Author Topic: Ramadhan 2:185  (Read 2914 times)

A Submitter

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2017, 06:45:11 AM »
Quran has a lunar-solar calender.
If it's merely solar or lunar and not both, we wouldn't know the timing of Ramadhan and we wouldn't know when the 1 extra lunar month is.

Apart from that, "hot moon" doesn't make any sense. Full moon is not equal to hot moon. In fact, your conclusion is contradicting 2:189 because in this verse the crescents are a timing mechanism and not full moons;

2:189     
They ask you regarding the crescents, say: ?They provide a timing
mechanism
for the people and the Pilgrimage.? And piety is not
that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever
is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And
be aware of God that you may succeed.

And here we learn that the month begins with the first appearance of waxing crescent and not full moon. In your reasoning, the month would begin with full moon which contradicts 36:39.

36:39     
And the moon We have measured it to appear in stages, until it
returns like an old palm sheath.

Salam

jemby97

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 07:49:38 AM »
Salam Submitter.
I am not talking about full moon as being starting of ramadhan.

Pls reread my post.

I am talking about witnessing of full moon as doing your fast the next ONE day only and doing it every month whenever you witness a full moon ie for the next 12 months.

clashncruz

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 07:58:24 AM »
Salaam again jemby,

I still think we are missing a huge point here everyone. In my humble opinion, shahar does not mean full moon, it means month. The 'hu in falyasum'hu  is referring to shahar, the month. Look at the other instances of shahar in the Qur'an, does it seem like it is referring to a full moon? Start here with 58:4:

"But whoever cannot find the means must fast for two consecutive months before they may touch one another. And if he is unable, then the feeding of sixty needy people. This, in order that you affirm your faith in God and His Messenger. These are the ordinances of God. The unbelievers will have a painful punishment." 58:4

This verse is discussing the atonement for wrongly accusing your wife of being her mother, or worse, and clearly states that you will فَصِيَامُ شَهْرَيْنِ fast for two months. And if you cannot fast then you are obliged to feed a poor person for each day of the fast, which is why you must then فَإِطْعَامُ سِتِّينَ مِسْكِينًا feed 60 poor people.

This seems quite clear to me and I am not sure where the discrepancy lies for everyone. Please let me know.

Best regards and Salaam,

Clash.

jemby97

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 08:07:30 AM »
From my understanding of this 2: 185 there is no starting of ramadhan and no ending of ramadhan b'cos it refers to one person singular, ie the one witnessing the full moon should fast the next one day.
For a person living in northern parts like alaska or northern norway etc their summer month has no setting of the sun so they would witness a full moon. So its not obligatory on them. You have to witness it yourself.
Thats my understanding on 2: 185 anyway submitter.
Thanks for reading and responding.

jemby97

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2017, 08:09:28 AM »
Sorry
Would NOT be witnessing.....

jemby97

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2017, 08:24:41 AM »
Salam Clash and thanks for the response.

Hmmmm.... I ve to think about this ....
But.....
Here its talking not just Shahr.... but Sharu ramadhan.....
However I need to think about what you just said....
Thanks again.

farati

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2017, 12:33:39 PM »
In that words 2:185:17 falyasum'hu    'then he should fast' is 3rd person singular.... meaning the person witnessing the full moon should fast the next day only....

Wait, so full moon? Not new moon?
So if the weather is cloudy I skip Ramadan and that is ok?

brook

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2017, 11:33:26 PM »
From my understanding of this 2: 185 there is no starting of ramadhan and no ending of ramadhan b'cos it refers to one person singular, ie the one witnessing the full moon should fast the next one day.
For a person living in northern parts like alaska or northern norway etc their summer month has no setting of the sun so they would witness a full moon. So its not obligatory on them. You have to witness it yourself.
Thats my understanding on 2: 185 anyway submitter.
Thanks for reading and responding.

Hello jemby97.

From MY understanding of
"So whoever witnesses among you the full moon"
refers to ALL the believers who witness it.

As for the timing of ramadhan,
there certainly is a starting and an ending of it.
It starts when people witness the hot full moon (shahr ramadhan)
and ends when the crescent appears after the last quarter.

Duration of fasting is 10 days
b'cos
the change from the full moon to the first crescent
takes 10 days.

Full ----------- quarter -- waning crescent
O ------------>D---------> )

Salem5

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2017, 09:37:49 PM »
Some people think Ramadan is a month is because they are influenced by Hadith and Sunna . The true calendar should be lunar and solar  not only  lunar . The fabricated 'Muslim ' calendar was created years after prophet mohd dies . Therefore Ramadan is not the name of a month. I don't follow their silly calendar anymore and sorry will not follow their way of 1 mth fasting. Witnessing the crescent moon to fast 30 days are the practise of the Sabians and Hindus idolising the moon and incorporated by bukhari . I'll fast 2-3 days during winter solstice or as and when required for health purpose .

brook

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Re: Ramadhan 2:185
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 04:27:23 AM »
36:39     
And the moon We have measured it to appear in stages, until it
returns like an old palm sheath.

36:39 does not say stages only but it says descending stages -مَنَازِلَ.

The phases descend from the full moon
down to the very last crescent
which looks like a curved old palm sheath:

O------------->D----------------->) (in south hemisphere)
Full moon--->last quarter------last waning crescent