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Will Jesus come back

Started by centi50, April 04, 2017, 01:14:18 AM

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Cerberus

I think Jesus left this world and is now with God. Not dead. So he made it and I fail to see why he could possibly come back to this earth. God knows best.

From Quran: "Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of GOD, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive."

Also,

*Being alive doesn't necessarily mean being on earth, perhaps there is a better form of living, with God.
**We're all bound to leave this earth, leave this body of ours as well.


Rumi said:"This world of existence resembles a womb; haven't you wondered about all of this blood?"

So I think he is alive and well.

good logic

Yes Cerberus,Jesus the real person(Soul) is alive at GOD s.
GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Aries

Quote from: good logic on April 18, 2017, 03:57:59 AM
Peace virginia.
Sister both of us have claims that readers need to check for themselves .
These are other "claims",quote:
Historicity

The baptism of Jesus and his crucifixion are considered to be two historically certain facts about Jesus.[9][10] James Dunn states that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent" and "rank so high on the 'almost impossible to doubt or deny' scale of historical facts" that they are often the starting points for the study of the historical Jesus.[9] Bart Ehrman states that the crucifixion of Jesus on the orders of Pontius Pilate is the most certain element about him.[11] John Dominic Crossan states that the crucifixion of Jesus is as certain as any historical fact can be.[12] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[13] Craig Blomberg states that most scholars in the third quest for the historical Jesus consider the crucifixion indisputable.[4] Christopher M. Tuckett states that, although the exact reasons for the death of Jesus are hard to determine, one of the indisputable facts about him is that he was crucified.[14]
While scholars agree on the historicity of the crucifixion, they differ on the reason and context for it. For example, both E. P. Sanders and Paula Fredriksen support the historicity of the crucifixion but contend that Jesus did not foretell his own crucifixion and that his prediction of the crucifixion is a "church creation" (p. 126).[15] Geza Vermes also views the crucifixion as a historical event but provides his own explanation and background for it.[15]
John P. Meier views the crucifixion of Jesus as historical fact and states that, based on the criterion of embarrassment, Christians would not have invented the painful death of their leader.[16] Meier states that a number of other criteria, e.g., the criterion of multiple attestation (i.e., confirmation by more than one source) and the criterion of coherence (i.e., that it fits with other historical elements) help establish the crucifixion of Jesus as a historical event.[17]
Although almost all ancient sources relating to crucifixion are literary, the 1968 archeological discovery just northeast of Jerusalem of the body of a crucified man dated to the 1st century provided good confirmatory evidence that crucifixions occurred during the Roman period roughly according to the manner in which the crucifixion of Jesus is described in the gospels.[18] The crucified man was identified as Yehohanan ben Hagkol and probably died about 70 AD, around the time of the Jewish revolt against Rome. The analyses at the Hadassah Medical School estimated that he died in his late 20s. Another relevant archaeological find, which also dates to the 1st century AD, is an unidentified heel bone with a spike discovered in a Jerusalem gravesite, now held by the Israel Antiquities Authority and displayed in the Israel Museum.[19][20]


You know I favour one s own research (17:36) in all that is claimed .
GOD bless you.
Peace

Peace good logic

Thanks for your advice, you are absolutely right, but i have read a lot since the "third quest" is one of my favorite topics. There is too much to quote actually. In any case,  Any reasearch admiting "Jesus historicity" is based on
1. The existance of Pilatus
2. The fact that Romans crucified
3. Some doubful bones discovery
4. Doubtfull interpolations in few sources

There is not ctually any non christian source to prove his existance or crucifixion and the scholars you quote do not give any except that of Flavius Josephus which i previoysly referred. There is not even any reference of Nazareth until the appearance of the Evangelion. It all is tradition, not historical evidence.

Please check further and critically your sources to find out that the evidence claimed are mere suppositions, traditions and rumors arrived to Rome between the II AD century and the adoption of Christianism as the official religion of the Empire.

There is no evidence for historical facts and events concerning Jesus.

God bless you
:sun:

good logic

Thank you sister.
I believe the "Jesus" of Qoran existed as a certainty. Qoran is the only truth to me so far.
But your point is taken.I agree more research is required until we uncover some truth.
Can we uncover all the truth?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Aries

Quote from: good logic on April 18, 2017, 05:13:19 AM
Thank you sister.
I believe the "Jesus" of Qoran existed as a certainty. Qoran is the only truth to me so far.
But your point is taken.I agree more research is required until we uncover some truth.
Can we uncover all the truth?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

As you, brother, I believe all the truth and details we need about Isa are explained in Qur'an  :yes everything else (specially Jesus) is just speculation   :peace:

huruf

All the truth no. Ony God knows all, and what He knows he knows with absolute certainty.

But if we take the Qur'an as unerring, we must face what it says and forget any other things we might have absorbed as a result of whatever.

On the other hand, I think a great injustice is done to Christianity if it is taken not as a redeeming spiritual vision and teaching, but as historical facts. It teaches spiritual facts, we know them all with our hearts. Christ's passion is a fact of life, resurrection in a spiritual sense is a fact of life. It is not something that happened on such a date and year. It always happens. It is the fight to establish itsef as a temporal power what has made of christinity a mockery of its core. Which in itself is the core of any religion based on the highest truth. It is a temptation for all religions to dither on the edge of human usefulness for spiritual purposes and human usefulness for worldly purposes.

