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Ramadan

Started by farati, May 14, 2017, 12:57:38 PM

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reel

Quote from: Cerberus on May 14, 2017, 01:54:53 PM
Ramadan is all about working against your body's needs and instincts.

You will not feed your body anything (food & drink)
You will not provide your body of any kind of pleasure. That also include sleeping all day long and being lazy.
You will not follow your negative self into manifesting either gossip, mockery, anger, jealousy, pride...

And this everyday for about 30 days, from dawn until sunset.

From sunset until dawn, you have enough time to rest, and eat and drink. I'd advise drinking small portions of water (and juice) continuously starting from the moment your fast breaks i.e sunset until whenever you are willing to sleep.

You should sleep early because you are physically tired, and because you should probably wake up slightly before dawn to have a final meal and drink. But this one depends on the person, you can make the final preparations slightly before dawn or way before. Best thing to do is to sleep early and wake up early, make your final preparations and start your day.

This by the way, might not perfectly match what quranists believe.

Quite luxurious! Reality is quite different.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Man of Faith

I basically do what Cerberus suggests around the clock, year around.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

brook

Quote from: Noon waalqalami on May 17, 2017, 11:49:48 PMPlausible occurs mid-summer or 1st month after full moon summer solstice...

Definitely.

------1-----------2-------3--------4--------5---------6-------7-------8--------9-------10------11-------12------13
21 Jan 642-20 Feb-22 Mar-20 Apr-19 May-18 Jun-17 Jul-15 Aug-14 Sep-13 Oct-12 Nov-12 Dec
10 Jan 643-09 Feb-11 Mar-10 Apr-09 May-07 Jun-07 Jul-05 Aug-03 Sep-03 Oct-01 Nov-01 Dec-31 Dec
29 Jan 644-28 Feb-29 Mar-27 Apr-27 May-25 Jun-25 Jul-23 Aug-21 Sep-21 Oct-19 Nov-19 Dec
17 Jan 645-16 Feb-18 Mar-16 Apr-16 May-15 Jun-14 Jul-13 Aug-11 Sep-11 Oct-09 Nov-08 Dec
07 Jan 646-05 Feb-07 Mar-05 Apr-05 May-04 Jun-03 Jul-02 Aug-01 Sep-30 Sep-30 Oct-28 Nov-28 Dec
26 Jan 647-24 Feb-26 Mar-24 Apr-24 May-22 Jun-22 Jul-21 Aug-19 Sep-19 Oct-18 Nov-17 Dec


Notes:

1.
Here iddah is
series of the full moons
from Jan to Jan. 

2.
A series of the full moons
is 12 full moons  (9:36)
عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرً

3.
The 354 days of a 12-moon series
fall 11 days shorter than the 365-day solar year,
and this makes the moons come
11 days earlier.

3.
When the 11 days
add up to 29.5 days or more,
a 13th moon appears.

4.
The 13th moon
makes the moons in the next series come
19 days later. 

5.
Time of the full moon
immediately after the summer solstice
is fixed between June 21 and July 21.
That is the shahr ramadan-hot moon.

clashncruz

Salamu Alaykum Brook,

This is a misquote of 9:36. Here is the full beginning of that verse:

إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا
       The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).

Yes 12 months in a year (not 12 full moons by the way, as there can be more than 12), about 30 days each, gives us our Lunar Year. Which is why Ramadan is starting in about 9 days and will go for about 30 days after that insha'Allah.

Again, no one has addressed 58:4 which clearly states that two months of fasting=60 days, therefore logically 1 month of fasting=30 days. I do not see what is so difficult for everyone to understand here. Am I missing something?

Best regards and Salaam,

Clash.


Noon waalqalami

Quote from: clashncruz on May 18, 2017, 09:32:27 AM
This is a misquote of 9:36. Here is the full beginning of that verse:

إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا
       The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).

Peace -- which word is year?

