of relax and rejoice?

I know he won't see it. But that question makes me question: How do we eat water?

Quote
Question 2:
You have also missed another crucial phrase "kulli wa isharabi" in 19:26. The only difference between this and the ones you have noted is that the phrase 19:26 makes use of refers to a female . So, having noted this verse in conjunction with the previous verses which refer to 'rutab' (fresh dates - 19:25) and 'sariyaa' (stream - 19:24), [food and a drink] do you still think that 'kul' and 'ishrab' fits in completely with your understanding of relax and rejoice?

I feel sad that he is not looking at the entire verse 19:26.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

jkhan

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So you mean Siyyam is merely abstinence from speaking to others and involvement of pure intention of God by being in a secluded place from dawn to dusk..

But i strongly not your comment denial of eat and drink.. if so why God used eat and drink "Haththa' until white thread is clear from black thread... doesn't it mean stop eating and drinking when you come to that point.. Quran definitely order to fast 3 days of every visible full moon and abstain from eat and drink during day till night fall but abstinence of eat and drink is not the only only thing.. but to abstain from various other worldly matters which we normally do and probably seclude to privacy the most of the time..

What to say????

jkhan

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in addition to that,, Allah orders for errors and of people to fast consecutive 60 days.. and further says it is a punishment for them for their work to feel.. So if fasting 60 days is sort of a punishment, how can it be a  punishment if one just seclude without speaking to any ?  no way unless he or she is deprived of food and drink to during day time for consecutive 60 days.. just imagine with your logic..am i correct?

Even i believe whoever recorded the order or revelation it is correct.. order of revelation of chapter 2 where fasting is mentioned as an act which makes a person pious is revealed as 87th order of revelation.. whatever of fasting (as an act) mentioned in the quran is appearing after 87th revelation and not before 87th.. this is clear that even these punishments of fasting or during haj were revealed after 2:183-2:187.. Because if allah not define the time of fasting how even as a punishment they would fast.. Allah is very specific.. just think about it deeply.. In quran the mere word fasting (not order to fast) would have appeared before chapter 2 :183 -2:187.. it's fine because no ordering..

Study and let me know...