Author Topic: Can Ants Talk?  (Read 1543 times)

uq

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2017, 11:40:39 AM »
I make the perfectly reasonable assumption that نَمۡلَة in 27:18 refers to a species in the Formicidae family, i.e. the humble ant.

It is certain that ants communicate using sounds, vibrations, and pheromones. The exact nature of this communication, and its meaning is as yet unknown. Although, it is safe to assume that ants communicate for survival purposes, such as indicating to other ants the location of food, communicating their position in the hierarchy, communicating potential dangers from predators, communicating that they are in need of help, etc. These communications are not unique to ants, they can also be found among bees and birds.

What is important to bear in mind is that the entire lexicon of the ant vocabulary has not yet been decoded. There is still much to learn.

Consider the blackbird. It is not yet known by ornithologists why blackbirds burst into song at the two edges of the day and throughout the two twilights. Consider the sounds it produces. Consider how it chirrups, and chirps, and tweets, and sings. Consider how it produces approximately seven or eight distinct songs every minute. And most importantly, consider how the blackbird has never produced two songs that are the same: each song that the blackbird produces is utterly unique and there has never been a recording of a blackbird singing the same song twice. Consider the magnitude of imaginative capability required to achieve such a feat and ask yourself if you are content with the explanation of random genetic aberrations.

Consider how we know very little, and resign yourself to the Grandest Designer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpEWlmgRxQ

"...and not a thing [exists] except that it glorifies in His praise"
uq

HP_TECH

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2017, 03:35:38 PM »
I make the perfectly reasonable assumption that نَمۡلَة in 27:18 refers to a species in the Formicidae family, i.e. the humble ant.

It is certain that ants communicate using sounds, vibrations, and pheromones. The exact nature of this communication, and its meaning is as yet unknown. Although, it is safe to assume that ants communicate for survival purposes, such as indicating to other ants the location of food, communicating their position in the hierarchy, communicating potential dangers from prey, communicating that they are in need of help, etc. These communications are not unique to ants, they can also be found among bees and birds.

What is important to bear in mind is that the entire lexicon of the ant vocabulary has not yet been decoded. There is still much to learn.

Consider the blackbird. It is not yet known by ornithologists why blackbirds burst into song at the two edges of the day and throughout the two twilights. Consider the sounds it produces. Consider how it chirrups, and chirps, and tweets, and sings. Consider how it produces approximately seven or eight distinct songs every minute. And most importantly, consider how the blackbird has never produced two songs that are the same: each song that the blackbird produces is utterly unique and there has never been a recording of a blackbird singing the same song twice. Consider the magnitude of imaginative capability required to achieve such a feat and ask yourself if you are content with the explanation of random genetic aberrations.

Consider how we know very little, and resign yourself to the Grandest Designer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpEWlmgRxQ

"...and not a thing [exists] except that it glorifies in His praise"

Well said uq.

Awesome of you to bring up the blackbird and its unique and intricate bird vocalization.
In my Evolutionary Biology course I was relentlessly unsatisfied with the haphazard explanations.
Most, if not all, of evolution(macroevolution), is ironically parsimony.


21:79 And We gave understanding of it (to) Sulaiman, and (to) each We gave judgment and knowledge. And We subjected with Dawud the mountains (to) glorify Our praises and the birds. And We were the Doers.

24:41 Do not you see that Allah - glorify Him whoever (is) in the heavens and the earth and the birds (with) wings outspread? Each one verily knows its prayer and its glorification. And Allah (is) All-Knower of what they do.

27:17 And were gathered for Sulaiman his hosts of jinn and the men and the birds, and they (were) set in rows.

34:10 And certainly, We gave Dawood from Us Bounty. "O mountains! Repeat praises with him, and the birds." And We made pliable for him [the] iron,

38:18-19 Indeed, We subjected the mountains with him glorifying in the evening and [the] sunrise. And the birds assembled, all with him repeatedly turning.



إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

HP_TECH

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2017, 06:14:54 PM »
Peace, "hands speaking" if not allegoric tell us how "on this earth" -- those hands have mouths or perhaps Italian hands, capisci?
Io capisco perfettamente quel che vuoi dire. Dopo di tutto io sono proprio Italiano. Ma per dir la verità non è giusto per te da prendere in giro questa interpretazione mia senza aver verificato il Quran in un migliore modo. Sì le mani noi le usiamo molto quando parliamo, ma questa non è proprio la stessa cosa.
I didn't say "on this earth", I said Judgement Day.

Furthermore, I do not envision mouths on hands. Your imagination and spiritual vision is a bit limited. You are only used to communication being audible and speaking being vocalized in this life but that does not mean that it would be so in the case of hands and feet bearing witness.

As it is not the case for ants communicating with one another and not the case for Sulaiman PERCEIVING their communication (however he was given permission to perceive it).

6:38 وما and not من from دابه creature فى in الارض the land ولا and not طاىر ṭāirin/bird ىطىر yaṭīru/flyeth بجناحىه with wings two its الا except امم communities امثالكم like you ما not فرطنا neglect we of فى in الكتب the book من from شى thing ثم furthermore الى to ربهم lord theirs ىحشرون gathered being

Where does it say they understand human speech and know human names (i.e. strangers marching upon them) etc.,?

No, no, do not forget you and your lot insinuated that if the ant communicated as it did, then it would imply that ants recognize humans and know their names and can make distinction between soldiers and so forth. I never mentioned that ants could understand human speech nor does the Quran mention that. However, it does not mean that they cannot. We have no way of encompassing other creatures' consciousness. 

Like uq mentioned all creatures have ways for communication for different situations. Ants as well have their own method for communicating danger, attack, foraging etc...