Quote from: clashncruz on May 18, 2017, 09:32:27 AM
Again, no one has addressed 58:4 which clearly states that two months of fasting=60 days, therefore logically 1 month of fasting=30 days. I do not see what is so difficult for everyone to understand here. Am I missing something?

Did you not understand my prior post i.e. # of days fasting does not correlate with feeding # of poor?

58:4 فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىام so fast/abstinence شهرىن shahrayni/lunar cycles two متتابعىن successive two من from قبل before ان that ىتماسا touch dual فمن so who لم not ىستطع able فاطعام so provide sustenance ستىن sixty مسكىنا poor of ...

60 poor = 60 days

quote author=Noon waalqalami link=topic=9609522.msg405045#msg405045 date=1495059216

It doesn't always correlate see below feed (10) poor or if no wherewithal (3) days...

10 poor = 3 days
200 poor = 60 days

5:89 لا not ىواخذكم will call you الله the god باللغو in the idle talk فى in اىمنكم right hands/oaths yours ولكن and however ىواخذكم will call you بما in what عقدتم pledge you الاىمن the right hands/oaths فكفارته so reparation its اطعام provide sustenance عشره tentet (group of ten) مساكىن poor من from اوسط of moderate/middle ما what تطعمون thou feeding اهلىكم families yours او or كسوتهم clothe them او or تحرىر liberate رقبه neck (i.e. slave) فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىام so fast/abstinence ثلاثه trio (i.e. group of three successive) اىام days ذلك such كفاره reparation اىمنكم right hands/oaths yours اذا when حلفتم have sworn you واحفظوا and that guard ye of اىمنكم right hands/oaths yours كذلك like such ىبىن shows الله the god لكم for you اىاته signs his لعلكم that may you تشكرون thanks giving



MissMarple77

Hi everyone,
it would be more useful to look at the context of verse 9:36 and 9:37 together.

9:36 God ordained the months twelve in number when He created the heavens and the earth. Of these, four are sacred, according to the true Faith. Therefore do not sin against yourselves by violating them. But you may fight against the idolaters in all these months, since they themselves fight against you in all of them. Know that God is with the righteous.
9:37 The postponement of sacred months is a grossly impious practice, in which the unbelievers are misguided. They allow it one year and forbid it in the next, so that they may make up for the months which God has sanctified, thus making lawful what God has forbidden. Their foul acts seem fair to them: God does not guide the unbelievers.

There are twelve months, of these four are sacred. In verse 9:37 we are told these sacred months are arbitrarily postponed from year to year.  So the sacred months are recurrent every year. So we have in 9:36 the twelve months of a year. And not twelve full moons, because how can you postpone the full moon? You can only postpone the sacred months.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

brook

Quote from: clashncruz on May 18, 2017, 09:32:27 AM
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا
       The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year).


In 9:36 Allah is saying NOTHING
concerning the solar year
or the lunar year or the luni-solar year
or ANY year system.

All He is saying is
that
number of the full moons is? twelve,
iddat al-shohoor? isn? ashere shahr
.

*

Another thing He is not saying is
that
number of the full moons is NOT thirteen.

Allah is saying...: number of "shahr"s is 12.
He is not saying: it is not, it can NOT be 13.

So it is up to you to check to see
whether it can be thirteen as well.

For example
the iddah of 2018-2019...
can it have 13 full moons?

Here is the times of the full moons of the iddah:

-------1------------2-------3--------4--------5--------6--------7-----------8------------9------10-------11-------12------13
27 Jun 2018-26 Jul-24 Aug-23 Sep-22 Oct-21 Nov-21 Dec-20 Jan 2019-18 Feb-20 Mar-19 Apr-18 May-16 Jun
17 Jul 2019...

You do not have to believe these full moon times,
so count the full moons of 2018-2019 YOURSELF.

Next year start with the June moon when it is full
and go on counting until the July moon of 2019.

Please do that to check for yourself
whether the number is 13 or not.

And think
what becomes of the 12-shahr lunar year
when there are 13 "shahr"s up in the sky?

*

Finally, the word shahr in 9:36...
can it be month (lasting 29.5 days)?
Is it possible?