This spiritual christianity is the one upheld by many christians and ignored or despised by others, who consider themselves chosen people or civilised people. If they are not good people christianity has done nothing for them.

?Can you imagine the shock, for instance of the Precortesian Indians who did believe in our return to God, and based on it the human dignity, when they were told that their salvation depended on a man who was born in such and such a date and so on?

Christianity has no date if it is truthful. If not, it is no more than fairy tales. And in fact its narrative part is akin to fairy tales as was the case with other older religions. Teachings are transmitted through stories, which do not need to be factually true, but which however transmit truthful teachings. Some of that may also be in Qur'an. But when Qur'an gives something as fact we know that it is a fact.

So we do know that it is fact that there was a historical calumny on Maryam, we do know as a fact that 3isa was honoured in this life and that he was made to dwell on a high land with his mother with running waters. No Joseph for 3isa in the Qur'an. Wouldn't he be have been mentionned at some point, specially when we are told that God made 3isa and his mother dwell on such and such place?

I think we must be conscious of what we are handling when reading. Tales with moral or spiritual teachings? Events?

Historically, I think, many Muslims, not all of course, and may be much fewer than what happens now, have had the Qur'an buried in tales alien to it and so buried its teachings. The most egregious example is Maryam. A complete unknown.

Those Muslims of the past were safer, because they still lived in a time where tales were widely used for teaching and entertainment purposes and everybody knew what to take them for, but many religious tales of the past are being taken now for real events, however unplausible. That again, does  not mean we have to reject as a tale everything we do not understand, but we must be thourough and objective and if we do not know and speculate realise and accept that that is what we do, and there is nothing wrong with it, if we take it for what it is. That is a way to study quite legitimate, but keep our records straight.

Salaam, good logic, my regards

good logic

Thank you sisters.
GOD bless you both.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

EdQ

As a Hadithist, I used to think Jesus would come back.

As a Quran-only Muslim, I frankly don't really care, despite my love for The Christ like my love for all prophets.

The Quran does not tell me clearly if he will come back or not.

What the Quran tells me again and again and again is to serve and love God - to be righteous and love mankind. 
So I am not going to worry about if Jesus will come back - I will meet him in the hereafter anyway if I am good in this lower life!

Salam
Ed
Come, let us worship the ONE GOD Alone.

owlwithbow

Quote from: huruf on April 16, 2017, 07:37:50 AM
On this I am sure Jesus of the Gospels, if there was ever that real person, is not 3isa of the Qur'an. Therefore no crucifixion no persecuting to death.

Spiritually, Christiaity with the crucifixion and the Calvary is real. That is what has been done to many people in real life all through history, and the resurrection tells us that no matter how much humiliated we may be we can raise throughGod's mercy to life and heaven. That is a spiritual message that many Christians understand, but it is no historical account. It is an account of reality but not historical.

TheQur'an on the other hand speaks of a real 3isa, born of single woman and who was dignified "wajihan" in thislife and in the other life.

3isa is not the Jesus in the gospels although many of the things he said may have been picked up in the gospels as many spiritual messages from all times have been picked up all the time by other people after them.

Therefore 3isa indeed may have been raised to God, all prophets are. That does not mean they do not die like any other people, I think there is an aya to that effect that all prophets have died.

Salaam

If you don't read the Gospel and pray to God to answer your questions, you won't understand what "they didn't crusify him nor kill him, but it appeared like that for them" means.

So..

It appeared to them, that they crusified and killed the Messiah. The Romans and enemies among the Jews and the Pharisees thought that they crusified him, and killed him, because they accused him from being an idolator and rebel who wanted to hijack the empire of Rome, just like the Gospel testified. But they didn't realise that they can't kill the soul, and even hes body since Jesus was resurrected three days later from the death by God, and was taken to Heaven by Angels.

The whole thing about him coming back is based on some verse in the Gospel, example, the one, about the Angels who took him, told them that they will see him descending from Heaven just like they saw him ascending into Heaven to go and sit at the Right Hand of God.

"Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of GOD, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive."

You actually now see why the ahadith doctrines are a lie. It's not just a feeling. But they actually failed and now are exposed. They say the "it appeared like that for them", means that Judas was changed into Jesus and that it was Judas who was actually crusified and killed. But that contradicts the Gospel, since Judas was already dead because he murdered himself because he betrayed Jesus.
That's my ticket to be 100% sure that the ahadith doctrines are just a lie, made up to control people. Since the death of Jesus was already prophecied in many earlier Scriptures.

This whole Jesus didn't die, sunni discussion is just a lie. They the Saudis and Wahhabis want to withold the people from the Truth that was ALSO sent down in Previous Scriptures.

I 100% believe in the Arabic Quran, Greek Injeel, and Hebrew Zabur and Tawrat we have today on earth. And i wouldn't want to believe in any human being who would tell me not to believe in them since Gods Word is the Highest.
One God, many different Messengers, but One Message.

Zerly

from my understanding ... Jesus the son of Mary (PBUH) ...was praising Allah 24 seven... Allah told him .. there are people the follower of the Prophet who praise me and there rewards is so great.. So Jesus Asked Allah can i be the follower of the prophet.... the second coming is near he never died..... When Jesus return to earth no repentance will be accepted from the believers and no reversion to Islam from disbelievers will be accepted.... so search fro the truth before it is too late....peace.