Lastly, the part which you all who are denying it is exactly the miracle of the narration:
1) How did even such a minuscule creature know about Sulaiman?
2) How did Allah grant Sulaiman favor to PERCEIVE the communication of the ant to the others?

That's the point folks it is a clear miracle. Why does this much seem impossible to you.
Stop entertaining doubt. Your Lord is All-Able.
 
27:16... علمنا know we of (plural) منطق manṭiqa الطىر l-ṭayri

Who are the others (plural) mentioned in verse?
27:15 And verily, We gave Dawood and Sulaiman knowledge, and they said, "Praise be to Allah the One Who has favored us over many of His servants the believers."
27:16 And inherited Sulaiman Dawood. And he said, "O people! We have been taught (the) language (of) the birds, and we have been given from every thing. Indeed, this surely, it (is) the favor evident."

I don't understand the reason for your question. Sulaiman is addressing his people "O people"

Who was l-hud'huda that said all this 27:22-26?
Read Quran carefully
27:20-21
And he inspected the birds(l-tayra) and said, "Why not I see the hoopoe or is he from the absent?
I will surely punish him (with) a punishment severe or I will surely slaughter him unless he brings me a reason clear."


This is alhudhuda

Were ants mentioned, which word is languages?

Stop building strawman arguments for yourself. No one mentioned that Quran says that Dawood and Sulaiman were taught the language of ants. Stop attempting to build strawman arguments.
Ants are mentioned in 27:18. Sulaiman PERCEIVED the ant's speech and he smiled being amused by her speech.
It is as aforementioned a clear Sign, Miracle from your Lord and Favor from His Lord.
Peruse the word valley and fits perfectly in context: they came upon "the valley the ants" (i.e. the valley of underground dwellers); she sounded call "not realizing" he meant them no harm.

27:18 حتى until اذا when اتوا came they of على on واد wādi/valley النمل l-namli/the ants قالت said (f) نمله namlatun/ant (f) ىاىها O you النمل l-namlu/the ants ادخلوا enters ye of مسكنكم dwelling place yours لا not ىحطمنكم crushed you سلىمن Suleiman وجنوده and soldiers his وهم and they لا not ىشعرون realizing 

36 cities, largest housing 20,000 inhabitants, some are 400 meters (4 soccer fields) deep; 4,000+ years old.

http://sometimes-interesting.com/2014/05/09/derinkuyu-the-underground-cities-of-cappadocia/

So your only evidence is the word valley, which in fact fits perfectly well with the notion of the actual habitat of ants.
The period in history for such underground cities and Sulaiman's kingdom are not synchronous
The localities of the two are also not proximal.
Occam's razor still stands for your theory.


إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

mmkhan

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2017, 06:18:04 PM »
Maybe his kingdom was more advanced? Maybe he had an app for it?

Can't tell about ants at this time. They sure are a mystery still. Can't deny they are more complex and far more strategic than us humans but I heard some pets mentioning their owners' names. Needless to say the verse is speaking about female ant which can mean the queen of the hive. They are capable of living 30 years. Plus they say hive has its own mind. Not much has been studied about it despite simulation software available for it.

Salaamun,

As far as I understand the Arabic word alNaml is not referring to ants as well as alTayr is not referring to birds.
I might be wrong completely but I thing these are tribes which are referred as alNaml and alTayr in alQuraan.

6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

reel

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2017, 12:59:51 AM »
Salaamun,

As far as I understand the Arabic word alNaml is not referring to ants as well as alTayr is not referring to birds.
I might be wrong completely but I thing these are tribes which are referred as alNaml and alTayr in alQuraan.

Would be interesting to see the analysis. Looking forward to it.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2017, 06:03:41 AM »
I don't understand the reason for your question. Sulaiman is addressing his people "O people"

27:16  ىاىها O you الناس l-nāsu علمنا taught/know we (plural) of منطق manṭiqa الطىر l-ṭayri

Therefore "many" people were taught/had knowledge of manṭiqa l-ṭayri -- right?

HP_TECH

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2017, 08:46:29 AM »
27:16  ىاىها O you الناس l-nāsu علمنا taught/know we (plural) of منطق manṭiqa الطىر l-ṭayri

Therefore "many" people were taught/had knowledge of manṭiqa l-ṭayri -- right?

Not necessarily brother. If you have a point to make please go ahead.
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My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

mmkhan

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2017, 08:52:38 AM »
Would be interesting to see the analysis. Looking forward to it.

Salaamun reel,

Need a lot of time to get details.
I understood it based on aayaat that I have in mind with those words.
InshaAllah I will study and let you know the details.
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2017, 01:47:52 PM »
Not necessarily brother. If you have a point to make please go ahead.

Peace brother, that is basic when written نا nā/we (plural) not singular or dual rather "they" were taught/knew how to communicate via birds and l-hud'huda was spy (or perhaps his delivery bird) not far away sending notes back and forth.

Here is the entire episode for benefit of others although free to believe "they all" spoke with birds in human speech and vice versa and likewise ants or in magical numerology or flat earth nasa.gov conspiracy or whatever.





HP_TECH

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Re: Can Ants Talk?
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2017, 02:36:00 PM »
Peace brother, that is basic when written نا nā/we (plural) not singular or dual rather "they" were taught/knew how to communicate via birds and l-hud'huda was spy (or perhaps his delivery bird) not far away sending notes back and forth.
Okay that's fine but the hoopoe did not send notes back and forth. It only delivered one letter to the queen after surveying her kingdom.

Here is the entire episode for benefit of others although free to believe "they all" spoke with birds in human speech and vice versa and likewise ants or in magical numerology or flat earth nasa.gov conspiracy or whatever.

I still don't get the point you're trying to make. And what is the underlined sentence even about? Are we still having an intelligent discussion?
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful