Author Topic: The bible corrupted?  (Read 11052 times)

farati

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The bible corrupted?
« on: February 11, 2017, 04:31:31 AM »
Hello,

I have a question. Does the Quran say that the previous scriptures are corrupted? If yes, then why  the Quran instruct to refer to them?
Also, the dead sea scrolls show there is little difference between the bible today and the one that is 2000 years old.

This article confused me a lot.:

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Corruption_of_Previous_Scriptures_(Qur'an_2:79)

runninglikezebras

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 05:30:53 AM »
I understand your confusion.  It's a natural result if one is unaware of the hidden history of the origins of Islam.

The contradicting statements on Jews, Christians and their scripture inside Quran can only be understood when one understands the true history of Islam.

Arabs and Jews were once allied in the early days of Islam (even though there was no faith called Islam back then, nor did they call themselves muslims).  In early islamic history, they collaborated to retake Jerusalem among others. 

At some point in history the Arabs turned against their judeo-christian allies.  This led to the self-contradicting statements inside Quran. The Quranic text was manipulated by later authors to try to textually confirm this schism but did a poor job resulting in the confusing and self-contradicting statements we find today in Quran.

Btw, I disagree the dead sea scrolls confirm the Bible was unaltered.  I think you are misunderstanding the DSS.  Some of the DSS repeat Old Testament texts.  The Bible however is a compilation of multiple books (not only the Old testament) which has changed a lot over time, just like the Quran.

The DSS shed a new light on the history of Islam.  The judeo-nazarene elements found inside the DSS can still be found in Islam and Quran today.  As I understand it, Islam sprung from judeo-nazarism.  Judeo-nazarism itself was a reaction on a judeo-christian faith that was being hijacked by Rome and turned into a gentile/universal faith.  Judeo-nazarenes heavily insisted on the Law (Thora) and didn't allow anyone to speak about the faith when they weren't circumcized or respected the dietary laws (among others). 

These judeo-nazarens were oppressed by Byzantine Romans.  Chased out of Palestine and Syria (see destruction of the Qumran site and the reason why they hid their texts in caves), they fled to the south, indoctrinated their Arab neighbours (see waraqa).  Forged an alliance to retake Jerusalem and Temple Mount from the Byzantine Romans.  Because of internal conflict the allliance broke, led to a schism with the Jews and Christians - resulting in a Quranic text which both speaks good and bad about Jews and Christians and their scriptures.

Man of Faith

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 06:57:02 AM »
Islam is a Jewish (Persian) invention. The Arabs broke loose and formed their own sect (Sunni Islam) of the sect while there was a schism which turns out to be that Shia sect although Shia was conjectured together later. These Jews were as you say allied in ways, rallied by Persian clergymen and why the annexation of Persia was simple due to already present infiltration alternatively indoctrination.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

runninglikezebras

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 07:29:49 AM »
@MoF I disagree early Islam was Jewish.  I repeat they were a judeo-christian more specifically judeo-nazarene sect in origin.  I can easily prove this to you with archaelogical evidence.

See this inscription at the Baths of Hammat Gader/Gadara dated 662-63 CE:



Notice the christian cross (top left corner)?  This is a christian symbol.  There is no way a jewish ideology would use a cross symbol.

More evidence?

Check this "islamic" coin:



Again the cross symbol.  Are you saying a Jewish ideology would mint coins with a christian cross on it?   :rotfl:

If this isn't sufficient evidence for you... just look at the inscription on the dome of the rock.  Ever seen a jewish inscription speaking of the messiah Jesus son of Mary?    ::)

Concerning the rapid conquest of Persia this is historically explained by the instability of the Sassanid Empire during that time. 

Aries

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 09:54:45 AM »


See this inscription at the Baths of Hammat Gader/Gadara dated 662-63 CE:



Notice the christian cross (top left corner)?  This is a christian symbol.  There is no way a jewish ideology would use a cross symbol.

Running... This particular claim falls by itself. The baths of Gader were ROMAN not jews and they were used by BYZANTINE rich people specially during the VII century AC. when they became popular.

There are greek inscriptions with poems and salutations to the emperor's wife. Jews did not rule Israel in VII. And the baths already existed having beig built by romans.  It is PERFECTLY normal to find Greek inscriptions (with cross or not).  Byzantio had accepted Christianism.

runninglikezebras

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »
Running... This particular claim falls by itself. The baths of Gader were ROMAN not jews and they were used by BYZANTINE rich people specially during the VII century AC. when they became popular.

There are greek inscriptions with poems and salutations to the emperor's wife. Jews did not rule Israel in VII. And the baths already existed having beig built by romans.  It is PERFECTLY normal to find Greek inscriptions (with cross or not).  Byzantio had accepted Christianism.

You are mistaking.  These buildings were damaged by an earthquake and restored in 633 by the Umayyad caliph who ruled from Damascus.  The inscription reads:

In the days of the servant of God Muʿāwiya (abdalla Maavia), the commander
of the faithful (amēra almoumenēn) the hot baths of the
people there were saved and rebuilt
by ʿAbd Allāh son of Abū Hāshim (Abouasemou), the
governor, on the fifth of the month of December,
on the second day (of the week), in the 6th year of the indiction,
in the year 726 of the colony, according to the Arabs (kata Arabas) the 42nd year,
for the healing of the sick, under the care of Ioannes,
the official of Gadara.

This inscription is not Roman but Ummayad.

Man of Faith

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2017, 07:57:27 AM »
@MoF I disagree early Islam was Jewish.  I repeat they were a judeo-christian more specifically judeo-nazarene sect in origin.  I can easily prove this to you with archaelogical evidence.

See this inscription at the Baths of Hammat Gader/Gadara dated 662-63 CE:



Notice the christian cross (top left corner)?  This is a christian symbol.  There is no way a jewish ideology would use a cross symbol.

More evidence?

Check this "islamic" coin:



Again the cross symbol.  Are you saying a Jewish ideology would mint coins with a christian cross on it?   :rotfl:

If this isn't sufficient evidence for you... just look at the inscription on the dome of the rock.  Ever seen a jewish inscription speaking of the messiah Jesus son of Mary?    ::)

Concerning the rapid conquest of Persia this is historically explained by the instability of the Sassanid Empire during that time.

I agree that Persia was a weak empire, but the conquerors were Persians in origin themselves. Their faith perception created Islam. The reason of the assimilators being Persians may have aided the annexation and the phenomenon called Muhammed bringing back "true religion" amidst spiritual chaos.

Islam is anti-christian, adherents of that would hardly have conjured Islam. It is also opposing a certain variation of Judaism, and you could therefore say it is an offshoot of Judaism which was radical minded and obsessed with only God so much it blinded their judgment. They made a separation between Creator and Creation that the other groups had made into one. So Islam is in essence a dualism, a creation existing besides God while ancient Judaism, the group the Islamists assaulted, were thinking Creator and Creation was a symbiosis of sort. This is what "sons of God" comes from which the Islamists did not understand while under the flag of Islam which means being healthy and sound.

The sect called Pharisees might as well be the group resulting in Islam which adherents had opposed the challenge of their traditions which much resemble Islam. It is where I would say: "Pharisees = Persians". Even the tendency to shift between Fe and Pe in saying Fars or Pars is a nice indicator.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

EdQ

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2017, 04:49:14 AM »
Hello,

I have a question. Does the Quran say that the previous scriptures are corrupted? If yes, then why  the Quran instruct to refer to them?
Also, the dead sea scrolls show there is little difference between the bible today and the one that is 2000 years old.

This article confused me a lot.:

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Corruption_of_Previous_Scriptures_(Qur'an_2:79)

The Quran does refer to the Injeel and the Torah - not necessarily to the Bible.  At least not to the Bible that we have in our hands today.

Firstly the Gospel parts of the Bible were written by Mark, Matthew etc - and not by Jesus.  That's why there are different versions of the Gospel ...... according to ......X or Y.

Secondly, one could potentially find the original work of Mark and the others in geographical digs, but that still does not prove that what is found is the original version of the Injeel.

Personally I do have the King James Version  of the Bible and read it - but for example the part where it says that God (the all powerful) needs to rest in this Bible is a clear contradiction about the omnipotence of God and it proves that there have been changes to the Bible (in the least).

Come, let us worship the ONE GOD Alone.

Aladin

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2017, 06:43:24 AM »
Does any of ayets ordered Muslims to take huden (guidance) from Injeel or Tewrat?

Even it's too obvious, Injeel and Tewrat are huden and kitab (set of laws) only for Beni Israil and nations from them. None of Muslims should follow anything from those two.

Form of the Qur'an is different then Tewrat or Injeel. Tewrat is totally explained (fa-sad-lam) and one can read it from its start to the end and get his huden. Injeel is specific, because Allah's Words in El-Mesih a.s. were spoken in alegories then explained in detail (fa-sad-lam), same as in Tewrat. This is because some of the creatures can get huden only from something obvious, w/o using deduction.

The language of the Qur'an is specific, because it's impossible to understand it w/o using deduction. With deduction ayets of the Qur'an are enriched (kaf-ra-mim). None of Beni Israil was invited to follow the Qur'an alone, because they can't understand it. They should take from the Qur'an only informations about what was changed (edited) in huden they have, these ayets are fully explained (fa-sad-lam) and can be understood by any sane person.

Injeel and Tewrat are not corrupted, because there is musaddaq (informer about their truth), which is the Qur'an. But, Injeel and Tewrat w/o informations about them in the Qur'an will misguide Beni Israil in many situations.
el-insan + el-jaann = ins

huruf

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Re: The bible corrupted?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2017, 08:31:28 AM »
Not even christians consider the Bible the word of God, they say it is an inspired collection of books, not revelation itself or the word of God. Some of its contents, yes, they believe it may be the word of God, but the books as such are not. That is what the followers of the Bible think and believe.

When in a muslim forum some people try to equate those books with the Qur'an, it is really preposterous and redolent of coloniser mindset.

Salaam