Ask yourself:

Since the number of the "shahr"s  from June to June/July (that is, a solar year) is 13
and since 13 times 29.5 equals 383.5 days, 
would there be room for those 383.5 days in a 365-day solar year? Is it possible?

clashncruz

Salamu Alaykum Brook,

Yes there can be 13 full moons in a year. It is called a Blue Moon, which is why Shahar means month and not full moon.

"A "Blue Moon" is the name given to the second full moon in a calendar month. Because there are roughly 29.5 days between full moons, it is unusual for two full moons to "fit" into a 30 or 31 day month (and impossible to fit into a 28 or 29 day month, so February can never have a Blue Moon)...In January and March of 1999, we had a situation which only takes place about four times a century: two Blue Moons occurring in the same year. The last time this happened was in January and April of 1961 and it will not happen again until January and March of 2018. " https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/blue_moon.html

Also, still no one has answered about 58:4, which tells us that  2 months of fasting=feeding 60 poor people for the 60 days of the two months; thus, if you did not understand 2:184-2:190, here it is made clear for you that 1 month of fasting (Ramandan)= feeding thirty poor people for the 30 days of the month.

Best regards and Salaam,

Clash.

Noon waalqalami

Quote from: clashncruz on May 18, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Yes there can be 13 full moons in a year. It is called a Blue Moon

Peace, yes correct.

http://astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases2001.html

fullmoon   #   year

Jan   12   1   2017
Feb   11   2   
Mar   12   3   
Apr   11   4   
May   10   5   
Jun   9   6   
Jul   9   1   after summer solstice
Aug   7   2   
Sep   6   3   
Oct   5   4   
Nov   4   5   
Dec   3   6   
Jan   2   7   2018
Jan   31   8   
Mar   2   9   
Mar   31   10   
Apr   30   11   
May   29   12   
Jun   28   1   after solstice
Jul   27   2   
Aug   26   3   
Sep   25   4   
Oct   24   5   
Nov   23   6   
Dec   22   7   
Jan   21   8   2019
Feb   19   9   
Mar   21   10   
Apr   19   11   
May   18   12   
Jun   17   13   

Jul   16   1   after solstice
Aug   15   2   
Sep   14   3   
Oct   13   4   
Nov   12   5   
Dec   12   6   
Jan   10   7   2020
Feb   9   8   
Mar   9   9   
Apr   8   10   
May   7   11   
Jun   5   12   
Jul   5   1   after solstice
         
Quote from: clashncruz on May 18, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Also, still no one has answered about 58:4, which tells us that  2 months of fasting=feeding 60 poor people for the 60 days of the two months; thus, if you did not understand 2:184-2:190, here it is made clear for you that 1 month of fasting (Ramandan)= feeding thirty poor people for the 30 days of the month.

No, already answered you twice see 5:89 feed 10 poor is 3 days hence no correlation -- please confirm you read this?


MissMarple77

Quote from: brook on May 18, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
In 9:36 Allah is saying NOTHING
concerning the solar year
or the lunar year or the luni-solar year
or ANY year system.

All He is saying is
that
number of the full moons is? twelve,
iddat al-shohoor? isn? ashere shahr
.
That's correct that 9:36 and 9:37 says nothing about wether it is a lunar year or a solar year. There are just the twelve months of a year. If it would be translated as "full moons" it would mean a lunar year.
Quote from: brook on May 18, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
Another thing He is not saying is
that
number of the full moons is NOT thirteen.

Allah is saying...: number of "shahr"s is 12.
He is not saying: it is not, it can NOT be 13.
That's not logical. Here is a statement about a certain number. And if there are twelve, it implies, it can not be 13 nor any other number.

Also in verse 2:185 there is no full moon, because the fasting days are in plural, not only one day of the full moon:

Therefore whoever of you is present in that month let from wrong. [2] Therefore whoever of you is present in that month let him fast. But he who is ill or on a journey shall fast A SIMILAR NUMBER OF DAYS later on.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)